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Joined: Sep 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2006
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Here's how the Rem trigger lawsuits should've gone:
Rem lawyer: "Did you adjust the trigger either yourself or have someone do it for you?"
Plaintiff: "Yes".
Judge: "Case Dismissed" Exactly, once you touch it with a screwdriver it is no longer a Remington trigger it is your trigger.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,992 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,992 Likes: 2 |
Kenneth, bbrown and others - I just installed the trigger tech. no real problem other than poor lighting and older eyes.
Man....absolutely NO creep. One of those that the first pulls seems TOO light but is pretty friggin bad A**!
Merry Christmas fglks - stay safe and give the griping a rest....its Christmas. A-holes will still be here tomorrow :-)
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,938 Likes: 11
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,938 Likes: 11 |
Here's how the Rem trigger lawsuits should've gone:
Rem lawyer: "Did you adjust the trigger either yourself or have someone do it for you?"
Plaintiff: "Yes".
Judge: "Case Dismissed" Not arguing, but how would you propose the lawsuits should've gone had the Plaintiff answered "No"?
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,128
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
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Thinking Trigger Tech. Anyone recommend something else?
Trigger Tech was easier for me, only a "novice do it your selfer"to install than Timney.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,181 Likes: 3 |
Kenneth, bbrown and others - I just installed the trigger tech. no real problem other than poor lighting and older eyes.
Man....absolutely NO creep. One of those that the first pulls seems TOO light but is pretty friggin bad A**!
Sure beats them Walkers and X-Marks, don't it?? 
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Posts: 294
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 294 |
Kenjs1, I bought the “Special” with clear anodized body. Do you know what weight yours came in? The Special adjusts from 1-3.5 pounds, I will probably run it near 3.5 lbs. I will never forget the one and only misfire I ever had , it was the first day I ever gun hunted in my life. The first day of PA buck season in 1979 I hunted all day in driving rain with my dads 700 BDL in 7 mm that our friend had adjusted the trigger on. At dark I came back to the house and my father our best friend/hunting partner and I stood in the field and unloaded our rifles. When I pushed the safety off the rifle went off , thankfully I had the muzzle pointed at the ground. Dad and Fred were very calm and explained how it was important the muzzle was pointed safely. That changed my life, it could have easily been the end of hunting for me. Instead this year was my fortieth year of hunting and living the outdoor life, and I never touch a firearm without being 100% aware of the muzzle.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,616
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
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Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,616
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,616 |
Ok if these are a problem
I am starting to believe
For what ever reason the issue
I guess you have to wonder what others in your party or others hunting near are carring and what they have done
I have a lot of 700s
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,992 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,992 Likes: 2 |
Redneck- thought of reaching out to you before giving it a go as I am not the most confident of folks but like Kenneth said- took all of ten minutes or so. (Thanks Kenneth)
BBrown - I don't have a way pull scale to judge weight. TT says their triggers feel lighter than others with same lb\ft pounds. Guessing 2 lbs at outside most . The closest thing to compare the TT to is to say that it is as crisp and creepless as my CZ when using the set trigger. Thing just goes 'click' about the time you are thinking of beginning to squeeze. It isn't 'quite' as light as that but my first time pulling both either will give you a bit of a shock. It only takes a couple pulls to get used to either and I am leaving as is. Sorry I can't give you a number.
I already feel better and my son who will inherit this 6mm assisted - so even more of a bonding thing. He thinks it is awesome.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of
. Confucius
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,699
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
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OK, OK, you guys convinced me. Going to put a Trigger Tech on my .270 700. Looks like a great upgrade.
Bob
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,220 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,220 Likes: 5 |
Here's how the Rem trigger lawsuits should've gone:
Rem lawyer: "Did you adjust the trigger either yourself or have someone do it for you?"
Plaintiff: "Yes".
Judge: "Case Dismissed" Exactly, once you touch it with a screwdriver it is no longer a Remington trigger it is your trigger. Not if it is advertised as user adjustable with instructions on how to do so and you follow the instructions.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4 |
No one on this site is as big a fan of Remington firearms as I am, and despite all the negative publicity, I've always had good luck out of them.............until this morning. I have a Remington Model 7 Predator that I bought new in either 2008 or 09, not sure just know it was as soon as I found out about them being introduced. It's always been one of my favorite rifles, it's in 223 and a very good shooter. When I got it, I adjusted the trigger to 3-3 1/2 pounds, and it's been very consistent........and yes, I adjusted it properly.
About 3 years ago, I was shooting at a coyote one real cold morning, and when I flipped the safety off, the rifle fired. I was wearing gloves that morning, and thought I had put my finger on the trigger unknowingly. To be sure, I took the rifle apart, cleaned the trigger with gas, blew it clean with air, put it back together, and tried to get it to accidently fire probably 50 times, and it would not. I have used this rifle a bunch since then with zero problems.
