Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What is the most sensible big bore for white tail and black bear?

If your range is <150 yards, the 45-70 is superb.

If you need more range, then the 35 Whelen or 338 Win.

MM

358 Win
45-70
35 Whelen

My choice would be something in .35 caliber with a bit more steam than the .35 Remington. That leaves the .356 Win., (good luck finding one or ammo) .358 Win. (Somewhat of a same problem.) .35 Whelen/.350 Rem. mag. (same thing in different pacakages for all practical purposes and the .358 Norma Magnum. (Too much of a good thing for the game in question.
So my first choice would be the .358 Win. and choice #2 the .35 Whelen. I'd just as soon forget about the others. The way some ammo companies arbitrarily drop ammo or loads because the bean counters don't like sales figures make me want to look at these cartridges in a more practical manner. The .358 Win can in a pinch be made from .308 Win. brass just by running the .308 bras through the .358 sizing die. The same goes for converting 30-06 brass into .35 Whelen. The .350 Rem. Mag. brass can be made from other magnum brass but it's a lot more work. I belive that brass for the .358 Norma can be made by just running .338 Win. mag. brass through a .358 Norma sizing die, but I am not totally sure on that point.
Now unless the bear and hogs are a lot bigger in you neck of the woods, I'd go with the .358. Make sure the rifle has a 1 in 12" twist barrel. I've heard that the new Ruger in .358 Win. has that twist as does the Browning BLR.
If you go with the Whelen, you can always load down to .358 specs for less recoil and still have a rifle for bigger game with full power loads, should you so choose.
Me? I have five rifles in .358 Win. and three in the .35 Whelen and I hunt out here with them in the wide open spaces of the west. Well, at least I do when I can draw one of the tags that this state is so stingy with.
FWIW, the .358 with a stiff load using the 200 gr. Hornady spire point will shoot a hell of a lot farther than most "egg-spurts" in the gun rags wiill give it credit for doing. It ain't just a brush gun.
Paul B.

Don't forget the 38-55 handloaded will do the job just fine.

I guess I'd better don my flack jacket before typing this so here goes.

I've found that big bores don't anchor whitetail unless you get a CNS hit. I've seen a lot of frustrated guys that, when they finally find their deer, find that their big bore drilled them right where it should have mattered only to see them run off into the nearest thicket or swamp making recovery no less than an ordeal.

If you want to anchor them then something like a 270 is ideal. Whitetail respond quickly to shock and I mean the kind that you can deliver with a 270

My personal favorite is a Remington Titanium in 300SAUM with a 165gr Partition.

It'll slam through them from ANY angle and they'll often hit and skid if they're running or drop literally in their tracks if they're standing still.

The Partition won't ruin hardly any meat and you can eat right up to the hole.

That same load should easily take a blackie or a big hog with it too.

Long live the Partition!!!

OH.. And I like the Titanium magnum because it's very light and yet accurate and the McMillan stock somehow works so much magic that it doesn't kick any worse than a regular old lightweight 308!

Long live the Titanium!!!

This year I'll be trying out a 7mmSAUM Titanium and I'm betting it gives me similar results but the jury is still out.

$bob$

LD,

Sure glad you put on your flak jacket 'cause here it comes.....

While I truly LOVE the 270, for close range work, I've never seen anything put a deer down like a 400 grain slug from a 45-70, even my other beloved, the 338.

As for the Titanium, unless you've restocked it, the factory stock is made by Bell & Carlson, not McMillan.

I do however, love the Partition, too. Can't wait to try the new E-tip when they get 'em out.

MM

As an apparently wise man mentioned above, the .38-55 fits the bill almost perfectly, more so it's stouter reincarnation as the .375 Win.

scott

Ken Howell hit the nail on the head.
The 358 Winchester.

Power, range, and small guns.

I have three .358 caliber rifles and a 357 Maximum T/C Pistol.

I think Ken Howell nailed this sucker to the wall.

.358 Winchester
.444 Marlin

338 Win mag for deer and black bear under 150yrds? must be bullet proof where you guys live. 45-70, 358 Win and if you want a 338, here is where the much malign 338 Fed would fit perfectly, hits hard, small package, factory loadings and you don't have to download.

For up to 150yrds I like a 12ga slug gun. Mines a semi-auto and will keep 3 slugs within 2" at 50yds. The ballistics of some of the new slugs look like they would make hitting at 150-200yds quite doable with a bit of practice. Plus the make a BIG hole.

