I am not sure what to say first, so I'll start with that I am not a troll, nor did my account get hacked. I guess I was too presumptive, assuming people here pay attention to various sources, that I wouldn't need to start from scratch. And I apologize for not posting more, I had some work to get done today and I really didn't think this thread would blow up like it did.
I try to not be political on the internet as, well, this thread exemplifies, it's hardly ever productive. I started this thread out of frustration of what I see going on in D.C.. The tribal, "win at all cost", truth be damned, tone. No matter where we may sit on the impeachment topic, you've got to be disheartened as an American by the behavior there. I may see good reason to impeach, but that in no way means that I endorse the democratic party's strategies or rhetoric. Say it with me: Both sides are guilty. Casting lies back upon other liars just doesn't work. At some point, hopefully, electees, have to say enough, take a good look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable work for the success of the country instead of their re-election.
I'll try to address some of the other points raised in my direction. Regarding Biden, I am all for investigating him. Crucify him, disqualify him from running again, but whatever he did, it still doesn't excuse what Trump's done. What has Trump done? The two items I listed on page 3. Soliciting help from a foreign entity for personal gain (even disregarding Ukraine for the moment, he's asked Russia and China to investigate his political rivals). More concerning, however, he also obstructed the House's constitutional role of oversight. I do understand Executive Privilege, it is important but it does not supersede the fundamental design of a checked government. No other body has the responsibility to hold the President accountable via impeachment than the House of Representatives. If the Executive can deny the House from investigating him, then we do not have a checked Executive branch and our Constitution is violated.
Criminal charges are not required to impeach. A quid pro quo is not required to impeach. I don't know what constitution some people are following here.
Presidents asking foreign governments for personal favors most certainly did not happen since the beginning of time. Giving aid with strings attached for the benefit of the United States, definitely. But for personal gain, that's completely different and can not be confused with. If they did, please share and let's take care of them too.
The House is operating under the processes set when the GOP had the majority there.
Alluding to facts and asking for an honest discussion . . . is that so inflammatory? If that gets your panties in a twist, I feel sorry for you.
Lastly, I find it telling when the major defense for Trump by the GOP is that we 'just don't know'; in the same manner as the tobacco industry denied the connection to lung cancer. Far too often, our own intelligence community, FBI investigations, non-political government officials (including Trump appointees) reach similar conclusions, for Trump, GOP allies, and biased commentators to just say, oh, that person didn't vote for Trump so their professional work is questionable or unbelievable; "No one really knows", or just flat out lies to keep their party voters hearing what they want to hear. There comes a point when you have to realize that the WWE is fake. I get that it may be all fun to believe, to fantasize about throwing people out of helicopters, but come on people. What level of behavior are we willing to pass on to the next President, which eventually won't be Trump.
............................Read my last post....................The Constitution is the final authority for determining impeachment....NOT YOUR OPINIONS and NOT what YOU consider as facts....
I totally agree. I can't impeach anyone. But I can read and listen to Trumps own words and decisions. Under impeachment investigation (protected process to the House by the Constitution) he stopped people from giving subpoenaed testimony, did he not???? That's not a matter of opinion.
....You are right. It is not a matter of opinion........But here again. you are apparently are not aware of "separation of powers" or "executive privilege" and how it relates CONSTITUTIONALLY to any sitting POTUS......A sitting POTUS under the Constitution of the US, can in fact, prohibit subpoenaed testimonies. He has THAT authority to do so.
Why? I suggest you do some research and find out for yourself as I did. Especially on "separation of powers" and how it works under the authority given to ANY sitting POTUS.
I am not sure what to say first, so I'll start with that I am not a troll, nor did my account get hacked. I guess I was too presumptive, assuming people here pay attention to various sources, that I wouldn't need to start from scratch. And I apologize for not posting more, I had some work to get done today and I really didn't think this thread would blow up like it did.
I try to not be political on the internet as, well, this thread exemplifies, it's hardly ever productive. I started this thread out of frustration of what I see going on in D.C.. The tribal, "win at all cost", truth be damned, tone. No matter where we may sit on the impeachment topic, you've got to be disheartened as an American by the behavior there. I may see good reason to impeach, but that in no way means that I endorse the democratic party's strategies or rhetoric. Say it with me: Both sides are guilty. Casting lies back upon other liars just doesn't work. At some point, hopefully, electees, have to say enough, take a good look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable work for the success of the country instead of their re-election.
I'll try to address some of the other points raised in my direction. Regarding Biden, I am all for investigating him. Crucify him, disqualify him from running again, but whatever he did, it still doesn't excuse what Trump's done. What has Trump done? The two items I listed on page 3. Soliciting help from a foreign entity for personal gain (even disregarding Ukraine for the moment, he's asked Russia and China to investigate his political rivals). More concerning, however, he also obstructed the House's constitutional role of oversight. I do understand Executive Privilege, it is important but it does not supersede the fundamental design of a checked government. No other body has the responsibility to hold the President accountable via impeachment than the House of Representatives. If the Executive can deny the House from investigating him, then we do not have a checked Executive branch and our Constitution is violated.