Now, fast forward until last week. Took it out to check the zero, and the first time I went to fire it, it went off as soon as the safety was released......but again as before, the weather was cold and I had on gloves, so I suspected a light trigger pull and the fact that arthritis makes my fingers not have a lot sensitivity. Again, I took it apart, cleaned it good, checked the pull, and tried to make it go off again a number of times, and it didn't. Took it hunting yesterday morning, and checked it again several times, by pointing it upward with a loaded chamber and taking the safety off............and it never fired.
This morning, I went coyote hunting again, and having no luck, decided to shoot a crow. It went off again prematurely, and again, I had on gloves which made me think......but, I knew I had not put pressure on the trigger. So, I tried it a second time, finger nowhere near the trigger, and the rifle fired when I took the safety off.
I've got a bunch of Remington rifles, several with the Walker trigger, and have never had a problem until now. I don't like the XMark-Pro trigger, and have replaced most of mine either with a Timney or put in a spring from Ernie the Gunsmith. On this particular rifle, I know the trigger isn't full of oil and grime, and I know it was adjusted properly. I am going to replace it......today. I'll toss the old one, which is apparently a Walker style, as it's not the newer ones. I don't trust it anymore..........period. I still like my Remington rifles, and would buy another one day with no qualms whatsoever. But, I will no longer defend their trigger issue, and it is a major issue, as I can now personally attest. Were you using two fingers to push the safety forward? I did extensive testing on Walker triggers including the Model 7. I got several firing pin drops. All happened when I was moving the safety forward using my thumb and trigger finger. I filmed what happened to make sure of the problem. Here it is. The safety's are hard to move forward. To gain leverage my ring finger inadvertently touched the trigger which when set at just under three pounds dropped the firing pen easily. How many pounds of pressure does it take to push those safety's forward? On my Model 7 it takes 12 pounds of pressure. I never was able to get it to happen when using my thumb to push the safety forward and my finger out of the trigger guard.
Dog I rescued in January ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,265 Likes: 3 |
I'm the least experienced on this board, have the fewest rifles, but one really need not be an expert to weigh the risk vs cost, and when I have at my disposal a forum of thousands of experienced shooters, who for the last fifteen years cannot agree, the price of a Timney ain't all that much. .
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4 |
James, which Timney did you get and from where? Is it adjustable or not? Since viewing this thread, I've been looking at replacements and was leaning toward the Trigger Tech. I got the Elite Hunter for the 700, and it will adjust, at least the ones I've bought before did. The one for the Model 7 is their only offering for that model. It broke at 3 pounds out of the box. The only drawback is that you have to take off some of the stock and trigger guard in order to make it fit. I really wanted to try the Basix trigger, but they are very confusing as to what they will and will not fit on the Remingtons. I may give a Triggertech a try the next time. I went looking for a Triggertech and could not find out if they made one for a Model 7. Waiting for it to happen.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 2 |
James, which Timney did you get and from where? Is it adjustable or not? Since viewing this thread, I've been looking at replacements and was leaning toward the Trigger Tech. I got the Elite Hunter for the 700, and it will adjust, at least the ones I've bought before did. The one for the Model 7 is their only offering for that model. It broke at 3 pounds out of the box. The only drawback is that you have to take off some of the stock and trigger guard in order to make it fit. I really wanted to try the Basix trigger, but they are very confusing as to what they will and will not fit on the Remingtons. I may give a Triggertech a try the next time. I went looking for a Triggertech and could not find out if they made one for a Model 7. Waiting for it to happen. I have 3 Timney's on Model 7's. I like them, but they all required some fitting, both on the trigger guard and on the stock. Didn't take but about 15 minutes with a Dremel, but I wish someone made a drop-in for the 7 like they do for the 700. I hear the Triggertech is coming out with a trigger for the 7, but I wanted one now, and didn't want to wait.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 19,273 Likes: 2 |
No one on this site is as big a fan of Remington firearms as I am, and despite all the negative publicity, I've always had good luck out of them.............until this morning. I have a Remington Model 7 Predator that I bought new in either 2008 or 09, not sure just know it was as soon as I found out about them being introduced. It's always been one of my favorite rifles, it's in 223 and a very good shooter. When I got it, I adjusted the trigger to 3-3 1/2 pounds, and it's been very consistent........and yes, I adjusted it properly.
About 3 years ago, I was shooting at a coyote one real cold morning, and when I flipped the safety off, the rifle fired. I was wearing gloves that morning, and thought I had put my finger on the trigger unknowingly. To be sure, I took the rifle apart, cleaned the trigger with gas, blew it clean with air, put it back together, and tried to get it to accidently fire probably 50 times, and it would not. I have used this rifle a bunch since then with zero problems.
