As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
Last edited by okie john; 01/17/20.
Originally Posted by Brad
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
80 TTSX and I"ve yet to see a deer that would walk away from a well placed shot.
For longer use, slow twist and heavier bullets. But the 80 ttsx will retain more weight than a cup and core 100.
I load it for a friend, and we are still waiting for a deer to make more than about 50 steps max.
an 80 soft or hollow point, a varmint bullet etc... thats the only thing that can go wrong as long as the driver steers it straight. Just like any other round out there.
I burned the bottom of a deer on a snap shot at about 300 the other day, only chance I had at a buck I wanted to get rid of. the magic 6.5 creed. But like ANY round, it was my fault for hitting to low... Would have been the same result even with my 458 win mag.
And to be honest, I think a bad shot with a TTSX even a gut shot, they work better than they should as long as you give the deer time. Though on a pure gut shot, I'd rather have an explosive type bullet if I knew I was going to screw up... but I digress.
243 has been killing deer since my first one in the 70s. Only screw ups have been my fault.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Being a lifelong deer hunting addict, I have heard more of the one that got away stories using a .243 than any other cartridge. I suppose some of it relates to using a too light for caliber bullet more intended for varmints which is much harder to do with the larger diameter bullets. I look at it sort of the same as I do a .410 shotgun for the kids and the experts. In a crowded public deer woods, deer are often on the move and shot opportunities and ideal angles are not always possible. Use enough gun for an exit wound, a large exit wound. A managed recoil factory load in a .308 or 7mm-08 would be a better light recoiling choice and have better resale potential.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
Any of your very light varmint bullets that are pushed at a very high velocity, such as v max or the Sierra 60 gr hollow pt will not get proper penetration without coming apart too quickly. As an example, my dad hunted fur for a living in the late70 s and early 80s using a 243. He shot piles of coyote s with the Sierra 60 gr hollow pt. Rarely did it leave an exit hole in coyotes, so there was no sewiing the hide.The bullet went in and violently expanded. No exit hole, and it left all the energy inside the coyote. Very lethal. The 70 grain nosler bt was tougher. I shot a lot of deer and black bears with it. But for a deer bullet the 95 gr nosler is tough to beat. It's tough enough to take out a shoulder and specifically designed for deer. There are other good bullets out there too. Just get one designed for deer and not varmits, and you will be very impressed with the 243. I have since went to a fast twist barrel and l ong, heavy bullets, but that is another story.
No reason a 243 or 6mm won't work on deer, main issue is operator error.
I have used 80, 85 and 100 grain Sierras, 95 grain Nosler Partitions, 87 grain Hornady BTHPand 100 grain Hornadys with complete satisfaction.
If hit right I cannot tell a dimes bit of difference with any of the above mentioned bullets. Have never had any issue killing deer with these bullets.
Not like an animal that is 250# on the heavy end takes much to kill.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 01/17/20.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Just about any time I've heard complaints from hunters about a failure with a .243, they admit that it was not a deer bullet used, or a bad shot. Most won't want to admit a bad shot.
I think a lot of it, and have killed quite a few deer with one, and a good hunting buddy will only use a .243. Just about any standard 100 grain bullet does good work.
How to avoid failures? Honestly, shoot em in the vitals just like you would with anything else.
Bullet weight and bullet constructions are 2 different things.
I also have heard a lot of storied about deer "getting away" after being hit with 243s. I have also hear a number of identical stories when the shot was made with a 30-06, several with 7MM mags and quite a few with 300 mags and one that got away after being hit with a 45-70.
Any bullet is bad to get hit with for the one getting hit. How bad depends on a lot of different things. But in my 1/2 century of killing things, the 2 factors that seem to be constant for the best kills are #1 straight penetration with an exit and #2 some degree of expansion or tumbling of the bullet.
The bullet must strike the game in the right place,and that "right place" is about what is inside the game, not a place on the hide. Bullet holes do the killing. The bullet is just a tool to make that hole.
So a bullet that doesn't go through the game at the angle is should can cause a lot of problems. All bullets can sometimes do weird things, but some do it a lot of the time, and some do it about 1 time in 5,000. The ones that break up badly and come apart are the ones that have the greatest percentage of bad results. As I said above, NO BULLET wound can be good for the animal of man hit, but the degree of how bad is variable. I have been hit myself 2 times by bullet and 2 times by fragments, and I am still writing this. Why? None of them were serious wounds because none were in the "right place" (wrong place for me)
In killing game, if you shoot a bullet that will go through and exit at the angle you need it to, and if you place the bullet at that spot and correct angle, you will kill cleanly in probably 99.5% of the shots regardless of what gun or cartridge you fire it from. There are oddities. But the REASON we can call them oddities is how rare they are. I had one last season in November. I killed a white tail with a 300 Savage and my 1st shot was perfect in where I placed it, broadside on the right side of the chest almost perfectly centered but the bullet went in about 2" and turned to the left 90 degrees and went through the deer almost the whole way, and was found about 1" from the skin in the right rear ham. Distance was about 160 yards and the bullet was a Nosler Ballistic Tip HUNTING (not the old BTs that were so prone to blow up) The deer ran about 80 yards after the hit and the next bullet was a head shot. My experience with the new BTs from mid velocity guns has been pretty good except for this one deer. Why? Only God knows.
A good strong bullet for killing deer becomes more important in my opinion, as the bullet gets smaller. I have owned two 243s in the past and one 6MM Remington. I used 100 grain Nosler Partition in all 3 rifles on every deer I ever shot with them, and every one was a one shot kill, none of them ran far (longest was about 25 yards) and all had exits.
I like a bigger rifle for most of my hunting, but I LIKE them, I don't feel I NEED them.
if you use an 80 grain Barnes I think you'd be as well armed for deer and probably better armed then someone else shooting a 7 Mag with a poor bullet that breaks up in the first 2" of penetration.
Like another poster said, I've heard of more deer being lost shot with a 243 than any other cartridge......but they all had one thing in common......operator error. With one exception, all those hunters were either young or inexperienced and failed to put the bullet in the right place. The exception was a hunter who took an extremely long shot at a deer who though hit, made onto posted property where he couldn't go look for it.
My family and I killed 4 nice bucks here last year. Three were killed with a 243, one with a 95 grain SST, and other 2 with a 85 grain Sierra HPBT. Just put the bullet in the right spot, and the 243 is as good as anything else.
It isn't that hard to kill deer if the hunter uses a properly constructed bullet and puts that bullet into the heart, lungs, or CNS. More often than not, the weakest link in the chain of variables is probably the shooter, not the rifle, cartridge, bullet, or sights.
I've shot quite a few whitetails with the 243 and 6mm REM and never had any of them go far after being shot thought the lungs, but they usually traveled up to 30 yards after being hit. A shot through both shoulders would have anchored them, but would have wasted some meat, and I generally hunt where a 30 yard run doesn't result in a lost deer.
I think that the improvements in bullet design/construction have made the 243 and 244/6MM REM better, more deadly, today than during the first 30 years of their existence.
As of 01/17/20,I like the 95 grain Winchester/Olin Deer Season XP factory load or the 90 grain AB component bullet when I load my own. I don't shoot at long ranges, so I don't need to shoot the longer/heavier VLD bullets that are currently in vogue.
With enough H-4350 to run a 100gr Partition to 3000 fps in a 22 inch barrel nothing, except extreme ranges, that little stubber is a good killer, but no long ranger, good luck and have fun, it's a cool little cartridge to shoot and hunt with.
I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
I equate this to flyfishermen who like to use the absolute smallest tippet and then guffaw those who don't. I'm sure I can kill elk with my .257 Roberts but I think I'll pass in favor of a big 7 or 30..... just sayin'
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
I have pretty much always been at the bottom. I have killed maybe a dozen or 15 deer with calibers above 24 with 30 being the largest.
Couldn't see where the bigger calibers did one lick better for me than the 24 caliber cartridges. Maybe heavier blood trails but I rarely need those as deer are usually down within 10-15 yards.
In fact 22 calibers are second in line to number of deer killed behind 24 caliber for me.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
The three largest bucks I've ever seen killed were taken with the 243, one of them mine, 176 gross B&C was the smallest of the three. I've used that rifle on a few over the years, 100 Hornady Interlock, 95 Partition, 95 Ballistic Tip, and 85 TSX. It mostly stays sighted for the 95 Ballistic Tip these days.
My issues with the .243 have been rushed shots or bad angles. It has also killed with authority when you put it in the boiler room. The issue I have with the .243 is that I've yet to find a bullet that leaves a blood trail like a .30-06 does. All of the dead deer I've harvested had little to no blood trail. That's my hesitation in using them in dense woods, At the end of the day, I just don't have the same confidence with the .243 that I have even with a .260.
I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
I buy several deer tags each year so that I can use different rifles, cartridges, and bullets.
I prefer to hunt fox squirrels 'cause the season is long, the game is plentiful, and I've run into fewer than a dozen other squirrel hunters in the 30 or so years that I've hunted squirrels in Nebraska.
The one deer my daughter shot with her .243 we lost and later found. It was a good shot in the vitals, but one wouldn't have known it. We were in a two person stand and I never even saw that deer flinch, it just ran off like it wasn't hit at all. We looked for hours in heavy grass, but ultimately the ravens revealed it four-five days later. It had gone 500-600 yards.
My only experience with a .243 and big game. I'll not set anyone up with less than a .260-.270 for deer-sized game. Personal preference.
I've seen a friend's young daughter kill 3 elk with a .243 using IMR4350 and an 80 gr..barnes TTSX bullets that I loaded for her. I've killed some big mule deer, whitetails and antelope with mine. I have shoulder problems and had neck fusion surgery and can't shoot my magnums anymore. Can't say I miss them either,
As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
I've killed truckloads of deer, hogs and pronghorn antelope with a 243.
I've used factory Hornady 100 grain Interlocks, Federal Blue box 100 grain, Federal Fusion 95 grainers, 95 grain Ballistic Tips in the past. For the last several years I've used 105 grain Hornady HPBT's in hand loads. They all worked great.
Oh, and I forgot a 300 pound mule deer buck too. That was with a 105 HPBT hand load. Again, no problem.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
I never killed anything with a 243 until last year. I shot a Doe at 150 yards with a 100 grain Sierra Gameking. Granted it was a liver shot but the deer went over 200 yards and towards the end I was running out of blood. Alls well that ends well but that was enough of small guns for me.
350 and real easy to shoot deer IN THE SUMMER NOT REALLY GOING OUT IN SESON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..
Moose, you have this right... I have shot 60 head of game with the 24 and 25 rifles.. Sometimes they are great.... And sometimes they suck.. But if the guy gets his deer ok.. But if it gets off and is lost. Well, I must have missed.. Bullshit!!! You are on the right track.. My wife shot a deer with a .250 Savage yrs ago.. It was a liver hit and we fooled with that little buck for almost half an hour.. It about fixed her for big game hunting.. But lucky she stuck with it.. She killed much more game.. Moose, elk , antelope and deer.. Then toward the end of her life she shot a nice antelope buck at about 125 yards.. Just as she shot, he stepped.. A liver hit!! But this time a 120 gr. 7mm bullet at about 3400fps.. The buck dropped and raised his head, I saw the hit with my glasses, I told her to bolt in a new round.. The buck never offered to get up but dropped his head and was done.. We were there with in minutes.. I get sick of these 500 yard shots with a 223 and dropped them in their tracks.. GIVE ME A BREAK
The first centerfire rifle I ever bought was a 243. I killed probably35 deer with it. I lost one deer with it that I shot. But I tracked some of the older bucks 3 or 400 yards. I shot factory cup and core bullets when I used it. And I shot till the deer was on the ground. The last big buck I killed with it I shot 5 times before he was down. I have never deer hunted with it since and won't again. It is much easier to shoot a 30-06 once and walk over to the deer than shoot a 243 several times then have to trail the thing through a thicket then drag it out. I realize many people will disagree but that has been my experience. Plus they usually have a lousy blood trail. I shot 100 gn bullets for deer.
350 and real easy to shoot deer IN THE SUMMER NOT REALLY GOING OUT IN SESON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..
