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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,734
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,734 |
20 years ago our priest asked me to bring my gun to church. He was worried about bad things back then.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,648 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,648 Likes: 3 |
and is drawing upon a community of experts at his disposal. . Good one. It’s great the OP wants to be better with a handgun. He best get trained first.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59 |
I dont know if you guys mentioning an AR are serious or not but, my Dad (USMC 'Nam Combat Vet and very proficient shooter) was just tasked with setting up a security team at the church him and mom attend. Part of the set up is an AR with a high end EOtech optic. This rifle is stored in a locked closet with a metal door and frame in the unused locked choir loft. Dad or the one other guy (who is a former member of the 75th Ranger Regiment) who are designated to use it literally sit in the loft right next to the open closet during any service. They have a complete field of fire to anywhere in the sanctuary from this position. One armed usher is asked to sit along the center aisle in the back pew and the other known armed guys are asked to stagger themselves throughout the sanctuary. These members shoot at least with bi weekly at a members farm, several like dad are retired and shoot much more often then that.
The armed members are great but we started out by reviewing the physical security of the building. Some changes that were made include that all doors except the main entrance are locked at all times. The main entrance glass outside doors are locked when service begins and an usher(concealed carrying) must let in any late comers. The inner vestibule doors leading to the sanctuary are also locked during services with another usher opening those for people. Reminds me of high dollar banks in the Old West.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59 |
I remember, back in the late 1980s, speaking to a priest by the open door of his chambers (office?), and looking inside to see a Beretta 92 inside its open factory box sitting on a desk.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,951 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,951 Likes: 1 |
Church , funerals and weddings too .
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,675 Likes: 1 |
Anywhere you have the potential for emotions running high; that's where I want to carry.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 2 |
I’l take my chances. I don’t want to be sitting next to a guy that thinks he’s John MacClane just because he has a 9. You are a poser who has never seen a clue. I train about 4 hours/week w/ a group that varies from RVN vets to recent retirees from the GWOT including some old broads. The beauty of the pistol is that, to a skilled practitioner, it is an easily carried equalizer that is available to most and effective in the hands of those that make the effort. Some do. mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
If you don't have a defensive arm, sell your clothes and get one. I believe that is Christ said. Sell your cloak and buy a sword. For the time period, that was the state of the art for personal defensive arms that can be easily carried on the person. The Apostle Peter had a sword and used it to defend Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, when the Jews came to arrest him. In an an attempt to cut off a man's head, it appears the intended victim ducked, just in time, to keep from having his head severed from his shoulders, and "only" had his ear cut off!.
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,551 Likes: 68
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,551 Likes: 68 |
Anywhere you have the potential for emotions running high; that's where I want to carry. Family reunion or a tractor pull around here.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,297 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,297 Likes: 17 |
I'll start over, I won't lead off with the choir this time.
Our minister spent a fair amount of time this morning on safely issues. A car was stolen from the church parking lot last Sunday. She also gave a code word to alert all of us to danger.
I asked on my way out if I should bring my handgun with me. She quickly said yes.
Any thoughts on the subject? I go to a small one, about 100 show up every Sunday. At least 15 people there that I'm aware of carry, including me.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59 |
I’l take my chances. I don’t want to be sitting next to a guy that thinks he’s John MacClane just because he has a 9. You are a poser who has never seen a clue. I train about 4 hours/week w/ a group that varies from RVN vets to recent retirees from the GWOT including some old broads. The beauty of the pistol is that, to a skilled practitioner, it is an easily carried equalizer that is available to most and effective in the hands of those that make the effort. Some do. mike r Well said.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,008 Likes: 59 |
If you don't have a defensive arm, sell your clothes and get one. I believe that is Christ said. Sell your cloak and buy a sword. For the time period, that was the state of the art for personal defensive arms that can be easily carried on the person. The Apostle Peter had a sword and used it to defend Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, when the Jews came to arrest him. In an an attempt to cut off a man's head, it appears the intended victim ducked, just in time, to keep from having his head severed from his shoulders, and "only" had his ear cut off!. I know.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,183 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,183 Likes: 7 |
If you don't have a defensive arm, sell your clothes and get one. I believe that is Christ said. Sell your cloak and buy a sword. For the time period, that was the state of the art for personal defensive arms that can be easily carried on the person. The Apostle Peter had a sword and used it to defend Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, when the Jews came to arrest him. In an an attempt to cut off a man's head, it appears the intended victim ducked, just in time, to keep from having his head severed from his shoulders, and "only" had his ear cut off!. Naaa. We are talking about Peter, the amazing colossal apostle, the first Pope, the Rock upon which Jesus built his Church. Peter was aiming for that ear. So by extension, you need to be good enough with your carry weapon to take off just the ear, leaving the skull intact. So you all need to follow the example of Peter and get in your reps each week.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
So Jesus built His church on Peter???? That’s a laugh...
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,183 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,183 Likes: 7 |
So Jesus built His church on Peter???? That’s a laugh... Tom, We can leave that for another thread. But Peters skill with a sword makes for a good excuse to buy more practice ammo and spend more time at the range.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,962 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,962 Likes: 11 |
Our church rarely sees 50 people. A lady divorced her schizoid husband who then started causing legal and criminal problems for family, then church members. Our pastor carries, we have a guy who stays in the hall area outside, and a couple in the church.
Security team? They would laugh, some retired military, some just hillbillies.
This all started before the big shootings, but has continued. Most days, there are at least 4 or 5 armed people there.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,275 Likes: 31
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,275 Likes: 31 |
We may have folks that things under control, we have a meeting Tuesday night, it should be a good one. I need to get to bed, thanks all the meaningful posters.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
I started carrying in church recently.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 1 |
I’l take my chances. I don’t want to be sitting next to a guy that thinks he’s John MacClane just because he has a 9. You are a poser who has never seen a clue. I train about 4 hours/week w/ a group that varies from RVN vets to recent retirees from the GWOT including some old broads. The beauty of the pistol is that, to a skilled practitioner, it is an easily carried equalizer that is available to most and effective in the hands of those that make the effort. Some do. mike r +100%
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,694 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,694 Likes: 12 |
Our church has uniformed officers on the premises whenever the church is open and plainclothes in the congregation during services. The possibility of collateral damage from untrained folks getting involved in any shooting situation that may arise is something many including myself are not comfortable with. Dealing with a shooter in church is best left to professionals familiar/trained to deal with threats like this kind of scenario may present. Some say the defense of our nation, our state, our family, our way of life, ourselves and on and on and on is best left to "professionals". I say they're full of chit. With an active shooter on site downside is minimal. I'll take my chances backing up Granny Bluehair anytime over being unarmed.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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