Criminal charges are not required to impeach. A quid pro quo is not required to impeach. I don't know what constitution some people are following here.
Presidents asking foreign governments for personal favors most certainly did not happen since the beginning of time. Giving aid with strings attached for the benefit of the United States, definitely. But for personal gain, that's completely different and can not be confused with. If they did, please share and let's take care of them too.
The House is operating under the processes set when the GOP had the majority there.
Alluding to facts and asking for an honest discussion . . . is that so inflammatory? If that gets your panties in a twist, I feel sorry for you.
Lastly, I find it telling when the major defense for Trump by the GOP is that we 'just don't know'; in the same manner as the tobacco industry denied the connection to lung cancer. Far too often, our own intelligence community, FBI investigations, non-political government officials (including Trump appointees) reach similar conclusions, for Trump, GOP allies, and biased commentators to just say, oh, that person didn't vote for Trump so their professional work is questionable or unbelievable; "No one really knows", or just flat out lies to keep their party voters hearing what they want to hear. There comes a point when you have to realize that the WWE is fake. I get that it may be all fun to believe, to fantasize about throwing people out of helicopters, but come on people. What level of behavior are we willing to pass on to the next President, which eventually won't be Trump.
............................Read my last post....................The Constitution is the final authority for determining impeachment....NOT YOUR OPINIONS and NOT what YOU consider as facts....
I totally agree. I can't impeach anyone. But I can read and listen to Trumps own words and decisions. Under impeachment investigation (protected process to the House by the Constitution) he stopped people from giving subpoenaed testimony, did he not???? That's not a matter of opinion.
Those subpoena's issued by the house were not legal subpoena's , they were purposely mislabeled to appear as subpoena's..... another key phrase.. executive privilege... educate yourself, if you people can't see this is political and not legal you are fuggin morons not worth the powder to blow you to hell and are a threat to a constitutional republic and all free men..... FOAD
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Did you answer the question as to whether or not Trump's public statement can be viewed as "evidence"?
...............Yep! I did....4 posts back. Video evidence as to justifying impeachment?
Asking for investigations within countries that are corrupt, is not an impeachable offense under the Constitution of the US.
In the broad sense of general corruption very true, but under a narrow view of asking for investigations about specifically the Biden's only, what he said could be impeachable. His statement said little about corruption in general and was clearly focused on Biden, a front runner and potential oponent of his in 2020.
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose. It was written to limit the power of government over the individual.
There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.
Based on the reaction to Trump's impeachment it is clear that you guys are just gonna hate when he's indicted by the New York District Attorney. Trump's attorneys are begging the Supreme Court not to let it happen but the Court may rule tomorrow not to accept his petition for review.
Gosh, I just hope Trump doesn't do anything to harm himself like Epstein did once he gets indicted. He's not very strong, you know.
If you knew jackshit about what was going on you would understand that Trump was calling on Ukraine to RESUME investigations into corruption involving Burisma and Biden's cokehead offspring. Those investigations began years ago, but Joe Biden himself pressured Ukraine into suspending those investigations and told them they had some hours to do so or else foreign aid money slated for Ukraine would be withheld (which interestingly enough is the tactic they falsely accuse Trump of using). There is videotape of Biden himself bragging about doing this.
Biden's status as a politician does not confer immunity from criminal investigation whether or not he's a presidential candidate.
Get your head out of your ass.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
Did you answer the question as to whether or not Trump's public statement can be viewed as "evidence"?
...............Yep! I did....4 posts back. Video evidence as to justifying impeachment?
Asking for investigations within countries that are corrupt, is not an impeachable offense under the Constitution of the US.
In the broad sense of general corruption very true, but under a narrow view of asking for investigations about the Biden's only, what he said could be impeachable. His statement said little about corruption in general and was clearly focused on Biden, a front runner and potential oponent of his in 2020.
........Whoa whoa whoa whoa.........COULD BE? COULD BE IMPEACHABLE?
Well Squidge......Either it is impeachable under the Constitution or it is not. There is NO narrow VIEW....This "COULD BE" BUSINESS is NOT good enough to justify impeachment.
Again! Leave your opinions at the door and focus ONLY on the Constitution of the US.
Again under article 2 of the US Constitution.... Any sitting POTUS has the authority to investigate any corruption within any foreign country REGARDLESS of whom that might be,,Biden or otherwise.........
Trump used his personal lawyer (Rudy) and his personal lawyer's cohorts to attempt to get a foreign government to commit an act for his personal benefit, not for the country's benefit. Rudy doesn't work for the government, doesn't have a security clearance and didn't have the formal backing of the Department of State or Department of Defense.