Moose, you have this right... I have shot 60 head of game with the 24 and 25 rifles.. Sometimes they are great.... And sometimes they suck.. But if the guy gets his deer ok.. But if it gets off and is lost. Well, I must have missed.. Bullshit!!! You are on the right track.. My wife shot a deer with a .250 Savage yrs ago.. It was a liver hit and we fooled with that little buck for almost half an hour.. It about fixed her for big game hunting.. But lucky she stuck with it.. She killed much more game.. Moose, elk , antelope and deer.. Then toward the end of her life she shot a nice antelope buck at about 125 yards.. Just as she shot, he stepped.. A liver hit!! But this time a 120 gr. 7mm bullet at about 3400fps.. The buck dropped and raised his head, I saw the hit with my glasses, I told her to bolt in a new round.. The buck never offered to get up but dropped his head and was done.. We were there with in minutes.. I get sick of these 500 yard shots with a 223 and dropped them in their tracks.. GIVE ME A BREAK
First season is how you spell it. Second blood doesn't show up the best in the summer. It's real nice to be able to see the hit and track the deer in the field with the scope. Maybe 50 yards is the farthest I've had one run.
The farthest I've had to track a deer was with a .338 Balistic Tip. Guess why?
I had my son use a .243 Win for his first deer. It was a terrible shot. It was way too high and forward but it only went 40' . I was impressed. it was a Speer 100 gr. However, i have a .243 Win . cause I just wanted one. I am not sure I would bother anymore . It doubles as a deer / varmint round though, but no law against a .270 Win for varmints. I do have to say it sure is an easy round to shoot. and somewhat affordable .
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
My handle should make things obvious. The only issue I have ever seen with a 243 on deer was with sierra bullets, a lot of times they don't exit, the deer's dead and recovered so you can't really call it a failure. I switched to partitions, they always exit, and as stated previously have never lost one to that caliber exit holes or not. Just off the record, my brother wasn't the hottest with shot placement, but we still never lost one,
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, such as a diaphragm hit being called here as a "liver hit". I've killed probably close to 50 big game animals with a 243 ranging from turkeys to elk. (turkeys are considered big game here). mostly deer and antelope though. I have never lost one, and never had to chase one a great distance. in fact I can't remember any going more than 30 yards the vast majority dropped in their tracks. I used primarily the 95 NBT for the vast majority, including 4 deer just this year. all drt, although my sons mule deer doe ran 30-35 yards with a "liver hit" and was dead before we walked up to her 5 minutes later. learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
The one deer my daughter shot with her .243 we lost and later found. It was a good shot in the vitals, but one wouldn't have known it. We were in a two person stand and I never even saw that deer flinch, it just ran off like it wasn't hit at all. We looked for hours in heavy grass, but ultimately the ravens revealed it four-five days later. It had gone 500-600 yards.
My only experience with a .243 and big game. I'll not set anyone up with less than a .260-.270 for deer-sized game. Personal preference.
The 243 works great, until it doesn't. Kind of like riding a bicycle no handed.
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If you can't kill a deer with a .243 and the right bullet, you might need to get another activity. I had a friend that used a .243 exclusively and never needed more than one shot. He was a meat hunter and maxed out his tags every year. A box of ammo lasted him for years and years. Our shots are no more than 150 yards at the maximum and usually within 100. I've heard lost deer stories about a few even larger calibers, one was the .35 Remington for crying out loud, but the story tellers never admit to a badly placed shot.....it's always the gun's fault.
The 243 works great, until it doesn't. Kind of like riding a bicycle no handed.
About right.
I'd never even consider shooting at a mountain goat with that caliber. just because someone can do something doesn't mean it's the smartest choice. For me and mine, there are better alternatives out there for most big game, and it has little or nothing to do with skill level.
The 243 and deer seems to be a never ending discussion. Deer here can weigh 75 pounds for an 8 month old whitetail to 300 + pounds for a big mule deer. With proper bullet selection and proper bullet placement and some common sense regarding range it is an adequate deer caliber. I have had good results with it but my longest shot was a little over 200 yards. The biggest deer I have shot with it was a mule deer that likely weighed around 200 pounds at a range of about 125 yards.
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, such as a diaphragm hit being called here as a "liver hit". I've killed probably close to 50 big game animals with a 243 ranging from turkeys to elk. (turkeys are considered big game here). mostly deer and antelope though. I have never lost one, and never had to chase one a great distance. in fact I can't remember any going more than 30 yards the vast majority dropped in their tracks. I used primarily the 95 NBT for the vast majority, including 4 deer just this year. all drt, although my sons mule deer doe ran 30-35 yards with a "liver hit" and was dead before we walked up to her 5 minutes later. learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
LOL. The self proclaimed expert has pulled out his broad brush and begun to paint.....
Many years ago, I shot a doe antelope the opening day of season.. It was the evening, and she was drinking at a small pond.. I shot her with a 100 gr. Rem. Factory load though both lungs.. At the shot, she took off over the prairie for at least 200 yards.. It was flat and it was easy to follow where she went.. Finally, she went end over end.. Checking the trail there was little blood for the first 50 yard or so.. Had she disappeared from sight, finding her could have presented a real problem. Years before that, I shot a yearling antelope through both lungs.. It was a winter hunt hunt and very cold.. I decided to sit in the vehicle and warm up.. The antelope were following a ridge just opposite my spot about 200 yards away.. Finally this little buck came trailing up the ridge.. When he was opposite me,, I got a solid rest and shot for the lungs... No reaction.. He started slowly walking up the ridge.. I couldn’t believe I missed, but he just walked off... I figured if I missed that shot why try again.. I watched him walk up the ridge for maybe 300 to 400 yards... He stood around, and finally lay down.. I noticed his head was drooping so I went over to the spot where I had shot him.. In a short distance there was blood..Getting up the hill to the buck, he was dead shot though both lungs.. He gave no indication that he had been hit.. I have had this happen with deer also.. Not many times, but a few.. I never lost a animal with the .243 or 6mm.. I have had excellent performance many times.. But it is the less than perfect performance that troubles me with this caliber.. For the record, I usually shoot between 1000 to 5000 varmints per year.. So “range” time is not the issue.. I cannot get over the number of people who say the game was drt. An instant kill is usually a spinal shot..
The one deer my daughter shot with her .243 we lost and later found. It was a good shot in the vitals, but one wouldn't have known it. We were in a two person stand and I never even saw that deer flinch, it just ran off like it wasn't hit at all. We looked for hours in heavy grass, but ultimately the ravens revealed it four-five days later. It had gone 500-600 yards.
My only experience with a .243 and big game. I'll not set anyone up with less than a .260-.270 for deer-sized game. Personal preference.
The 243 works great, until it doesn't. Kind of like riding a bicycle no handed.
I feel the same way about Sierra bullets for shooting game.
For nearly 20 years I killed deer with the 85 grain .243" and 90 grain .257" Sierra GameKing BTHPs 'cause they were accurate and deadly. Then I had 4 bullet failures where the bullets disintegrated on contact and failed to penetrate trough the rib cage. I lost confidence in Sierra bullets for shooting game and no longer load them for that purpose. Now I load Barnes, Hornady, Nolser, and Speer for game and restrict my use of Sierras for shooting paper and varmints.
I started my daughter with a 260 shooting 120 grain BT handloads and my son with a 6.5 Creedmoor shooting 125 grain Deer Season XP factory loads. With good bullet placement, all of the deer that they had shot with these bullets have been 1-shot kills and all have been recovered. When they start hunting on their own and have to make their own decisions as to when, or when not, to shoot, their success ratio might change.
All that said, close to 100 deer that I've tagged with .243" bullets have fallen to 80 grain Federal factory loads that Federal does not recommend for shooting game. I used them because we bought a pile of 243 and 6mm REM factory ammo for around $3 per box and it is what we had on hand. It worked fine on behind the shoulder lung shots in situations where I could wait for a deer to present itself broadside and only minimal penetration was required, not something that I'd recommend to the average/casual deer hunter.
Many years ago, I shot a doe antelope the opening day of season.. It was the evening, and she was drinking at a small pond.. I shot her with a 100 gr. Rem. Factory load though both lungs.. At the shot, she took off over the prairie for at least 200 yards.. It was flat and it was easy to follow where she went.. Finally, she went end over end.. Checking the trail there was little blood for the first 50 yard or so.. Had she disappeared from sight, finding her could have presented a real problem. Years before that, I shot a yearling antelope through both lungs.. It was a winter hunt hunt and very cold.. I decided to sit in the vehicle and warm up.. The antelope were following a ridge just opposite my spot about 200 yards away.. Finally this little buck came trailing up the ridge.. When he was opposite me,, I got a solid rest and shot for the lungs... No reaction.. He started slowly walking up the ridge.. I couldn’t believe I missed, but he just walked off... I figured if I missed that shot why try again.. I watched him walk up the ridge for maybe 300 to 400 yards... He stood around, and finally lay down.. I noticed his head was drooping so I went over to the spot where I had shot him.. In a short distance there was blood..Getting up the hill to the buck, he was dead shot though both lungs.. He gave no indication that he had been hit.. I have had this happen with deer also.. Not many times, but a few.. I never lost a animal with the .243 or 6mm.. I have had excellent performance many times.. But it is the less than perfect performance that troubles me with this caliber.. For the record, I usually shoot between 1000 to 5000 varmints per year.. So “range” time is not the issue.. I cannot get over the number of people who say the game was drt. An instant kill is usually a spinal shot..
The heaviest whitetail that I've ever shot was drt, literally dead in its tracks, shot behind the shoulder with a 110 grain AB from a 25 WSSM. He was following 6 or 7 does when I shot him and I expected him to travel a bit before dying. When I didn't find him where I thought that he'd be, I went back to where he was when I fired and found him dead in his tracks. It looked as though he had been tipped over and hadn't moved at all. He was so big that I could hardly move him and had to cut him in half to load him. Without the head and cape the rest of him weighed in at around 270 lbs., so the live weight must have been over 300 lbs. I've never seen so quick a kill before or since. Just one of those WTF happened here things that can't be explained.
.243 Win + 95gr and 100gr Nosler Partitions have worked well on two to three dozen KY White Tails. Mostly DRT's. None traveled more than ~30 yards. Never caught one.
.243 Win +55gr-58gr Varmint bullet was sub-optimal on an 80lb pit bull. 3,500fps tight behind the shoulder at 30 ft. Ran off at the shot. Buzzards found it next day approx 200 yards out.
After the pit bull incident, decided that 95gr NPT would be my "do all" bullet for the .243. YMMV...
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
Beat me to it....
Except I'd say YMWV- your mileage WON'T vary ....
There is NO substitute for trigger time...lots of it, and from hunting positions, not from a bench.
THAT is how you avoid a recipe for failure..
Ammo is the cheapest part of ANY hunt these days, go spend some money on it and use it up.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
Beat me to it....
Except I'd say YMWV- your mileage WON'T vary ....
There is NO substitute for trigger time...lots of it, and from hunting positions, not from a bench.
THAT is how you avoid a recipe for failure..
Ammo is the cheapest part of ANY hunt these days, go spend some money on it and use it up.
I agree. I see people call “flyers” on the range yet NEVER would never admit they’ve shot a “flyer” on an animal. Instead, it’s always the rifle or the scope or the caliber or the bullet or...
Anyone who’s going to be hunting should educate themselves to a degree on terminal performance of billets, and how bullet construction will influence performance.
It always makes sense to shoot a good bullet. Which doesn’t have to be the most expensive bullet but shouldn’t be the cheapest bullet.
Many years ago, I shot a doe antelope the opening day of season.. It was the evening, and she was drinking at a small pond.. I shot her with a 100 gr. Rem. Factory load though both lungs.. At the shot, she took off over the prairie for at least 200 yards.. It was flat and it was easy to follow where she went.. Finally, she went end over end.. Checking the trail there was little blood for the first 50 yard or so.. Had she disappeared from sight, finding her could have presented a real problem. Years before that, I shot a yearling antelope through both lungs.. It was a winter hunt hunt and very cold.. I decided to sit in the vehicle and warm up.. The antelope were following a ridge just opposite my spot about 200 yards away.. Finally this little buck came trailing up the ridge.. When he was opposite me,, I got a solid rest and shot for the lungs... No reaction.. He started slowly walking up the ridge.. I couldn’t believe I missed, but he just walked off... I figured if I missed that shot why try again.. I watched him walk up the ridge for maybe 300 to 400 yards... He stood around, and finally lay down.. I noticed his head was drooping so I went over to the spot where I had shot him.. In a short distance there was blood..Getting up the hill to the buck, he was dead shot though both lungs.. He gave no indication that he had been hit.. I have had this happen with deer also.. Not many times, but a few.. I never lost a animal with the .243 or 6mm.. I have had excellent performance many times.. But it is the less than perfect performance that troubles me with this caliber.. For the record, I usually shoot between 1000 to 5000 varmints per year.. So “range” time is not the issue.. I cannot get over the number of people who say the game was drt. An instant kill is usually a spinal shot..
