Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 308 verses the 300 win mag

He could see the difference from the 7 to the WEatherby in stopping power that is an advantage where we hunt.

The Handloader test was a good one... right click on the pic and choose "view image" for the closeup of results, then enlarge again with a left click.

It's true, velocity is generally the enemy of deep penetration...

First off I don’t have a 300 wm , but I do hunt , shoot , and hand load for 308 and 300 WSM.

With all due respect, that's a sample of one elk shot with the .300. Hard to draw conclusions from that.

The Handloader test was a good one... right click on the pic and choose "view image" for the closeup of results, then enlarge again with a left click.

It's true, velocity is generally the enemy of deep penetration...

Ralphie,

"I could be wrong but I still think some bad shooting that is blamed on magnums is just bad shooting."

Yes, it is. Some people will be mediocre shots no matter what they're shooting, even a .22 rimfire, due to lack of practice or physical coordination, poor eyesight (even with "corrected" vision and a scope), or excitement when shooting game.

Theodore Roosevelt is a good example--well, except for scopes, which he apparently never used. He was an avid shooter, who practiced all the time, but his eyesight wasn't great even with the glasses of the day, and he apparently got excited, so took shots and chances he shouldn't have--even after he'd hunted considerably for decades.

But my major point is that all humans are individuals, with varying characteristics, including pain threshold, eye/hand coordination, etc. And recoil tolerance can change over time. My wife is a good example. She didn't start shooting rifles and hunting seriously until her mid-30s, but turned out to be a natural in both. After working her way up through a pellet rifle (so she could practice on magazine photos of big game in the garage) to a .22 rimfire to centerfires, she got really good, partly because we live where constant practice on small varmints is possible.

She got REALLY good, and fast, when we lived in a country house where her 2nd-story office window overlooked our garden. She kept a .22 next to her desk, and when a Richardson's ground squirrel showed up in the garden, she'd shove her wheeled office chair over to the window, and whop! That also translated to shooting big game, and she eventually shot rifles up to .416 Remington Magnum with no problems. Among other rifles, she shot a 6-1/2 pound .30-06 VERY effectively, with 180-grain handloads at 2800+ fps.

But about 12-15 years ago she started getting recoil headaches. This can happen as we get older, because we're less flexible, and recoil tends to affect some people much like a concussion (though even doctors can disagree about the definition of concussion). She eventually switched to a 6-1/2-pound .308 Winchester as her "big" rifle, and used it very well with 150-grain premium bullets, both in North America and Africa.

The headache problem, however, grew even worse, and eventually we had to add a small muzzle brake to the rifle--and handload 130-grain bullets to 150-grain velocities. This has proven to be a good solution, since her headache problem has apparently stabilized. The last elk she killed was the biggest cow either of us has taken, as large as many mature bulls, taken at around 250 yards quartering toward her. The 130-grain TTSX broke the left leg just above the big shoulder joint, traveling through both lungs--and the cow staggered 20-25 yards, obviously done for, before falling.

This is just another example of how humans are individuals, which people like peeshooter fail to recognize--along with the fact that bullet quality and placement make more difference than the amount of powder or recoil. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that some hunters (usually but not always men) equate recoil with "killing power."

But the assumption that all humans are exactly alike (and especially like "me") is a common human failing.

Did some posts go missing on this thread? I thought I put one up............

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Penetration given the same bullet is caused by how much velocity it strikes the target with.
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Same bullet, velocity rules. But higher velocity does not always mean greater penetration, as has been proven many times.

Actually it does. The fact you can't grasp this is telling.

If you restrict my statement to monos or spitzer solids and selected FMJs, I would agree that higher velocity will generally result in greater penetration but I would not contend that is always the case.. With jacketed bullets, lower velocities will often result in higher penetration, as has been demonstrated many times.

Again, that depends. What is a fact, is you dont have a clue.

The Handloader test was a good one... right click on the pic and choose "view image" for the closeup of results, then enlarge again with a left click.

It's true, velocity is generally the enemy of deep penetration...
[image deleted

It surely is with lead and copper bullets that tend to expand to s wide frontal area. ….

Yes they did. I remember your post, thought it was good and commented to that effect. What I added was " I can't think of any shots I'd take with a .300 magnum that I wouldn't take with a .308."

I think there was a problem with the whole site/server yesterday

Mule Deer, of sorry I did not know we were talking about cull operations. Also I'm not talking about high volume shooting. I have seen so many kids and women take elk and deer with my friends 7mm RUM he loans to his clients when I get to tag along. It recoils more than my 300 Win mag because it is lightweight. How many shots do you take on an elk? 1, 2, maybe 3? Did you feel the recoil on those shots with any cartridge? I doubt it!

Higher velocity, same bullet, more penetration...….unless the bullet blows up.

Sometimes slower bullet holds together better at closer distances. Faster bullet delivers more horsepower at all distances.

You need to understand how your bullet will perform at whatever velocity you are driving it. Pick the right one for the job.