If you want to be both sensible and have an edge. I would suggest that the new 338 Federal would be ideal. Bigger bore without kicking the snot out of you. It would be nice in a Model 7 Remington for a stalking rifle I think or handy in a stand too!
I shoot a 35 Whelen 700 Classic and it is a good compromise. It is heavy enough that you don't get beat up at the bench like a magnum would do to you, but yet it isn't to heavy to carry on a deer drive. It would be nice to have a Sendero for stand hunting and a Model 7 for stalking or drives.
Even though everybody knows that bullet placement matters the most, you can't always depend on it because trees get in the way and animals have been known to jump or move at the critical moment because of squirrels, birds, etc. In light of Murphy's Law
I like to have an edge myself. If a 30-06 is good then a 35 Whelen is that much better because of the increase in frontal area and the heavier bullets. If you buy factory ammo then there isn't much to choose from, but if you handload you won't live long enough to try out all the possible choices in components.
Based on hunting deer in heavy cover for the last quarter of a century, these are my conclusions. If you are the type who has lots of patience and lots of opportunity to wait for a perfect shot then of course you can get by with a 243.
whelennut

Having never hunted bear� 450 Marlin, or .338WM.
Gotta love either one.

My experience with the 45-70 is that it knocks things over, so a good choice. I would have to agree with the above choices for shots under 150 yards, 338 Fed, 338-06, 358 Win, 35 whelen, 350 RM, 35 remington (or any of the larger bore lever calibers). Oddly enough for the choices of game, I would not think it necessary to go big bore, as I have seen the .243 Win drop deer like a rock in those ranges. (not that I am advocating that)

I have a 35 rem, 338-06, 45-70 so I can speak for those.

well...
i've killed a ton of deer with 12 ga slugs over the years, and it does an ok job... drops them quicker on average if you bust up their chassis...
i've used a .44 carbine a few times and it does a good job too.. but...

if'n i want to kill a deer like lightning hit it, i'd use an 85 bthp sierra from my .243

I have killed bear and wild hogs with the .45-70, and a ton of deer with a 12 ga. slug gun[Indiana doesn't have a rifle season, until this fall]. I would get the .45-70 guide gun. If you handload, load up some 300 gr. nosler partitions to about 2000 fps. Sight in for about 2" high at 100 yds. Drop at 200 will be in the 6-7" range. The ole 45-70 will absolutely trun deer, hog, and blackbears inside out. Mine has a 1-4x leupold on board, and is very accurate. Its easy to carry and quick to point. I'm taking mine to hunt plains game in the limpopo area of RSA in July 2008.

Mad Dog

The question you asked stated big bore, I would go .375 H&H for a big bore. If you are just trying to define a great caliber for both deer and black bear, I would go 338 WM

LD

I have experienced the phenomenon you descibed. Big bore pass through with little expansion and a long tracking job on a whitetail. The culprit was a 225 partition from a 2600fps load in a 35 Whelen.

This problem is easily corrected with a bullet of lighter construction. Nosler told me the 35 caliber partitions are built tough for big tough critters like big bears. Two bullets that work great on deer,hogs and simillar game are the 200 grain hornady spire point and the 200 grain pointed core lokt. Both are awesome and will expand well, penetrate great, and produce big exit wounds at whelen velocity. Can't see why they wouldn't be great in 358 winchester too.

Britt

Whoa, that's news to me. When and where will rifles be allowed? I'd like to try that, 'course most of the places I hunt there a rifle is not much of an advantags. But I did say most...

If you ain't hunted deer in the brush with a 45-70 and moderate loads, you just ain't lived! My favorite is the Marlin 1895G guide gun. Mine currently has a Williams WGRS aperture rear sight and the factory front sight, though I have killed deer with a scope onboard. I filed the brass front sight at an upward angle to get rid of the ridiculous black finish on it and reflect light from above back to my eye so I can see it when it gets late. I can shoot almost as well with that sight combination as with a scope, and there's no unsightly scope to ruin the natural feel and traditional lines of the rifle.

I keep the loads moderate: 300 grain bullets with 45 grains of H4198, or 40 grains with 400 grain bullets. The first GG I owned would print either load in one ragged hole at 100 yards as long as I cared to pulled the trigger. Hopping up a 45-70 to any degree attainable will never make it shoot flat, so I accept the range limitation and keep the loads fun. None of the dead deer seemed to care.
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