My Grandfather had bought a Savage 99 .243. He shot a buck with it around 150 yards. The buck just stood there looking around. He couldn't believe he missed but he shot again. The buck took a step and started quivering and collapsed. The bullets were side by side behind the shoulder right where he was aiming. He said he never needed to shoot one twice with his '06 and said he would never use that 243 on deer again. And he never did.
Many years ago, I shot a doe antelope the opening day of season.. It was the evening, and she was drinking at a small pond.. I shot her with a 100 gr. Rem. Factory load though both lungs.. At the shot, she took off over the prairie for at least 200 yards.. It was flat and it was easy to follow where she went.. Finally, she went end over end.. Checking the trail there was little blood for the first 50 yard or so.. Had she disappeared from sight, finding her could have presented a real problem. Years before that, I shot a yearling antelope through both lungs.. It was a winter hunt hunt and very cold.. I decided to sit in the vehicle and warm up.. The antelope were following a ridge just opposite my spot about 200 yards away.. Finally this little buck came trailing up the ridge.. When he was opposite me,, I got a solid rest and shot for the lungs... No reaction.. He started slowly walking up the ridge.. I couldn’t believe I missed, but he just walked off... I figured if I missed that shot why try again.. I watched him walk up the ridge for maybe 300 to 400 yards... He stood around, and finally lay down.. I noticed his head was drooping so I went over to the spot where I had shot him.. In a short distance there was blood..Getting up the hill to the buck, he was dead shot though both lungs.. He gave no indication that he had been hit.. I have had this happen with deer also.. Not many times, but a few.. I never lost a animal with the .243 or 6mm.. I have had excellent performance many times.. But it is the less than perfect performance that troubles me with this caliber.. For the record, I usually shoot between 1000 to 5000 varmints per year.. So “range” time is not the issue.. I cannot get over the number of people who say the game was drt. An instant kill is usually a spinal shot..
My Grandfather had bought a Savage 99 .243. He shot a buck with it around 150 yards. The buck just stood there looking around. He couldn't believe he missed but he shot again. The buck took a step and started quivering and collapsed. The bullets were side by side behind the shoulder right where he was aiming. He said he never needed to shoot one twice with his '06 and said he would never use that 243 on deer again. And he never did.
I have friends in northern New England who feel that the 30-30, 32 WS, and 35 REM are much better/quicker deer killers at the short ranges that they typically shoot than any cartridge shooting a .224", .243", .or 257" diameter bullet. I'd estimate that 2/3 of their shots are taken at running deer that they've jumped in thick cover, so they don't have time to pick their shot and are aiming at any part of a deer that is brown and has antlers.
Different situation, different requirements.
My first 2 deer rifles were a Ruger 44 International for still-hunting in thick cover where a rifle capable of delivering multiple quick shots was preferred and a Reminton 660 in 6mm REM for over-watching open spaces where there would usually be plenty of time to pick my shot. It seems as logical a choice in 2020 as it did in 1968/69.
2 of the best hunters who I've ever known, both women, hunted deer with 243s, a Remington 600 Mohawk and a Winchester 88 Carbine.
Funny thing is that I don't feel particularly old, but when I think about how old I really am, it is kind of frightening to think of all the time/opportunities that I've squandered.
I've yet to have an issue killing geer with a .243 or even a .223 for that matter and I've killed a sizeable pile with both. The farthest I ever had a deer go after a solid double lung shot was with a 1 oz, 12 gauge slug and the second farthest was with a 200 gr. .35 Remington. No lung shot deer ever went close to as far as those two with the .243 or .223.... Guess 12 gauge slugs and 200 gr .35's must be inadequate for deer.
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, such as a diaphragm hit being called here as a "liver hit". I've killed probably close to 50 big game animals with a 243 ranging from turkeys to elk. (turkeys are considered big game here). mostly deer and antelope though. I have never lost one, and never had to chase one a great distance. in fact I can't remember any going more than 30 yards the vast majority dropped in their tracks. I used primarily the 95 NBT for the vast majority, including 4 deer just this year. all drt, although my sons mule deer doe ran 30-35 yards with a "liver hit" and was dead before we walked up to her 5 minutes later. learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
LOL. The self proclaimed expert has pulled out his broad brush and begun to paint.....
He has experience with the cartridge on a variety of game and and further cites the bullet used for most of the hunts, while you only have a sample of one.
And on that one, you gut shot the animal, were disappointed that it kept traveling and wrote it off as a failure of the cartridge.
Your lack of marksmanship is the problem.
Bigger cartridges rarely make up for bad shooting and bad shooting is a recurring theme in your hunting stories.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, such as a diaphragm hit being called here as a "liver hit". I've killed probably close to 50 big game animals with a 243 ranging from turkeys to elk. (turkeys are considered big game here). mostly deer and antelope though. I have never lost one, and never had to chase one a great distance. in fact I can't remember any going more than 30 yards the vast majority dropped in their tracks. I used primarily the 95 NBT for the vast majority, including 4 deer just this year. all drt, although my sons mule deer doe ran 30-35 yards with a "liver hit" and was dead before we walked up to her 5 minutes later. learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
LOL. The self proclaimed expert has pulled out his broad brush and begun to paint.....
He has experience with the cartridge on a variety of game and and further cites the bullet used for most of the hunts, while you only have a sample of one.
And on that one, you gut shot the animal, were disappointed that it kept traveling and wrote it off as a failure of the cartridge.
Your lack of marksmanship is the problem.
Bigger cartridges rarely make up for bad shooting and bad shooting is a recurring theme in your hunting stories.
Your reading comprehension sucks. My bullet never touched the guts. It hit one lung and then liver. And I put it exactly where I wanted too. I didn't realize the deer was quartering. Thought it was broadside when I shot. So suck on that.
I disagree with your disagreement, the design is to kill not look pretty for an after picture. Where did it fail to meet the design?
I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. I (nor you in the post that I responded to) never said anything about a bullet being designed to "look pretty for an after picture".
If an accubond at above the recommended minimum impact velocity doesn't expand (for whatever reason) after going through bone and lungs and acts like a FMJ, but the animal dies after running several hundred yards did the bullet act as it was designed to? I'd say "no", despite it killing the animal. Likewise if that same accubond opens up way too quickly and fails to penetrate a scapula, acting more like a varmint grenade, but a small fragment or the core separates and finds its way through to the windpipe or lung and kills the animal after it runs several hundred yards, would you say that accubond worked as it was designed to?
If you say "yes" to both of these scenarios then why do bullet manufactures give details about design such as X% weight retention, designed for penetration through heavy bone, etc.? I've never seen a bullet designed simply to "kill".
Edited to add: I'm not saying these are common scenarios with accubonds....I am just using them as possible examples to illustrate my point.
sounds like those who have had troubles need to spend more time at the range, self admittedly so. there is a very small margin of where caliber can trump shot placement, such as a diaphragm hit being called here as a "liver hit". I've killed probably close to 50 big game animals with a 243 ranging from turkeys to elk. (turkeys are considered big game here). mostly deer and antelope though. I have never lost one, and never had to chase one a great distance. in fact I can't remember any going more than 30 yards the vast majority dropped in their tracks. I used primarily the 95 NBT for the vast majority, including 4 deer just this year. all drt, although my sons mule deer doe ran 30-35 yards with a "liver hit" and was dead before we walked up to her 5 minutes later. learning anatomy and learning your rifle and practicing is the key. buying a 30-06 and being sloppy shouldn't be the goal, but if that's what your skill level requires to get a marginal edge then I say go for it, less wounded deer out there the better. just call it what it is and not blame the instrument. ymmv
LOL. The self proclaimed expert has pulled out his broad brush and begun to paint.....
He has experience with the cartridge on a variety of game and and further cites the bullet used for most of the hunts, while you only have a sample of one.
And on that one, you gut shot the animal, were disappointed that it kept traveling and wrote it off as a failure of the cartridge.
Your lack of marksmanship is the problem.
Bigger cartridges rarely make up for bad shooting and bad shooting is a recurring theme in your hunting stories.
Your reading comprehension sucks. My bullet never touched the guts. It hit one lung and then liver. And I put it exactly where I wanted too. I didn't realize the deer was quartering. Thought it was broadside when I shot. So suck on that.
Bullshit. Your shooting sucks.
As does your "writing." You didn't convey anything about a quartering deer.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".
You know, that's the kind of chit that divides us all.
Not gonna start a pissing match with you, but I know some VERY good hunters and firearms experts from all over the country. Some of them even live in Texas.
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".
Originally Posted by moosemike
And the stupid Texan doesn't know where the guts are.
The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.
No wonder they call you "Dooshmike."
You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.
You're the dumbazz.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".
You know, that's the kind of chit that divides us all.
Not gonna start a pissing match with you, but I know some VERY good hunters and firearms experts from all over the country. Some of them even live in Texas.
Yeah, obviously, a guy who's killed one deer with a 243 and flubbed the shot is an expert should be listened to when he says it's not a good cartridge.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.
You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.
Says a lot when you have to explain that to another "hunter".
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
The prob with the 243 is that it was originally conceived of as a 'dual-purpose' cartridge, to be used for both varmints/predators, and for deer. Hence you had the lighter bullets with thin jackets for varmints, and then usually 100 gr thicker jacketed bullets for deer.
Sometimes idiots would use the varmint loads when they went deer hunting. The light bullets would blow up and not penetrate. That resulted in trouble.
To quote Big Stick, it's about bullets, not headstamps.
If you take the 243 deer hunting and are using a deer bullet, then you'll be happy. If you use a thin-jacketed varmint bullet, you're gonna wish you hadn't.
Bullets have evolved, and a light weight bullet made with a heavy jacket, or a monometal, will work.
Were it me, I'd just buy a box of 243's loaded with the 95 gr Nosler partition and go kill a deer. Yes...I say again, YES...there are plenty of other bullets suitable for deer besides the Partition. They are equally fine choices. The main thing is to choose a bullet designed for deer hunting vs, say, ground hog/woodchuck/whistle pig hunting, or prairie dog hunting.
If you're in doubt about a particular bullet, run it by the 'fire here, and the lads will let you know.
Edit: Apologies. I just read back 5 pages or so and just now realized I stepped into the middle of a pissin' contest! Another option, and options are always nice to have and sometimes useful, would be go to with a 7mm-08. It doesn't have much recoil, either, and is extremely effective. But as for the .243, it will certainly kill deer if proper ammunition loaded with a proper bullet is used and the operator has a clue what he/she is doing. If the operator is an idiot, then it doesn't matter what they are shooting...they are prolly gonna screw the pooch.
Last edited by DELGUE; 01/19/20.
Exquisitely turdlike in all of his many manifestations!!
I disagree with your disagreement, the design is to kill not look pretty for an after picture. Where did it fail to meet the design?
I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. I (nor you in the post that I responded to) never said anything about a bullet being designed to "look pretty for an after picture".
If an accubond at above the recommended minimum impact velocity doesn't expand (for whatever reason) after going through bone and lungs and acts like a FMJ, but the animal dies after running several hundred yards did the bullet act as it was designed to? I'd say "no", despite it killing the animal. Likewise if that same accubond opens up way too quickly and fails to penetrate a scapula, acting more like a varmint grenade, but a small fragment or the core separates and finds its way through to the windpipe or lung and kills the animal after it runs several hundred yards, would you say that accubond worked as it was designed to?
If you say "yes" to both of these scenarios then why do bullet manufactures give details about design such as X% weight retention, designed for penetration through heavy bone, etc.? I've never seen a bullet designed simply to "kill".
Edited to add: I'm not saying these are common scenarios with accubonds....I am just using them as possible examples to illustrate my point.
Have to apologize on that one, most posts I see refer to someone looking for the picture-perfect, magazine-advertisement, mushroom. My bad. I would not say either one performed per design, and have major flaws in either the materials employed in manufacture, or a process that does not supply predictable products. They did both kill, but apparently there are better, more predictable options. A manufacturer supplying x% of retained weight is giving subjective data, they "hope" it holds together and meets their criteria yielding the advertised result. It may or may not, there's too many variables in the middle, not withstanding the same 'oops" that every manufacturer becomes saddled with at some point. I've never seen a bullet specifically advertised as "simply to kill" I thought that was the whole point behind firing a bullet at whatever, in the first place.
I disagree with your disagreement, the design is to kill not look pretty for an after picture. Where did it fail to meet the design?
I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. I (nor you in the post that I responded to) never said anything about a bullet being designed to "look pretty for an after picture".
If an accubond at above the recommended minimum impact velocity doesn't expand (for whatever reason) after going through bone and lungs and acts like a FMJ, but the animal dies after running several hundred yards did the bullet act as it was designed to? I'd say "no", despite it killing the animal. Likewise if that same accubond opens up way too quickly and fails to penetrate a scapula, acting more like a varmint grenade, but a small fragment or the core separates and finds its way through to the windpipe or lung and kills the animal after it runs several hundred yards, would you say that accubond worked as it was designed to?
