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Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: Sitka deer] #14314667 11/26/19
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Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by AlaskaCub
Originally Posted by rost495
Preservation always bothers me. But then again I think some areas should remain roadless. And in Alaska should be ATVless for sure. They and the laziness or get a moose etc.. at any cost just bothers me. But I like peace and quiet. Never would hunt anything other than wilderness in CO after the first trip


I’ll never understand why people think like this. Alaska is the size of 4 western states. If you want to hike where there are no people just close your eyes and stick your finger on a map and go for it. But to say that people shouldn’t be able to use atv’s to access hundreds of sq miles of land because you don’t like atv’s blows my mind. Just don’t hike at trailheads that allow access to atv’s and you’ll never hear them. Hunting animals that are huge and saying that if you can’t backpack it out you aren’t a hunter is just [bleep] stupid. Especially when the animal will go bad or get eaten by predators before you can complete the job.

I"m still learning, you'll have to give me that. But where I see ATV access, it gets worse and worse. Trails get closer and closer until you can almost wave at each other as they pass. Where we used to walk in and never see or barely hear, it looks more like a checkerboard

But trust me I'm working my way away from those areas.

And I constantly forget that folks are out there getting their meat, not hunting, so don't care about the experience. Sarcasm still says you know that spike fork is so cheap to harvest... LOL.

Anyway I can't help but learn as I go.

But then again I see quite a bit of AK, and find that anywhere a decent size plane can land these days ATVs are all over the place.

I should just get used to progress. And be thankful I"m even allowed to play in AK.

Maybe one of these days my opinions will be correct.

And I hear you on size and packing. limits how far we'll hike on moose for sure.



You do realize that forcing everybody to use the few trails available forces everybody into very small areas and leads to exactly what you seem to dislike... what about spreading them out a bit? A single road through the Alaska Range from Talkeetna, say to Dillingham would be a great start...


Someone’s drinking earlier than normal. The guys at the fly shop are right. You’re [bleep] crazy.

BP-B2

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14349517 12/07/19
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If the decision is made to log it should be with the provision that any timber sale must be made at a net profit to we owners. To subsidize on any level is pure corporate welfare.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14349848 12/08/19
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I think we need a few nuclear power plants spread out around the state to help these people from the lesser 48 that want to bring their misguided ideas to settle our state. I don't care if they f***up their own state, just leave us alone!

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14351037 12/08/19
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Clear cutting followed with some proven reclamation efforts can be just fine and provide forage/diversity etc in expansive and heavily canopied landscapes. Western Oregon's black tail deer and elk hunting has fallen off considerably with the reductions in cuts over the last couple decades. They can also become enduring and devastated, impassible, slash covered sites with soil slips and serious erosion issues if not properly engineered and reclaimed. Nothing wrong at all if interested parties keep an eye on things and insist on proper management.

Same applies for landscape level wildfires, as they generate large even age stands as well. With some species Mother Nature comes through with near instantaneous regeneration on her own (like lodge pole pine around here). Ponderosa pine, however, might need some replanting for a quick start. Not too familiar though with the boreal forest species up there.

Last edited by 1minute; 12/08/19.

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Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: rost495] #14352095 12/08/19
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Originally Posted by rost495
All I can say is there is no food for the animals we desire in a forest.

Nature rebounds so easily.

Personally I'd worry much more about not allowing road/trail access after a cutting than the cutting itself.

Watching em roller chop large sections for grouse habitat I'm just always amazed how quickly nature revives herself.



As a grouse hunter and sometimes deer hunter anymore I don't mind checkerboard clear cutting. It opens sterile forest to become wildlife-thriving areas full of forbs, grasses, and shrubs for feed. The un-logged adjacent areas provide essential cover.


Hunt with Class and Classics

"Doing nothing is hard. You never know when you're done"

“If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.”





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Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: watch4bear] #14352309 12/08/19
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Originally Posted by watch4bear
Tell us of your extensive degree, post some certificates of training, list awards, and post picture of desk and chair.



Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Which is why you're such a dumbazz........


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: Sitka deer] #14352348 12/08/19
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Art,
Roads hurt hunting more than help it in the long run.