Now, fast forward until last week. Took it out to check the zero, and the first time I went to fire it, it went off as soon as the safety was released......but again as before, the weather was cold and I had on gloves, so I suspected a light trigger pull and the fact that arthritis makes my fingers not have a lot sensitivity. Again, I took it apart, cleaned it good, checked the pull, and tried to make it go off again a number of times, and it didn't. Took it hunting yesterday morning, and checked it again several times, by pointing it upward with a loaded chamber and taking the safety off............and it never fired.
This morning, I went coyote hunting again, and having no luck, decided to shoot a crow. It went off again prematurely, and again, I had on gloves which made me think......but, I knew I had not put pressure on the trigger. So, I tried it a second time, finger nowhere near the trigger, and the rifle fired when I took the safety off.
I've got a bunch of Remington rifles, several with the Walker trigger, and have never had a problem until now. I don't like the XMark-Pro trigger, and have replaced most of mine either with a Timney or put in a spring from Ernie the Gunsmith. On this particular rifle, I know the trigger isn't full of oil and grime, and I know it was adjusted properly. I am going to replace it......today. I'll toss the old one, which is apparently a Walker style, as it's not the newer ones. I don't trust it anymore..........period. I still like my Remington rifles, and would buy another one day with no qualms whatsoever. But, I will no longer defend their trigger issue, and it is a major issue, as I can now personally attest. Were you using two fingers to push the safety forward? I did extensive testing on Walker triggers including the Model 7. I got several firing pin drops. All happened when I was moving the safety forward using my thumb and trigger finger. I filmed what happened to make sure of the problem. Here it is. The safety's are hard to move forward. To gain leverage my ring finger inadvertently touched the trigger which when set at just under three pounds dropped the firing pen easily. How many pounds of pressure does it take to push those safety's forward? On my Model 7 it takes 12 pounds of pressure. I never was able to get it to happen when using my thumb to push the safety forward and my finger out of the trigger guard. I always use my thumb. I don't think it is an issue of so many pounds of pressure, as it is just a failure on the part of the trigger assembly.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4 |
I guess anything mechanical can fail. The reason I don't like Timney's has been their floating and changing pull on several Mauser's and two Springfield's I installed them on. The truth is I far prefer safety's that block the firing pin like both Mauser's and Springfield's. And if it take 10-15 pounds of pressure to move the safety that would seem to give the trigger at least some shaking when it stops, they are connected, possibly even enough force to slightly turn the whole trigger assembly, hmmmm.
Last edited by rickt300; 12/26/19.
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 294
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 294 |
The safeties are stiff and I normally use my thumb and trigger finger to ease it off rather than have it snap forward I guess it was always impressed on me as kid a deer would hear the click of the safety. This is a very interesting question I have never seen asked before ...
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,515 Likes: 4 |
Thinking about it, you are pushing the trigger assembly both downward and backward from one side when releasing the safety. The trigger assembly being held in place by two pins. If your engagement is pretty thin could this cause a problem?
Dog I rescued in January
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,203 Likes: 6 |
No. The problem arises when the safety does not lift the sear clear of the trigger (or sear connector). The thing is, if the safety lifts the sear clear by only a couple thousandths of an inch, the safety will function. However, it only takes a little wear on either the safety of the sear to create the condition under which the accidental discharges have occurred. This was exactly the case with those triggers which caused Remington to issue a recall back in the late seventies/early eighties. For whatever reason, safety cam out of spec, holes in the wrong place, sear out of spec, trigger lever out of spec, the safety did not cam the sear up far enough off the trigger. Consequently, with very little wear or deflection, the trigger would be set up to fail. Precisely the same situation exists on a number of triggers and rifles which rely upon safeties wh9ch cam the sear off the trigger or even those which cam the striker back off the sear. If the camming movement is not sufficient to clear the trigger and the trigger is pulled or jarred while the safety is engaged, the rifle will fire when the safety is disengaged. Even military Mausers, normally infallible, can be made to exhibit this same problem if some dumbas fits a safety improperly.
When Remington replaced the Walker trigger with the X-mark, they eliminated the sear connector (which was a superfluous piece anyway, and they added a secondary safety piece which would block trigger movement when the safety was engaged. This was not entirely successful because the potential for a poorly fitting safety or out of spec part could still result in a safety which would not lift the sear sufficiently. Also, since the sear engagement was still adjustable, along with pull weight and overtravel, it was still possible for an owner or unskilled 'smith to set the trigger up in such a way as to create an unsafe condition.
This was one reason Ruger went to the MKII version of the 77 and eliminated the tang safety. They also eliminated the opportunity for the owner to adjust the trigger and thus, prevent potential mistakes. The MkII lacks adjustment, cams the striker off the sear, and blocks the trigger. The trigger might not pull nice but, by golly, it's safe. GD
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