If you say "yes" to both of these scenarios then why do bullet manufactures give details about design such as X% weight retention, designed for penetration through heavy bone, etc.? I've never seen a bullet designed simply to "kill".
Edited to add: I'm not saying these are common scenarios with accubonds....I am just using them as possible examples to illustrate my point.
Have to apologize on that one, most posts I see refer to someone looking for the picture-perfect, magazine-advertisement, mushroom. My bad. I would not say either one performed per design, and have major flaws in either the materials employed in manufacture, or a process that does not supply predictable products. They did both kill, but apparently there are better, more predictable options. A manufacturer supplying x% of retained weight is giving subjective data, they "hope" it holds together and meets their criteria yielding the advertised result. It may or may not, there's too many variables in the middle, not withstanding the same 'oops" that every manufacturer becomes saddled with at some point. I've never seen a bullet specifically advertised as "simply to kill" I thought that was the whole point behind firing a bullet at whatever, in the first place.
Not a problem my man.....always good to her multiple thoughts on subjects such as this.
I think this sums up the anti 243 argument some are trying to make.
B I N G O ! and we CAN'T leave out BULLET PLACEMENT.
In years past I killed WT with the .243 & 6mm Rem. Thankfully I never lost one using them. However being a loony I started using other cartridges, 308 W, 270 W, 06, 7 Rm and I saw the difference. After killing many WT with all 243----7 RM I saw that larger bullets and at similar velocity (speed) showed more impact response and quicker grounding ( I do know that 243 & 6mm were responsible for DRT but NOT always.)
I have and still like my 6mm Rem but I haven't deer hunted it in more years than I can remember. It's been a while.
A Texan who is a know it all. What a surprise. It was Robert Duvall's character Al Sieber in Geronimo who said "Texans is the lowest form of white man".
Originally Posted by moosemike
And the stupid Texan doesn't know where the guts are.
The guts and the liver, are behind the diaphragm, which is where you shoot deer and then claim the cartridge doesn't work.
No wonder they call you "Dooshmike."
You attacked Colorado1135 when he related a lot of experience and then you admitted you'd only shot one deer with a 243 (and shot it too far back at that). And from that sample of one, you declared the 243 wasn't a good deer cartridge.
Geez children! I have used the 243 a lot over the many years. If I were going to treat a 243 like a full service deer rifle I would trade it in for a 7-08. Seemed to me if I used a bullet that gave reliable exits I got narrow wound channels and sometimes I had to do some tracking. On the other hand if I used a bullet in the mid weight range like the 87 gr. Hornady or 85 gr. Speer SPBT I didn't often get an exit but the deer didn't go as far. If you go up just a bit in caliber you can get the best of both worlds, good wound channels and exits. Starting with the 6.5 Creed to the 308 you give up nothing, gain some and recoil is not all that hard to deal with. I liked the 95 gr. Ballistic Tip the best.
80gr Barnes TTSX through the shoulders, tracking is overrated.
+1 on this! My daughter killer her 10th deer in 4 seasons yesterday with this combo. As she grows in confidence and shoots more shoulders and less lungs, the blood trails get shorter...... She has yet to have a deer run more than 50 yards and more than half have fallen in their tracks. The last 2 deer have crumpled without so much as a kick and both were center shoulder shots and between 120 and 150 yards.
If you can't kill a deer with a .243 and the right bullet, you might need to get another activity.
I agree. Killed plenty of deer with a 243. Stick with bullets intended for deer sized game and learn to shoot your rifle. End of list.
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but the story tellers never admit to a badly placed shot.....it's always the gun's fault.
I have helped on plenty of bloodtrails both gun and bow hunting where the shooter made a "good hit" only to eventually find the deer 400 yards away and "UH OH!" Surprise, surprise the hit was actually for complete s#*t. If that was the case in most of the long tracking jobs that ended with a recovered deer then I'm fairly certain that it was the case with the unrecovered ones as well.
Gut shot deer can go a long ways and be hard to find no matter what you shoot them with. It would be very rare IMHO if making a 30 caliber hole through a deers colon made it much easier to find compared to one with a 24 caliber hole in the same spot.
95g SST, 95g ballistic tip, 95g Partition, 100g Hornady all work extremely well.
R#26 boosts velocity to 3200 with the above bullets, but our success was in the 3000 fps area, Big Kansas white tails and big Nebraska corn fed Bucks. My friend in New Zealand shoots from one mt to the next with the 243 and 95g SST on those large deer they have.
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with a .243W. My daughter now 28 years old has killed 22 WT deer with 22 shots and a good many hogs with her plain Jane Model 10 Savage .243W that she got at age 9. One of the hogs was a huge Russian that was the biggest anyone around here has killed. In my job as a state game warden I helped track down a good many wounded deer that had been shot with a .243W. The last deer I shot with my daughters rifle was a large 9 point hit behind his shoulder at a slight angle to aft. He was down without moving out of his tracks. Almost all of our deer shooting since 2001 with the .243W has been Nosler Partition 100 gr. I bought a .243W Model 700 in 1978 and killed 6 deer in one year with it using Remington factory loads probably 100 grain corelocks. One very good buck that I thought I made a good shot on went down and then got up and left and was never seen again. Another 220 lb. 8 point buck being chased by beagles stopped behind a tree maybe 25 feet from me. To avoid hitting the tree I made a shot pretty far back and got one lung at which point he took off and was shot at and missed by another hunter maybe 300 yards away. Needless to say after the beagles caught him I had to show the blood trail leading up to the second shot to claim my deer. After that in 1980 I bought a Model 700 .30-06 which I still own. The .243W is a fine accurate rifle and usually works just fine but there have been a lot of cases where a less than ideal shot from a .30-06 instead of the .243W would have resulted in a recovered deer or a lot less hiking. I don't argue for large magnums but sometimes you can get a less than ideal shot off for any number of reasons and be brought to grief with a marginal round. My daughter even though she is grown now stills exclusively uses her .243W with 100 gr. Nosler Partititions but she will tell you a .30-06 is a superior deer rifle.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I've killed maybe a dozen deer with a .243W. My daughter now 28 years old has killed 22 WT deer with 22 shots and a good many hogs with her plain Jane Model 10 Savage .243W that she got at age 9. One of the hogs was a huge Russian that was the biggest anyone around here has killed. In my job as a state game warden I helped track down a good many wounded deer that had been shot with a .243W. The last deer I shot with my daughters rifle was a large 9 point hit behind his shoulder at a slight angle to aft. He was down without moving out of his tracks. Almost all of our deer shooting since 2001 with the .243W has been Nosler Partition 100 gr. I bought a .243W Model 700 in 1978 and killed 6 deer in one year with it using Remington factory loads probably 100 grain corelocks. One very good buck that I thought I made a good shot on went down and then got up and left and was never seen again. Another 220 lb. 8 point buck being chased by beagles stopped behind a tree maybe 25 feet from me. To avoid hitting the tree I made a shot pretty far back and got one lung at which point he took off and was shot at and missed by another hunter maybe 300 yards away. Needless to say after the beagles caught him I had to show the blood trail leading up to the second shot to claim my deer. After that in 1980 I bought a Model 700 .30-06 which I still own. The .243W is a fine accurate rifle and usually works just fine but there have been a lot of cases where a less than ideal shot from a .30-06 instead of the .243W would have resulted in a recovered deer or a lot less hiking. I don't argue for large magnums but sometimes you can get a less than ideal shot off for any number of reasons and be brought to grief with a marginal round. My daughter even though she is grown now stills exclusively uses her .243W with 100 gr. Nosler Partititions but she will tell you a .30-06 is a superior deer rifle.
And that is the conclusion I came to between my experiences, my Grandfather's, and a relative of mine who killed his first 30 some odd deer with a 243 but now hunts them with a 7mm Mag.
If you can't kill a deer with a .243 and the right bullet, you might need to get another activity.
I agree. Killed plenty of deer with a 243. Stick with bullets intended for deer sized game and learn to shoot your rifle. End of list.
Quote
but the story tellers never admit to a badly placed shot.....it's always the gun's fault.
I have helped on plenty of bloodtrails both gun and bow hunting where the shooter made a "good hit" only to eventually find the deer 400 yards away and "UH OH!" Surprise, surprise the hit was actually for complete s#*t. If that was the case in most of the long tracking jobs that ended with a recovered deer then I'm fairly certain that it was the case with the unrecovered ones as well.
Gut shot deer can go a long ways and be hard to find no matter what you shoot them with. It would be very rare IMHO if making a 30 caliber hole through a deers colon made it much easier to find compared to one with a 24 caliber hole in the same spot.
Isn't part of the sportsmanship component of hunting knowing when not to squeeze the trigger?
If the target is at a range that is beyond the ability of the shooter and/or the shooter's equipment, it is probably a shot that should never have been taken.
But when you make a good shot and the caliber doesn't preform as it should, everyone who likes the caliber blames something else.. Good shot placement is very important, but using an adequate caliber and bullet is also important.. If shot placement were all that counts, a .22 short should be enough..
I have seen deer shot from everything from a .223 to a .300 Remington Ultra Mag. The cartridges I have seen the most are the .243, .25-06 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, and .300 Win Mag. I would group the first two together as far as "on game effect" and same with the last three.
I think the .243 with the 80 TTSX/85 TSX is a fine deer rifle. As others have said it is not the most powerful rifle in the woods but if you put the bullet where it needs to go it won't disappoint. I don't see a lot of difference in it and the .25-06 on Antelope, WT or Mule Deer.
I do think bullet selection is important and I am a big fan of Barnes bullets. I have not used a partition in either but would not hesitate to do so. Load the Barnes .05 off the lands to start and run them hard, you won't be disappointed. At extended ranges (300+ yards) there is not a lot of power left but it will still do the job. It wont perform like a .30-06, but it doesn't kick like one either.
As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
I have two 243's that have accounted for 14 elk with 100 gr NPt's. It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet.
Mule Deer once posted "Shoot them in the front half". I'll add, shoot them in the front half with enough bullet.
If or when my light 270's are more recoil than I like in my old age, a 243 or 243 AI will be my primary pronghorn, deer, elk, bear, and brontosaurus rifle...........
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
....Good shot placement is very important, but using an adequate caliber and bullet is also important.. If shot placement were all that counts, a .22 short should be enough..
[align:left][/align]Bullets are just better now days. I use 100 grain SGK in my .243. It kills well if I do my part. I've killed hogs with it DRT at 50-100 yards.
There's also another option. I have a .250 Savage I had built on a Howa 1500 Action a few years back. Actually it isn't really a build, more a rebarrel. I put a Krieger 1:9 twist SS 26" barrel on it and it shoots bug holes. I've killed a hog with it at 120 yards with 115 grain Combined Technologies Ballistic tips. My EX wife killed a deer with it but at only about 40 yards. That's all it's been shot at. I usually hunt with my .270, .280, or .30-06. I also have a .257 AI I like too. But I love that .250 Savage. Minimal recoil and accurate. With 115 grain bullets over 39 grains of RL-17 at 2900 chronographed FPS its really in a different class than a .243.
Last edited by Filaman; 01/23/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
For the past 20 years of hunting deer, my wife and i have mainly used 7mm cartridges (wsm, 284 win, 7-08). The past 3 seasons I've switched to a 243, and have taken 3 pretty nice, mature mid-MO bucks with live weights over 200 pounds. All three had short runs of 30-40 yards, before they expired. The deer reaction upon being hit and the terminal performance has been indistinguishable from that of the 7mm rounds. This was using a 95 gr BT for the last two, and 100 gr PT for the first one. Good bullet, good location, good eatin'.
Last edited by bludog; 01/23/20.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
But when you make a good shot and the caliber doesn't preform as it should, everyone who likes the caliber blames something else.. Good shot placement is very important, but using an adequate caliber and bullet is also important.. If shot placement were all that counts, a .22 short should be enough..
But when you make a good shot and the caliber doesn't preform as it should, everyone who likes the caliber blames something else.. Good shot placement is very important, but using an adequate caliber and bullet is also important.. If shot placement were all that counts, a .22 short should be enough..
I don;t know that anyone has claimed that shot placement is all that counts.
I would agree that an adequate bullet is an important part of the equation, but the caliber less so if common sense is engaged.
As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
I have two 243's that have accounted for 14 elk with 100 gr NPt's. It's not about the cartridge, it's about the bullet.
Mule Deer once posted "Shoot them in the front half". I'll add, shoot them in the front half with enough bullet.