Federal land is federal land--everybody gets a say. That's like saying only the residents in San Diego can say how to operate the USS Reagan. Or only the residents in Anchorage can dictate deployment and operations at Elmendorf--which is where I was stationed in the late 70's before most of the "Alaskans" on this thread moved to the Great White North.


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: alpinecrick] #14353553 12/08/19
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Originally Posted by alpinecrick

Art,
Roads hurt hunting more than help it in the long run.

Federal land is federal land--everybody gets a say. That's like saying only the residents in San Diego can say how to operate the USS Reagan. Or only the residents in Anchorage can dictate deployment and operations at Elmendorf--which is where I was stationed in the late 70's before most of the "Alaskans" on this thread moved to the Great White North.

Speaking in absolutes is absolutely wrong.

The Federal gov promised to turn over many millions of acres to the State under the 1959 Statehood compact. They have given us a tiny fraction of that land. They allowed Native groups to cut the heart out of the promised land and the State still has not gotten much. They allowed the largest conversion of Federal lands to Parks and untouchable units before we got lands promised decades earlier. There is zero reason to allow others to tell us how to manage State lands and until we get our promised lands.

Like it or not, being unable to access AK without significant expense, risk, time investment, and effort has left us chewing up a fair amount of AK by overuse while vast tracts see virtually no use. It is absolutely a quality issue and we do not care how it is done outside.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14356419 12/09/19
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Log Colorado first, then we'll worry about AK.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: watch4bear] #14357734 12/10/19
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Originally Posted by watch4bear
Quote
Spent three years of my life on the Uncompahgre and then the Montrose District BLM



I knew it; an office boy grin


W4B must be a tree planter. no wonder he's grumpy, his back hurts!


Originally Posted by jorgeI
...Actually Sycamore, you are sort of right....
IC-B

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14359743 12/10/19
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Earth 1st ..we will clear cut the other planets later!


This beer taste like I'm not going to work tomorrow......🥁
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: cwh2] #14360318 12/10/19
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Originally Posted by cwh2
Log Colorado first, then we'll worry about AK.


That was mean.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14360371 12/11/19
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I just meant the federal lands in Colorado. We all get a vote.

And mostly I'm just messing with alpine as I know he means well and we just disagree on this point. I also get it, that it is flip-flopped from most places.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: cwh2] #14360390 12/11/19
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Originally Posted by cwh2
I just meant the federal lands in Colorado. We all get a vote.

And mostly I'm just messing with alpine as I know he means well and we just disagree on this point. I also get it, that it is flip-flopped from most places.

You're so sensitive these days.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: ironbender] #14360677 12/11/19
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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by cwh2
I just meant the federal lands in Colorado. We all get a vote.

And mostly I'm just messing with alpine as I know he means well and we just disagree on this point. I also get it, that it is flip-flopped from most places.

You're so sensitive these days.


That was much better. Kind and compassionate.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: KC] #14362929 12/11/19
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Both of ya GFY.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: cwh2] #14363002 12/11/19
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That's more like what I've come to expect from you Alaska assh*les.

Too much kindness might cause a disruption in the space/time continuum.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: smokepole] #14363121 12/11/19
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Originally Posted by smokepole
That's more like what I've come to expect from you Alaska assh*les.

Too much kindness might cause a disruption in the space/time continuum.

I was being sarcastic, ya jackwagon!


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: atvalaska] #14363453 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by atvalaska
Earth 1st ..we will clear cut the other planets later!


I knew the guy who started that bumper sticker in the 80’s—I still have one.
And I don’t care who you are, it is funny......


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Re: Clear Cutting in the Tongas and Chugas Natl Forest [Re: pabucktail] #14363699 12/12/19
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Originally Posted by pabucktail
Its pretty easy to see the economics of old growth logging don't add up anymore, those trees benefit a greater number of people and the ecosystem when left standing. But existing roads should be maintained for recreation access and second growth logging. Perhaps the greatest joke of all is native corporations raping and trashing their holdings and then being allowed to trade the feds for more land to do it all over again while leaving the mess of habitat restoration to the taxpayer.

I saw the last part of your post first hand, I cut timber on Long Island in 1989.

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