In fact, Rudy and his cohorts have either already been indicted in New York for their actions in this, or in the case of Rudy, will soon be.
Case closed. Trump used the power of the office for his benefit, not the country's. If his actions were for the benefit of the country he would have used official channels. Instead he used his personal attorney and his personal attorney's criminal cohorts.
I don't care.
I wouldn't care if the American government started pitching commies out of helicopters.
Trump did absolutely nothing illegal. But even if he had, I agree... I don't care. Commies are vermin.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
If you knew jackshit about what was going on you would understand that Trump was calling on Ukraine to RESUME investigations into corruption involving Burisma and Biden's cokehead offspring. Those investigations began years ago, but Joe Biden himself pressured Ukraine into suspending those investigations and told them they had some hours to do so or else foreign aid money slated for Ukraine would be withheld (which interestingly enough is the tactic they falsely accuse Trump of using). There is videotape of Biden himself bragging about doing this.
Biden's status as a politician does not confer immunity from criminal investigation whether or not he's a presidential candidate.
Get your head out of your ass.
........................."BIDEN'S STATUS AS A POLITICIAN DOES NOT CONFER IMMUNITY FROM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION WHETHER OR NOT HE IS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE."
Did you answer the question as to whether or not Trump's public statement can be viewed as "evidence"?
...............Yep! I did....4 posts back. Video evidence as to justifying impeachment?
Asking for investigations within countries that are corrupt, is not an impeachable offense under the Constitution of the US.
In the broad sense of general corruption very true, but under a narrow view of asking for investigations about specifically the Biden's only, what he said could be impeachable. His statement said little about corruption in general and was clearly focused on Biden, a front runner and potential oponent of his in 2020.
There is a transcript of the call. Please post excerpts in the call transcript that support your claim
Based on the reaction to Trump's impeachment it is clear that you guys are just gonna hate when he's indicted by the New York District Attorney. Trump's attorneys are begging the Supreme Court not to let it happen but the Court may rule tomorrow not to accept his petition for review.
Gosh, I just hope Trump doesn't do anything to harm himself like Epstein did once he gets indicted. He's not very strong, you know.
...Well Rolling Turds........Your predictions like Paddler's predictions have yet to come true.........You both are zero for hundreds........GREAT JOB IDIOT!
If you knew jackshit about what was going on you would understand that Trump was calling on Ukraine to RESUME investigations into corruption involving Burisma and Biden's cokehead offspring. Those investigations began years ago, but Joe Biden himself pressured Ukraine into suspending those investigations and told them they had some hours to do so or else foreign aid money slated for Ukraine would be withheld (which interestingly enough is the tactic they falsely accuse Trump of using). There is videotape of Biden himself bragging about doing this.
Biden's status as a politician does not confer immunity from criminal investigation whether or not he's a presidential candidate.
Get your head out of your ass.
Long read and a lot more information regarding Ukraine than you have seen.
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose. It was written to limit the power of government over the individual.
There is no believing a liar, even when he speaks the truth.
Those subpoena's issued by the house were not legal subpoena's , they were purposely mislabeled to appear as subpoena's..... another key phrase.. executive privilege... educate yourself, if you people can't see this is political and not legal you are fuggin morons not worth the powder to blow you to hell and are a threat to a constitutional republic and all free men..... FOAD
Can you cite a source for those subpoena's not being legal? I searched but can not find anything except it seems a lot of folks are taking them seriously. I did see that the latest decision on Don McGahn's subpoena . . . Trump's latest effort to block it failed. Notably, that is not even a subpoena under the impeachment role, which holds even more weight. Maybe you need to tell that judge to educate himself on executive privilege? Or just maybe, he understands the concept of checks and balances.
Where in the call transcripts are there impeachable violations by Trump ?
Refuse to answer the question as usual.
Not surprising you would source an anti American Marxist anti gun web site. I liked their article calling for the prosecution of American soldiers. What a clown
Originally Posted by Squidge
[align:right][/align]
Originally Posted by RiverRider
Originally Posted by Squidge
Does this count as "evidence"? If no, then why?
If you knew jackshit about what was going on you would understand that Trump was calling on Ukraine to RESUME investigations into corruption involving Burisma and Biden's cokehead offspring. Those investigations began years ago, but Joe Biden himself pressured Ukraine into suspending those investigations and told them they had some hours to do so or else foreign aid money slated for Ukraine would be withheld (which interestingly enough is the tactic they falsely accuse Trump of using). There is videotape of Biden himself bragging about doing this.
Biden's status as a politician does not confer immunity from criminal investigation whether or not he's a presidential candidate.
Get your head out of your ass.
Long read and a lot more information regarding Ukraine than you have seen.