If or when my light 270's are more recoil than I like in my old age, a 243 or 243 AI will be my primary pronghorn, deer, elk, bear, and brontosaurus rifle...........
Ha! "Shoot them in the front half"....with a tough bullet. Pretty simple.
I don't think anyone here is mistaking the power of a .243 for that of a 30-06. Certainly few if any are chasin grizzly on purpose with one. But a funny guy over on greybeard once told a story of a guy he knew or met down in Carolina, or thereabouts, that shot a big black bear with a 243. And he said when he asked him why he used a 243 to shoot that big black bear with, the guy just looked at him like he had two heads and said, " Cuz that's what I got."
Apparently the .243's appropriateness for deer has been a topic ever since the cartridge appeared in 1955. I didn't use one until 1974, after getting a hell of a deal on an almost-new Remington 700 BDL. Back then I was doing a lot of deer hunting, and eventually took 16 deer with that rifle, along with a couple of pronghorns, before starting to "experiment" with other rounds.
When my then new wife Eileen started hunting in the mid-80s, she used a .257 Roberts belonging to my grandmother, then a .270 Winchester we bought, because Eileen also wanted to hunt elk. (She's since taken one elk quite handily with the .257, but that's another subject.)
By the time she started suffering from recoil headaches a decade or so ago, she knew the .243 was often denigrated as a "women and kids" round, so didn't want one. But then we got invited on a fallow deer cull in Ireland, and the rifle she was assigned was a Heym bolt-action .243. She killed several deer, and discovered it worked well, without giving her a headache.
A few years later I purchased a nifty little Husqvarna .243 on the Campfire Classifieds, just because it was a good deal. When it showed up Eileen liked it so much, she started hunting with the Husky. A couple years later she dropped the biggest-bodied whitetail she's ever taken with one shot at around 100 yards, using the 100-grain Nosler Partition at around 2900 fps. The buck was tracking does at last light, and since she didn't want to track him in the dark, put the bullet through the shoulders and spine. This caused the buck to drop right there, and the little Partition even exited.
In the meantime I ended up taking quite a few more deer with the .243 in recent years, due to some deer culling in various places on hunts sponsored by various manufacturers, using their rifles and ammo. Used the same shoulder/spine shot placement to kill quite a few, some even with cup-and-core factory loads, with no problem.
We have also both taken several pronghorns with the .243 at longer ranges, though none that I can recall beyond 400 yards. Though we have taken a bunch with similar rounds at 350-450, including the .257 Roberts.
Neither of us have had any problems with the .243 on deer, and between our rifles and borrowed rifles have taken quite a few over the decades.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
my little 223 suppressor fit on my kimber montana 243, yet another perk. farthest shots I've made on game were 438 on a big mule deer buck this past fall, an antelope at 350 and an elk at 525 ish (I don't remember the exact yardage off hand but it was around 525 if not a hair over). all with the 95 NBT. I don't fault anyone for needing a bigger rifle, then again I don't drive a bigger truck than I need to either.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Two of the best hunters who I've known were both women and both of them hunted deer with 243s.
Harriet McCarthy shot a Winchester 88 Carbine and Thelma LaHaye shot a Remington 600 Mohawk. Both of them were still-hunters and swore by Johnson Woolen Mills green/black buffalo plaid "camo", this was back before medium game firearms hunters were required to wear blaze orange clothing.
I don't have any idea what sort of ammunition they used, probably 100 grain factory loads since it was common knowledge back in the late 1960's that any 6MM bullet weighing less than 100 grains was inadequate for killing deer. Remington/Peters loaded a couple of 90 grain bullets suitable for shooting medium game for the 244, but they failed to sway public opinion against the 244. When my Father bought a Remington 660 in 6MM for me, he bought all of the 90 grain Bronze Point 244 ammo that he could find, as he thought that was a better medium game bullet than the 100 grain bullet that Remington loaded in the 6MM ammo. I don't know why or how he came to that decision, but I shot a few whitetails with that ammo and a quite a few 'chucks with the 90 grain PSP bullet. 50 years later I still have the 660 and a few boxes of both kinds of old 90 grain Peters 244 ammo.
I think this sums up the anti 243 argument some are trying to make.
B I N G O ! and we CAN'T leave out BULLET PLACEMENT.
In years past I killed WT with the .243 & 6mm Rem. Thankfully I never lost one using them. However being a loony I started using other cartridges, 308 W, 270 W, 06, 7 Rm and I saw the difference. After killing many WT with all 243----7 RM I saw that larger bullets and at similar velocity (speed) showed more impact response and quicker grounding ( I do know that 243 & 6mm were responsible for DRT but NOT always.)
I have and still like my 6mm Rem but I haven't deer hunted it in more years than I can remember. It's been a while.
I'll take large holes.
Jerry
Thats interesting to me, because I started with a 6mm Rem, moved to 243. For years ran that. 105 Speer mostly. Then I moved up to other rounds like many of us have.
The only thing since then thats killed as quickly and often for no reason falling in the tracks, IE no CNS hit, is a 257 wtby. Every other round that has bigger bullets and moves faster and has more energy they just run. Often a bit more running.
Even when I was dumb enough to think maybe in the bigger rounds I had to shoot lighter bullets than I was comfortable with... nope still ran like crazy.
In fact after years of running 300 wtby the only ones that dropped were all the ones we head shot and one I shot frontal in the chest. Every other deer ran.
Of course I'd be happy hunting whitetails with a 22LR for the most part if legal. But since its not I often hunt with a 300/221 suppressed. 194 at a humming 900 or so FPS...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I don't know how many deer I have shot with a 243 but it is close to 200. I lost two one my fault and one questionable bullet performance ( and my fault ) and lost because of head high grass and darkness. It only went about 200 yards but couldn't find it till the next day. With the current premium bullets available the 243 is viable but not great for elk. If a 243 was the only rifle I had I would not hesitate to use it on moose or big bear, I would just be damned sure I was making a good shot and not too far either.
The 243 is a good choice as are all the medium small bores between 6 & 7 mm for deer. With the 243 I would be a little more particular on the bullet choice especially on 200 lb. plus deer. The medium 6.5s are still in the same recoil threshold as the 243 and I do think they are more versatile on game larger than deer than the 243. But I will never be without at least one and usually several 243s. My latest is a 6mm AI and I do like it but still wonder about if it was just gun loony thinking on building one. Sure it is better at 1,000 yards but I can count the number of deer I have shot over a quarter mile on one hand, I don't even have to take my shoes off.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Tejano, That reminds me when I talked to a guy a long time ago that worked at a gun shop. He went to his inlaws house for a hunt in British Columbia. He shot a moose and 2 black bear about 250 lbs each at around 200 yds away.. I asked , what caliber? Expecting to hear 300 Super shazam Magnum. He said a 243 Win. I was amused at his answer . He said the 3 animals didn't go far. I dont know how big the moose was or the bullet . He reloaded so a Partition???
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
My big "failure" with a .243 on deer happened on my second deer hunt. A 2pt buck was moving from our right to left and angling slightly away. My shot went through both lungs and the buck fell. It got up and, before my brother or I got off a second shot, another hunter shot it in the ass and it went down for good. Both hind quarters were pretty much ruined and the other hunter started yelling something about his shot dropping the deer. My brother kept a cool head and we talked with the guy. A complete pass through the chest wasn't as fatal as an ass shot so we let the lucky fellow have the carcass. It was my fault for using such a puny rifle and those darned 80 grain varmint bullets in the yellow boxes. My brother and I had more than a couple complete pass thrus with those bullets on both blacktails and mule deer.
Nothing generates as much response as another 243 on deer thread.
I think we all can agree it's a pretty good deer cartridge. But some of us think there are better choices for our limited capabilities.
Fixed it for you 😉
Only kidding, personal preference is what matters. I have zero problems with people shooting what they want, when they decide to piss on my choice I'm gonna say something. I have guided in 5 states on multiple properties in the last 20 years. Just yesterday took a client out hunting buffalo as a favor to help a friend. The biggest rodeos I've experienced is from hunters who are over gunned. When a guy shows up with a 308 to hunt elk I feel more relaxed going into it than a guy who comes with a 375 h&h. Cartridge choice can tell a lot about the person 99% of the time.
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
I used a 243 Remington varminter HB, for many years to hunt all manner of creatures. I've shot lots of different bullets through it. It never liked heavies. A very accurate and deadly bullet, was a Speer 90gr Hot Cor. Looking at a nice antelope buck on my wall right now, and several whitetail racks, that fell to it. Set it up for coyotes now with 70gr ballistic tips.
Several years ago a Texas outfitter I know had a guy show up for a buffalo (bison) hunt with a .458 Lott, which he claimed would "knock down" any bull, pronto. Of course, the guy had never shot ANYTHING with a .458 Lott before--and he had no clue about bison anatomy. He tried for a shoulder shot, which didn't work since he aimed too high (of course). Several hours and rounds later the bull finally died, after being chased around the brush quite a bit.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Only kidding, personal preference is what matters. I have zero problems with people shooting what they want, when they decide to piss on my choice I'm gonna say something. I have guided in 5 states on multiple properties in the last 20 years. Just yesterday took a client out hunting buffalo as a favor to help a friend. The biggest rodeos I've experienced is from hunters who are over gunned. When a guy shows up with a 308 to hunt elk I feel more relaxed going into it than a guy who comes with a 375 h&h. Cartridge choice can tell a lot about the person 99% of the time.
Terrific shot all right. Pretty neat that you can watch the bullet trail through the air out from the muzzle. Not a shot that most of us would have attempted, but all's well that ends well. Old opinions on the .243 as a deer cartridge die slowly. Admittedly there have been a lot of new designer bullet introductions in the last couple of decades that have grown up the smaller cartridges into pretty serviceable medium game chambering choices.
I do remember reading that Cedar Knoll Sportsman's Lodge deer shooting study that they conducted on their South Carolina hunting preserve back in the 1990's. They documented between 400 and 500 whitetail deer killed from their blinds with similar behind the shoulder shots using .243, .257, .277 and .308 diameter deer bullets and measured and averaged the distance each deer ran after the shot. The .257" diameter bullets put the deer down the fastest followed by the .277 and .308 in that order. The deer shot with the .243 diameter bullets went farther than any of the others after being shot. I don't remember the exact distances, but it helped me narrow my cartridge choices to something larger than a .243 or a 6mm for my deer hunting.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
Ive been stretching range (for me) with my 243 and 95gr BT. 20" barrel is slow mv is 2,850fps but very accurate.
One spot on my lease allows an approach to 275yds. Had the same reaction a couple of times now. Double lung performance on 80lb does is disconcerting. No or very little reaction to strike, run with herd for 50yds, get ragged, fail to negotiate fence, run back out 30yds fall dead. Reasonable expansion.
Its dead, distance run isnt dissimilar to my 7-08 and 140s at that range but the lack of reaction is a bit un-nerving
I've owned this 243 HB since the mid 80's. Not sure how many things have fallen to it, nor how many rounds fired thru it ? I loaded 90gr Ballistic tips in it,with a max charge of imr4350. I call her "Linda", as she has a deep throat. I set the bt's at 2.80, and went shooting yesterday. Linda loves the 90gr's pushed down her throat ! They were eating a ragged hole ! Think I'll put a 90gr bt into a deer or antelope ? With what John B., says about bt's now, you betcha. I've always had this love affair with Linda, and will continue to do so. A 243 is a helluva all around cartridge.
Ive been stretching range (for me) with my 243 and 95gr BT. 20" barrel is slow mv is 2,850fps but very accurate.
One spot on my lease allows an approach to 275yds. Had the same reaction a couple of times now. Double lung performance on 80lb does is disconcerting. No or very little reaction to strike, run with herd for 50yds, get ragged, fail to negotiate fence, run back out 30yds fall dead. Reasonable expansion.
Its dead, distance run isnt dissimilar to my 7-08 and 140s at that range but the lack of reaction is a bit un-nerving
For a specialized situation of lung shooting of small does for the freezer I would consider a lighter, more frangible bullet at higher speed.
Ive been stretching range (for me) with my 243 and 95gr BT. 20" barrel is slow mv is 2,850fps but very accurate.
One spot on my lease allows an approach to 275yds. Had the same reaction a couple of times now. Double lung performance on 80lb does is disconcerting. No or very little reaction to strike, run with herd for 50yds, get ragged, fail to negotiate fence, run back out 30yds fall dead. Reasonable expansion.
Its dead, distance run isnt dissimilar to my 7-08 and 140s at that range but the lack of reaction is a bit un-nerving
Load up some 85 grain Sierra SP Varminters.
Problem solved.
Speer 85 grain BTSP is another good one.
Deer are small critters that don't take much to kill.
Contrary to popular belief those 85 grain bullets are mighty rough on 200# bucks as well. Not like a 200# animal is all that tough to kill.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 02/03/20.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Where are people shooting these deer that run after the shot? I don't kill alot of deer prob 5-6 on an average year and it's once about every 3 years that a deer makes it 50 yards after the shot. That's with a variety of cartridges and factory ammo, usually blue box. And a variety of shot angles and impacts. Range 50-250. I just don't understand all these deer running after getting shot. And as I type this I can't ever remember a deer going anywhere but straight down that i shot with a 243.
Too tough of a bullet for a maximum of a 200-250# animal.
Most are shooting too hard of a bullet for smaller animals.
If somebody wants to shoot a hard bullet shoot forward or high forward and break bone. If they move at all it won't be much.
Partition is as "tough" as a bullet as I need and the front of them is pretty soft but I do get exits where sometimes I didn't with a Sierra, but deer never went far enough to need a blood trail.
To each his own but I know what I like and what works for me.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Where are people shooting these deer that run after the shot? I don't kill alot of deer prob 5-6 on an average year and it's once about every 3 years that a deer makes it 50 yards after the shot. That's with a variety of cartridges and factory ammo, usually blue box. And a variety of shot angles and impacts. Range 50-250. I just don't understand all these deer running after getting shot. And as I type this I can't ever remember a deer going anywhere but straight down that i shot with a 243.
Lung shot will usually allow a short run. They're just dead on their feet and running on existing oxygen.
Where are people shooting these deer that run after the shot? I don't kill alot of deer prob 5-6 on an average year and it's once about every 3 years that a deer makes it 50 yards after the shot. That's with a variety of cartridges and factory ammo, usually blue box. And a variety of shot angles and impacts. Range 50-250. I just don't understand all these deer running after getting shot. And as I type this I can't ever remember a deer going anywhere but straight down that i shot with a 243.
Lung shot will usually allow a short run. They're just dead on their feet and running on existing oxygen.
That's what I'm saying. Mine usually flop when shot in the lungs just as if they were shot on the point of the shoulder. Im sure some will disagree with me. Bang flop, especially with a 243
Where are people shooting these deer that run after the shot? I don't kill alot of deer prob 5-6 on an average year and it's once about every 3 years that a deer makes it 50 yards after the shot. That's with a variety of cartridges and factory ammo, usually blue box. And a variety of shot angles and impacts. Range 50-250. I just don't understand all these deer running after getting shot. And as I type this I can't ever remember a deer going anywhere but straight down that i shot with a 243.
Um, right where I like to, a bit behind the meat of the front shoulder, an inch or three behind the crease and about 1/3 of the way up to loose the least amount of meat possible.
While a lot shot with 243 used to drop even with that shot, a lot run.
The way you DRT a deer is hit CNS. Not even shoulders are a guarantee.
Of course thats only shooting deer since about 1976 or so. And probably only averaged shooting 4-5 a year. Plus a number of pigs a year.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Killed my first deer in 1966, but have only been using the .243 since 1974, with a bunch of bullets and loads. As with any other cartridge, some lung-shot deer (and "deer-sized") big game animals will travel a ways before dropping. Have seen them go 75 yards with both lungs shredded and the top of the heart with a 1" hole through the plumbing.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
MD, would you say that's the rule or the exception?
I just don't see it. I'm racking my brain and the last lung shot deer that ran anywhere I shot broadside with a 165 partition from a 300 saum at about 40 yards, he ran a whopping 40 yards. Like I said about 1 out of 15 moves, from the shot. If you consider a little over 100 feet to be moving
Light bullets driven fast will do that, but I am kinda shy about light bullet construction and prefer the middle to heavier range of bullet for a cartridge. And a light .243 can be speedy.
Whatever you are doing, keep doing it.
Now, 40 yards is about what I expect for lung shot. I shot 3 this year and got a DRT, a 20 yard dash, and a 90! yard dash, all with the same rifle, so the individual deer reacts different. Id like to get your percentage of bang/flops for lung shots but don't expect it.
MD, would you say that's the rule or the exception?
I just don't see it. I'm racking my brain and the last lung shot deer that ran anywhere I shot broadside with a 165 partition from a 300 saum at about 40 yards, he ran a whopping 40 yards. Like I said about 1 out of 15 moves, from the shot. If you consider a little over 100 feet to be moving
Heart/lung shot deer typically go for a short run.
Years ago I had a Winchester semi heavy barreled (26 inch) 243. All I ever shot out of it was the 70 grain ballistic tip over a max charge of 4350.
I shot two does with that combo, they dropped to the shot. One was standing and I spined her. The other was running and I couldn’t find any bullet holes after skinning.
That has not been my experience, in fact I tend to expect deer (and similar-sized game such as pronghorns and pigs) to go a ways after a behind-the-shoulder lung shot. Sometimes they drop, but I never "expect" it, even with the quickest-killing bullets, whether Ballistic Tips at high velocity or Bergers. (In my hunting notes, Bergers have not only provided the highest percentage of instant drops with lung shots, but the shortest runs after the shot.)
Have also shot a bunch of deer with 165 Partitions, mostly from the .30-06 but also various .300 magnums, and can only remember one that fell instantly from a lung shot--a big mule deer buck standing broadside about 300 yards away. At the shot he dropped straight down--but a couple days later my hunting partner shot another big mule deer buck with the same rifle and load at around 150 yards. (The scope had gone screwy on his .308, so he borrowed my .30-06.) That bullet also went behind the shoulder through the lungs, yet the buck went around 25-30 yards after the shot, and in fact tried to sniff a doe, before falling.
Have also never seen any significant difference in how whitetails and mule deer react to a double-lung shot, and have seen hundreds of both taken. Occasionally have seen deer (and antelope) actually back up after a fatal lung shot, as much as 10-15 yards, before falling. In fact the last mule deer buck I killed backed up. He was 160 yards away, almost perfectly broadside, and I put a 129-grain Nosler AccuBond Long Range from a 6.5 PRC tight behind his shoulder. He immediately started backing up, but only made it maybe 8 feet before falling.
Which brings up another subject. Would that buck qualify as a DRT? I have always interpreted DRT ("dead right there" or "dropped right there") as falling straight down and not moving on the bullet's impact. But upon questioning other hunters, some have said they consider it a DRT whenever they see animal fall, even if it runs after the shot.
Have also seen animals that were APPARENTLY hit only through the lungs turned out to have the bullet (or a fragment) hit the bottom of the spine. A good example was a young cow elk my wife killed a few years ago. It was not a calf, but a 1-1/2 year old, weighing around 350-375 pounds, standing quartering away on the opposite side of a draw at a lasered 123 yards. Eileen was using her .257 Roberts, with a handload starting 100-grain Barnes TTSXs at around 3150 fps. I expected the cow to run maybe 30-50 yards after the shot. Instead it fell instantly, then flopped its head a few times and lay still. While field-dressing it, we found the bullet had angled through both lungs, ending up under the hide in the meat of the far shoulder. But it had also taken a chip less than an inch deep from the bottom of the spine. That is probably what caused the elk to drop right there, though the holes through the lungs are what actually killed it.
So yes, I do expect deer (and other big game animals) to go a ways after a behind-the-shoulder, double-lung shot. Sometimes they drop instantly, never taking a step, which is great--but I do not expect them to, no matter the bullet or cartridge.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I think I killed my first deer in 1975,in any event I used a 30-06 with a 150 grain SGK and still use that bullet today. That bullet does tremendous damage to a whitetail. With heart/lung shots some of the deer dropped in their tracks but the vast majority took off like they weren't even hit. Of course they didn't run far.
Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store; not a government agency.
I have been running 90 grain NBT's for many years. Bullet performance has always been outstanding. Youngsters and ladies appreciate the low recoil. I have filled many a doe tag with this load, and never had a problem recovering game.
Which brings up another subject. Would that buck qualify as a DRT? I have always interpreted DRT ("dead right there" or "dropped right there") as falling straight down and not moving on the bullet's impact. But upon questioning other hunters, some have said they consider it a DRT whenever they see animal fall, even if it runs after the shot.
Interesting question. Hadn't cogitated about it before, but I suppose one could argue that 100% of deer that are taken, are "DRT". Whether they drop on the spot or run 100yards, where ever they fall, they are: dead...right...there!
I’ve killed a few deer with a 243. They have all been with either a 90grn VLD or 80TTSX. One ran about 40 yards with crazy damage and massive blood loss(VLD) and all the others have not taken a step. I hunt with my 243 more and more.
A 6.5 creed or 260 have about the same felt recoil...
As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
Shot placement is paramount, as it is a small diameter bullet
size of the deer can make a difference on how far it runs after its shot too, mature Whitetail Bucks in Northern Minnesota are dang tuff and can go 100-150 yards sometimes and yes some don`t. years ago i shot a 205 lb. field dress 10 pt. with a 243 Win. at 125 yards this buck did the Lone Ranger front end leap in the air and ran into the swamp,no blood trail in the dead grass ,so i kept making bigger circles and finally found this buck 150 yards plus away. when field dressing this buck bullet hit right where i aimed the heart was in 4 pieces ,yes i got the buck,i knew i hit this buck but i was not happy with no blood trail . recoil does not bother me so i purchased a 7 mag then after a few years i felt the 257 Weather Mag. with my handloads work best for me, these bigger bucks don`t go far now,many of these bigger bucks drop on the spot too sometimes and always leave me a good blood trail using this faster nasty 257 Weatherby Mag. but for kids ,ladies and people with a recoil problem a 243 Win. is still a good choice. > i wanna mention this too, my daughter who is 5 ft. 5 inches maybe 110 lbs has shot deer with a beat up old 7 mag of her husband`s and i always ask my daughter " Dani" how was the recoil when you shot that deer and her answer has always been i never felt any.
Killed one of my largest whitetail bucks on the wall with a Remington 700 .243. Dropped like a rock and never moved @ 150 yards. Its all about bullet placement....
Since I just finished re-scoping and working up a couple of deer loads for my current .243, a Howa Alpine, I slogged through this whole thread (a painful experience where the pissing matches occurred ). As I did, I thought a lot about the deer I've killed, including a couple with .243s. As JB said, almost all the chest-shot deer travelled a ways after the hit, from a few yards to well over 100. The shortest runs were made by deer that were either hit in the heart directly, had fragments strike the heart, or where the heart was essentially disconnected because the plumbing connecting it was cut. Those deer tended to stumble along a short way and just flop. None made the oft-reported mad dash of 100 yards or so before falling, 20 or 30 max is more like it. Both deer killed with a .243 did that. The difference between them is the one shot with a 100gr Partition left a good blood trail almost from the beginning because of the exit hole, while the other shot with a Sierra Pro Hunter of the same weight bled very little, even where she flopped and died maybe 20 yards from where she was hit. Deer shot with larger rifles generally followed the same pattern, the difference mainly being the amount of blood-shot meat created by fragments from the heavier bullets. My conclusion is that no matter what rifle I'm using, I want a bullet that will make two holes from any reasonable angle, and I also want to hit the heart if possible because not only does it cause an instant total loss of blood pressure and massive blood loss, but also because hits in the lower chest begin leaking blood almost at once if the bullet exits. I'd like to try the high-shoulder shot, but during our rifle season on public land, deer are seldom standing still when I shoot them.
The two loads I settled on are the 100gr NP over H4831SC and the 95gr NBT over H4350. I know the first one will work, and according to most reports here, so will the second. Not sure I'll even get this rifle out this year, unless I need to "change my luck" at some point.
Operator error is harder with the light kickers. Have a 243 project in the works that involves shooting hogs on a golf course at night, HOA approved. Going to test the 100 gr. Speer BTSP. In this case hoping for no exit and short to no running off hogs. I will be shooting at necks, heads and maybe a high shoulder/ spine hit. Can't have these stinking hogs running off to be found in some rich guys backyard.
Gee, If one is worried about the 243 cartridge/bullet combo, don`t use it. Step up to the .25 cal. Not many mentions on the "Fire" of problems with the old 250-3000. It also has lite recoil. I have owned and used the 243, also load 95 grn. Nosler BT for a friend for deer. He`s a cool and good game shot. I don`t know how many animals he has killed, cause he also shoots crop damage..but I keep getting his empties to refill. No problems I`m aware of.
As I get older and have less interest in recoil, I'm looking harder and harder at the 243. I just read the thread about using the 243 on white tail deer, and it seems like some folks are pretty sold on it with heavy bullets.
I can figure out the rifle part of things, but from an ammo standpoint, what does it take to ruin your chances with a 243 on deer? I know that shot placement matters and that I shouldn't use a bullet that's too light, but what else could go wrong?
Okie John
From an ammo standpoint what will ruin your chances with a 243 on deer is not having any ammo in your gun. What also could go wrong is that you have a broken firingpin, your scope is solid but your barrel is bent at 45deg angle, or you left your cleaning rod in your barrel. Those could be contributing factors to a lack of success.
My daughter in law the EMT worked at a US Forest Service rural station, while going to college, one of her side duties at the station was to validate filled deer tags,(required in Calif). They briefly examine the carcass, check the hunter's ID, check to see the tag is properly filled in. But she, as a gun gal and hunter from childhood, frequently questioned the hunters about their kill if they were friendly types. She reported the bucks with multiple wounds were mostly shot with .22 centerfires and .24 centerfires and amazingly with .300 magnums (?). I'll let you fellas draw your own conclusions if any from her totally informal survey.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Bullet weight and bullet constructions are 2 different things.
I also have heard a lot of storied about deer "getting away" after being hit with 243s. I have also hear a number of identical stories when the shot was made with a 30-06, several with 7MM mags and quite a few with 300 mags and one that got away after being hit with a 45-70.
Any bullet is bad to get hit with for the one getting hit. How bad depends on a lot of different things. But in my 1/2 century of killing things, the 2 factors that seem to be constant for the best kills are #1 straight penetration with an exit and #2 some degree of expansion or tumbling of the bullet.
The bullet must strike the game in the right place,and that "right place" is about what is inside the game, not a place on the hide. Bullet holes do the killing. The bullet is just a tool to make that hole.
So a bullet that doesn't go through the game at the angle is should can cause a lot of problems. All bullets can sometimes do weird things, but some do it a lot of the time, and some do it about 1 time in 5,000. The ones that break up badly and come apart are the ones that have the greatest percentage of bad results. As I said above, NO BULLET wound can be good for the animal of man hit, but the degree of how bad is variable. I have been hit myself 2 times by bullet and 2 times by fragments, and I am still writing this. Why? None of them were serious wounds because none were in the "right place" (wrong place for me)
In killing game, if you shoot a bullet that will go through and exit at the angle you need it to, and if you place the bullet at that spot and correct angle, you will kill cleanly in probably 99.5% of the shots regardless of what gun or cartridge you fire it from. There are oddities. But the REASON we can call them oddities is how rare they are. I had one last season in November. I killed a white tail with a 300 Savage and my 1st shot was perfect in where I placed it, broadside on the right side of the chest almost perfectly centered but the bullet went in about 2" and turned to the left 90 degrees and went through the deer almost the whole way, and was found about 1" from the skin in the right rear ham. Distance was about 160 yards and the bullet was a Nosler Ballistic Tip HUNTING (not the old BTs that were so prone to blow up) The deer ran about 80 yards after the hit and the next bullet was a head shot. My experience with the new BTs from mid velocity guns has been pretty good except for this one deer. Why? Only God knows.
A good strong bullet for killing deer becomes more important in my opinion, as the bullet gets smaller. I have owned two 243s in the past and one 6MM Remington. I used 100 grain Nosler Partition in all 3 rifles on every deer I ever shot with them, and every one was a one shot kill, none of them ran far (longest was about 25 yards) and all had exits.
I like a bigger rifle for most of my hunting, but I LIKE them, I don't feel I NEED them.
if you use an 80 grain Barnes I think you'd be as well armed for deer and probably better armed then someone else shooting a 7 Mag with a poor bullet that breaks up in the first 2" of penetration.
Excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Liberalism is a cancer Support Christian Family values
There is a huge difference between bullets of the same weight.
Construction and design matter a lot! A Berger 100 gr bullet is not definitely not the same as a Nosler Partition or Barnes TTSX of the same weight. This is true for all calibers-not just the lightweight I used as an example.
Liberalism is a cancer Support Christian Family values
My daughter in law the EMT worked at a US Forest Service rural station, while going to college, one of her side duties at the station was to validate filled deer tags,(required in Calif). They briefly examine the carcass, check the hunter's ID, check to see the tag is properly filled in. But she, as a gun gal and hunter from childhood, frequently questioned the hunters about their kill if they were friendly types. She reported the bucks with multiple wounds were mostly shot with .22 centerfires and .24 centerfires and amazingly with .300 magnums (?). I'll let you fellas draw your own conclusions if any from her totally informal survey.
Not knowing where those wounds were, I'd not draw any conclusions from that other than the deer with multiple wounds were killed by hunters who couldn't shoot for shyt. I've killed dozens of deer with .223's and .243's and none required a second shot.
I killed my largest mule deer with a Model 70 .243 and a hand loaded 100 grain Hornady BTSP over 30 years ago. Last year, my wife killed her first deer ever with a Browning BLR in .243, with a hand loaded 100 grain Speer and my hunting buddy has taken 2 cow elk with a .243 and Nosler Partitions. No problem with any of those kills and all were 1 shot. True, 4 animals isn't a definitive test, but I think a .243 with a bullet around 100 grains is plenty for deer.
Just my opinion but I'd say one group of dedicated .243 shooters are fine shots, surgical maybe.....kind of like the chukar hunters that do well with a 28 ga. These hunters with veternarian's knowledge of anatomy would do well with a .22 Hornet. Then there is a more sizeable group that are not riflemen, know nothing of anatomy, totally unaware of the term "bullet construction", shoot at a road sign to sight in, fire maybe 10 shots a year...with predictable results. All this can be said of any cartridge, but it seems a lot of them select the .243. Which ain't the .243's fault.
Last edited by flintlocke; 05/28/20.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Just my opinion but I'd say one group of dedicated .243 shooters are fine shots, surgical maybe.....kind of like the chukar hunters that do well with a 28 ga. These hunters with veternarian's knowledge of anatomy would do well with a .22 Hornet. Then there is a more sizeable group that are not riflemen, know nothing of anatomy, totally unaware of the term "bullet construction", shoot at a road sign to sight in, fire maybe 10 shots a year...with predictable results. All this can be said of any cartridge, but it seems a lot of them select the .243. Which ain't the .243's fault.
You're not wrong. When I've seen the .243 "fail" it's been the wrong bullet chosen, often combined with the wrong shot angle and/or bad weather and tracking conditions. A quartering to or away deer that gets no exit wound and runs off into a pine/briar thicket that is full of existing deer tracks can be hard to find in the dark. An experienced hunter who marks his deer's location before he pulls the trigger and sends a good-penetrating bullet on its way stands a much better chance. If it's not rainy and nasty and you are shooting Partitions, a .243 will generally treat a hunter well if he understands what he's working with.
Just my opinion but I'd say one group of dedicated .243 shooters are fine shots, surgical maybe.....kind of like the chukar hunters that do well with a 28 ga. These hunters with veternarian's knowledge of anatomy would do well with a .22 Hornet. Then there is a more sizeable group that are not riflemen, know nothing of anatomy, totally unaware of the term "bullet construction", shoot at a road sign to sight in, fire maybe 10 shots a year...with predictable results. All this can be said of any cartridge, but it seems a lot of them select the .243. Which ain't the .243's fault.
You're not wrong. When I've seen the .243 "fail" it's been the wrong bullet chosen, often combined with the wrong shot angle and/or bad weather and tracking conditions. A quartering to or away deer that gets no exit wound and runs off into a pine/briar thicket that is full of existing deer tracks can be hard to find in the dark. An experienced hunter who marks his deer's location before he pulls the trigger and sends a good-penetrating bullet on its way stands a much better chance. If it's not rainy and nasty and you are shooting Partitions, a .243 will generally treat a hunter well if he understands what he's working with.
yet these same people say it's a good choice for women and kids? a 30-06 round placed badly won't magically make the deer recoverable. it's laughable the arguments people make. I've seen several deer killed with a .223 with adequate bullet placement. I've seen poor placement from a 12 ga slug through the front shoulder and the deer ran 2 miles and another 1/2 mile shot through the hind quarter/guts. most damage control folks I know use 204's and 22-250's for a lot of work on critters bigger than deer. making the argument that "I'm not a good shot so I'll use a bigger gun" is dumb at best, irresponsible at worst
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
Although it runs counter to freedom loving Americans, there is an answer. You should have to demonstrate safety and competency with the firearm of your choice before you purchase a license. Many states require it for CCW permit. I think most countries in Scandinavia require it. It's not real difficult, I think in Sweden you have to hit a stationary moose target and a running moose target at 80 meters, offhand. After all, we take driving tests (thank God), pilot training, talk about boat licenses now (that test should require the applicant to be on crack from what I see on local lakes) and don't forget, you need a license to drill a well.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
I haven't had a failure with a 243 in whitetail. Be Well, Rustyzipper.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
I really honed my blood trailing skills when my friend started using a 243. One thing I cannot fathom is the number of hunters that apparently cant resist the urge to use the lightest varmint bullets they can find on deer. WTH? If it's a 243 and its deer, for Gods sake use a well constructed bullet. How hard can it be to grasp that?
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
Although it runs counter to freedom loving Americans, there is an answer. You should have to demonstrate safety and competency with the firearm of your choice before you purchase a license. Many states require it for CCW permit. I think most countries in Scandinavia require it. It's not real difficult, I think in Sweden you have to hit a stationary moose target and a running moose target at 80 meters, offhand. After all, we take driving tests (thank God), pilot training, talk about boat licenses now (that test should require the applicant to be on crack from what I see on local lakes) and don't forget, you need a license to drill a well.
An odd notion to be coming from the State of Jefferson.
The present system is just fine. Passing a competency exam doesn't convey judgement or presence of mind to anyone. Deer are large targets and easy to kill. Running game targets are poor simulations for teaching how to hit anything except maybe moose or running boar. Deer, like Tigger, like to bounce. From my discussions with other hunters, many already pass on moving game unless it's very close or already wounded. That's my practice, and how I trained my sons.
The last thing we need is another way for Antis, many of which already infest our F&G establishments, to futz around with our hunting privileges.
I really honed my blood trailing skills when my friend started using a 243. One thing I cannot fathom is the number of hunters that apparently cant resist the urge to use the lightest varmint bullets they can find on deer. WTH? If it's a 243 and its deer, for Gods sake use a well constructed bullet. How hard can it be to grasp that?
Better learn your buddy to shoot, my feeling is you would be tracking just as much with a larger cartridge/caliber.
While I have used 95 grain Partitons on my last 2 deer I never had much trouble killing them with 70 grain Ballistic Tips or an 80/85 grain Sierra. These bullets killed deer just as well as the Partitions have so far.
Ranges under 50 yards at most times as well.
Use something too stout and it punches through deer. I want some pretty good destruction to lay blood out if they shluld happen to run out of sight which has only happened to me a few times in the last 25sh years.
Deer around here arent that big, average buck might go 180# with a few 200-250# crtitters. Not exactly a large critter that's too difficult to get a bullet into.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 05/30/20.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Gamekings and Balistic Tips are my favourites but I don`t shoot any hyper velocity magnum cartridges.
Bullet failures:
120gr 7mm V-Max that hit the shoulder blade of a quartering on roe deer, changed course and slid under the skin, stopping when it reached the on side ham
100gr 6mm Pro Hunter, same case as above on a very large red deer
120gr 6,5 TTSX that zipped through the lungs of another roe deer
107gr 6mm Matchking, same case as above
187gr 8mm that made a grenade like wound upon hitting the humerus of a roe deer
All deer were retrieved and butchered. Some were finished off with a second shot, some were found with the help of my Bavarian Mountain Blood Hound.
The use of a tracking dog is quite popular in Europe but you don't seem to use them in America... aren't they allowed or what? Apart from being a great companion when I spend time a field alone, in the cabin or when driving to and from my hunting lease, it can provide an unvalualbe help to track a wounded deer, or finding a dead oneshot at last light, for example.
Here is Mauser, with a nice buck I shot at the edge of a young oak tree forest. Hit in the lungs, it jumped in the air and was on a dead runf for 200 yds. An easy job for Mauser!
I try to keep a tracking dog all of the time. The current one is a small, cream colored, long haired dog my wife got from the dog pound. She did not know much of anything when we got her, but now is a great dog, except for the shedding. Follows a trail real good. In the past, I had good luck with Great Pyrenees. miles
Pappy 348, I hear you, the notion of "qualifying" through another government entity....not my best thought or finest moment. I guess there is no substitute for hunting ethic learned at our father's side.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Some people over estimate any cartridges ability. "If it goes bang, dead deer!" Until bambi runs off. Then they can't believe it.
It's usually the other way around. Guy whacks a few deer with a .30-06 and sees them run 50 yards before they fall. He reasons that if they run 50 yards after taking one through the lungs from a .30-06 they'll go at least twice as far with a .243. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Pappy 348, I hear you, the notion of "qualifying" through another government entity....not my best thought or finest moment. I guess there is no substitute for hunting ethic learned at our father's side.
Hey, we're just brainstorming here. Mighta seemed like a good idea at the time.
I am a bit disappointed that no one picked up on my Winnie The Pooh reference, "Deer, like Tigger, like to bounce..
Musta watched that movie a hundred times while my kids were growing up. Tigger's voice by Paul Winchell, the puppet guy.
Some people over estimate any cartridges ability. "If it goes bang, dead deer!" Until bambi runs off. Then they can't believe it.
It's usually the other way around. Guy whacks a few deer with a .30-06 and sees them run 50 yards before they fall. He reasons that if they run 50 yards after taking one through the lungs from a .30-06 they'll go at least twice as far with a .243. Nothing could be further from the truth.
This many times over
Beware of any old man in a profession where one usually dies young.
I absolutely love my 2x 243 but a pure lung shot without an exit on a very large aware deer can cause longer runs and very occasionally (like once in a lifetime) you can get a freak failure to die.
Dear 100yds reaching up to a tree branch. Good rest, sierra 85gr bthp @ 3,200fps. Perfect shot, great reaction. Leave alone climb into stand for 75 minutes. End of legal light go find deer. Bedded and still alive. It gets up and runs. Leave overnight, come first thing - dead. Perfect double lung, not a huge amount of lung damage and holes in ribcage sealed by skin when buck resumed normal position from having been reaching up.
I know of one other similar occurrence with same bullet and stretching buck (deer not found this time). It's my opinion that the ballistic tip works better.
I absolutely love my 2x 243 but a pure lung shot without an exit on a very large aware deer can cause longer runs and very occasionally (like once in a lifetime) you can get a freak failure to die.
Dear 100yds reaching up to a tree branch. Good rest, sierra 85gr bthp @ 3,200fps. Perfect shot, great reaction. Leave alone climb into stand for 75 minutes. End of legal light go find deer. Bedded and still alive. It gets up and runs. Leave overnight, come first thing - dead. Perfect double lung, not a huge amount of lung damage and holes in ribcage sealed by skin when buck resumed normal position from having been reaching up.
I know of one other similar occurrence with same bullet and stretching buck (deer not found this time). It's my opinion that the ballistic tip works better.
The BTHP Sierra is too tough for my liking. Never seen a DRT in about 10 Missouri whitetails.
If you want an 85 grain bullet go to the SP Sierra Varminter. Will give golf ball sized exits and deer usually drop where they were standing when you pulled the trigger.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
I can't say that, in my case, it was a rush to the bottom. The first deer I killed with a rifle was with a .222 because that's the rifle I had at the time and it worked very well. The next one was with a .22 WRM. It worked too, but I don't use a RF any more. I do, however, use .223 a lot, probably more than any other cartridge these days. That said, I use a lot of other cartridges. They're all the same. We make way too much of all this.
I have no dog in this race not have I ever even hunted with a 243 much less shot deer with it. About 30 years ago my brother began hunting with one. After losing a few deer he wanted something that hit harder. He moved up to the 270 and his days of losing deer were over . My Father wanted the 243 and began hunting with it the next Fall. . His experience was very similar to my brother's. I had been loading for my brother and continued to do so for Dad. Because my shooting and handloading mentor liked Speer bullets it's what I loaded. I used their BTSP 100gr bullet that was supposed to be leaving the muzzle at just under 3000fps. After Dad lost one particular buck he was getting discouraged with the 243 so I told him let's change bullets. I loaded 100gr Nosler Partitions for the next few seasons and Dad never lost another deer! In fact his largest buck, 260lb on the hoof, fell to that load. But there was already rooted doubt because of their experiences. He sold the 243, moved up to the 270 and hasn't lost any with it. Dad will turn 85 later this month and his hunting days are now behind him. Just over a year ago they found he has liver cancer and it's been a long downhill slope for him since then. We're it not for the cancer I'm confident that he would be looking forward to this Fall /Winter and the long Louisiana deer season that he loves. As is so often said, "YMMV."
"I know you believe that you understand what you think that I said... But I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." ( A quote of my Father)
My wife and I have hunted deer here in Mid-MO for the past 20 years using mainly 7-08 or 284 win. The past 3 years I've taken 3 mature bucks using a 243 win shooting either 100 gr Partitions or 95 gr BTs, all from 100-150 yds. Can't tell the difference in how the deer reacts or in how far it runs. None of them ran over 40 yds. All died very quickly. Not a definitive sample size, but I have full confidence in the cartridge for the 180-220 lb bucks around here-. Sorry to hear about your dad's ailment, and I really like the quote in your sig line. God bless.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
Gamekings and Balistic Tips are my favourites but I don`t shoot any hyper velocity magnum cartridges.
Bullet failures:
120gr 7mm V-Max that hit the shoulder blade of a quartering on roe deer, changed course and slid under the skin, stopping when it reached the on side ham
100gr 6mm Pro Hunter, same case as above on a very large red deer
120gr 6,5 TTSX that zipped through the lungs of another roe deer
107gr 6mm Matchking, same case as above
187gr 8mm that made a grenade like wound upon hitting the humerus of a roe deer
All deer were retrieved and butchered. Some were finished off with a second shot, some were found with the help of my Bavarian Mountain Blood Hound.
The use of a tracking dog is quite popular in Europe but you don't seem to use them in America... aren't they allowed or what? Apart from being a great companion when I spend time a field alone, in the cabin or when driving to and from my hunting lease, it can provide an unvalualbe help to track a wounded deer, or finding a dead oneshot at last light, for example.
Here is Mauser, with a nice buck I shot at the edge of a young oak tree forest. Hit in the lungs, it jumped in the air and was on a dead runf for 200 yds. An easy job for Mauser!
Beautiful buck!!! Man I want to hunt Roe Deer they are number 1 on my wish list!
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
If you can’t kill deer with a .243 I doubt the cartridge is the problem.
I'm with you on this Blackheart. i killed a slew of 'em with my ol' 6mm Remington, the ballistic twin of the .243. But lost a few too. But after losing three or four I learned through my experiences with the 6mm AND my .270 that all bullets are not created equal.
I hear a lot of talk about people using Partitions on deer. This must be on deer much bigger than our Texas Whitetail. The only failures I've seen on these Texas deer with either the 6mm or the .270 were with bullets I believe to be too tough to expand fast on a relatively small bodied deer. These were both Speer bullets and I know from results on deer I did kill with them that they are tough bullets that don't expand well on smaller game. That's why I quit using them on deer. I can only imagine what a Partition would do on one. It would no doubt make a complete pass through with little expansion and not do a lot of immediately lethal damage as my youngest son has told me. He's the guy that has to pee on the electric fence to learn. He was always trying some expensive bullet on deer.
I came to what I believe is the rightful conclusion that Nosler Ballistics Tips (the newer and improved ones) and Sierra Game Kings will kill deer pretty much immediately if properly hit out of just about any cartridge. Note that I said DEER(Texas deer) not elk. And yeah, if you hit a shoulder or a ham with one you're going to lose some meat. If they're relatively close, like within 50 yards I like to shoot them in the neck or head, but if they're farther than that I like rib shots right behind the front shoulder. This I find to be more immediately fatal and is a very soft area to penetrate. Shooting them in the neck or head isn't as easy as it sounds. You have to aim for a specific place or you could just horrifically wound an animal but not put it down. That's why I don't take a neck or head shot if much over 50 yards.
Somebody on here has a sig line that says that if you want to put a deer down quick shoot it in the ear hole. This is precisely true in my experience because you need to take out his brain. When shooting in the neck shoot mid neck to high neck where the spine lays. That's what you have to hit to put a deer down immediately. Otherwise you might just take out his wind pipe which won't kill him maybe for days. He'll be 2 zip codes over before he dies. If you shoot at the head and hit the jowl or lower jaw, it's the same with hitting the wind piple. He'll just run off and die a nasty lingering death. A person needs to develope a little precision in his/her shooting.
I found the .243( Also 6mm Rem.) and the .270 about equally capable of downing deer. If you think through each shot and shoot for a lethal area you will have a lot better results over all.
BTW, I don't mean to talk like some numb nuts school teacher, I'm just typing as I think.
Last edited by Filaman; 06/06/20.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
I hear a lot of talk about people using Partitions from a .243. This must be on deer much bigger than our Texas Whitetail. The only failures I've seen on these deer with either the 6mm or the .270 were with bullets I believe to be too tough to expand fast on a relatively small bodied deer. These were both Speer bullets and I know from results on deer I did kill with them that they are tough bullets that don't expand well on smaller game. I can only imagine what a Partition would do on one. It would no doubt make a complete pass through (as my youngest son has told me they will do (He's the guy that has to pee on the electric fence to learn.) with little expansion and not do a lot of immediately lethal damage.
I don't believe you understand the Partition. The front half is deliberately made soft for quick expansion.
Even the 160gr .270, my personal idea of a good elk and moose bullet, produces significant carnage in ordinary whitetails, before making a nice exit hole for easy trailing, which so far has been totally unnecessary.
A very nice VA buck shot by my son with the 100gr .243 did manage to go about 50 yards, the farthest of about eight killed with NPs so far by my crew, all with good shot placement though.
I hear a lot of talk about people using Partitions from a .243. This must be on deer much bigger than our Texas Whitetail. The only failures I've seen on these deer with either the 6mm or the .270 were with bullets I believe to be too tough to expand fast on a relatively small bodied deer. These were both Speer bullets and I know from results on deer I did kill with them that they are tough bullets that don't expand well on smaller game. I can only imagine what a Partition would do on one. It would no doubt make a complete pass through (as my youngest son has told me they will do (He's the guy that has to pee on the electric fence to learn.) with little expansion and not do a lot of immediately lethal damage.
I don't believe you understand the Partition. The front half is deliberately made soft for quick expansion.
No I wasn't aware of that. I've never used them. I just took it from experience not to use a real tough bullet. Now you've got me curious. I may give them a whirl. I've heard they were the best elk and large game bullets. In fact I always said that if I got to go on an elk hunt I'd try them. That was before I acquired a couple of magnums. In fact whatever I take if I ever go elk hunting it will be stoked with Partitions. I have grown to trust them listening to people i trusted talk about them. Now you have me wanting to try them on deer. I always just figured they were an elk bullet.
Somehow living in Texas all my life with a chronic shortage of elk, I missed that in my edumacational process.
Last edited by Filaman; 06/06/20.
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I really don't understand the rush to the bottom in rifle calibers. It seems like hunters are trying to see how little they can get by with. Sort of like bragging about how small of a knife blade they can skin an elk with and so forth. I get the aversion to excessive recoil, especially the older I get, but there seems to more to it than that. Has killing a deer, an elk, or an antelope become so routine than guys need to do something different to keep the hunt interesting or to prove one's prowess? Genuinely curious.
My thoughts exactly. Over the years the wisdom I've gathered here is that the 243 is a magic death ray, but the .30-'06 need a partition to kill a deer.
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I'm in my 6o's with severe neck and shoulder arthritis and made the switch to a .243 about twenty years ago. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. I've used quite a number of different cartridges in the 95 and 100 grain category, and I learned a lot from a hunting friend who also used a .243. Here's what I learned. #1 Stay away from anything under 95 grains. #2 Stay away from hollow points (yes they do massive damage in the soft area of the lungs but will blow up on bone and a trackin' you will go) #3 Stick to bonded or monolithic bullets designed to hold together, e.g., Partitions, Fusions, Interlocks, etc. (good crop to choose from). If you don't trust me, then trust Warren Page, longtime hunter and outdoor writer(Field & Stream) who regularly took elk with a .243 using a Nosler Partition. This bullet will easily break bone and you don't have to worry about shoulder shots. It's the winning ticket for me, and, yes, you can use it on quartering shots. It drops deer like they're falling through a trap door. I'm always amazed by guys who say the .243 isn't a good deer rifle. Byron Dalrymble, another famous hunter/writer/editor (Outdoor Life) used a .243 took take hundreds of deer and wrote books about it that most of the guys on this forum, apparently, have never read.
Yeah, there's some relatively new stuff out there under 95 that I hear is good, like what you mention. I guess I'm just an old stick in the mud with my principal on biggest amount of lead I can throw at 'em with a .243. Another 100 grain to look at (haven't used it) is the Norma Oryx. Guys have used it to take deer sized animals and larger in Africa with the .243. Appears to have similar properties to Nosler Partition. Both are currently hard to find now.
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