Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire 2 cops, 50 shots, zero solid hits.

Those officers might have life to live on their own time even if a range is available.

Nothing new here! I’ve read of such the last 60 years! Move on folks!

You should read public comments about the muscled up cops. They are criticized too.

The heavy cops are criticized for being heavy.

The skinny cops are told they should muscle up.

The muscular cops are called roid ragers, compensators etc.

Can you post a picture of an officer you consider to be the ideal officer build?

You're missing the point. If a "civilian" with his own full time job and everyday life responsibilities can find the time and the money to practice shooting on their own, why shouldn't a cop, whose life (or others) may depend on it, be able to?

Ah, so the reason cops can't shoot is because they are, flawed from the get go, not the cream of the crop and cannot be trained, Therefor the solution is to not waist money trying to train those that are not able to be trained. Just send them out in the field and hope for the best.

I guess you could say that they killed two birds with one stone, Kept the costs down by not training those that cannot be trained and kept the costs down by not paying a livable wadge in the first place.

Got it thanks.

He explained that in his post above. Cops are not on the top tear of the smart pole and most cannot be trained anyway.

Who said anything about being "muscled up"? I was commenting on weight/height proportionate. Also, the complaint with muscled up cops isn't their physique but their actions. Some are obviously using 'roids and their attitude shows that.
PS What do you do for a living since you're taking this awfully personal?

First off, thanks for your service Paul and Semper Fi. You've made a lot of realistic observations that are spot on and especially the ones on training taking officers away from their beats. When officers aren't handling calls, most people expect them to be patrolling their assigned beats and making sure the criminals know any given area has cops in it. A good cop can catch a lot of stuff before it blows up into something worse and make a given area that much safer.

Steve4102 raised some valid points about training. Some departments have ranges where cops can train on their own time. A lot of departments aren't that lucky. That doesn't mean an officer can't find another non-range location to shoot but such location won't have all of the range equipment available. One can never shoot or practice too much. Several officers can even get together and practice but it's not the same as training. When a police department conducts training, they establish tactics, procedures, etc. that all officers on the department are made aware of. For instance, you will likely have established some set of hand signals if you train with other officers off duty but the rest of the department won't know what those hand signals mean. Your group of officers will know what each officer in a team of 2 or more is supposed to do when handling a tactical situation but other officers in the department won't. None of this means you can't practice and train on your own and become more proficient but it makes a huge difference if the whole department is on the same page because the department has established tactics, communications, etc. that you can practice further in small groups.

Back in the day, I took pistol training seriously then finished first in my class with a perfect score and after that went to the department range about twice a month and shot at our indoor range a couple of times a week. I knew that Model 19 was all there was between me and a headstone if it came to a shooting. I only fired one round on duty in 3 years, thankfully. Most cops have trouble hitting a bull in the butt with a banjo under stress, which is understandable...

Keystone cops cartoon

What you fail to realize is law enforcement is just like every profession. There is a bell curve, some are exceptional some are terrible and most are right in the middle. And that can be an overall curve, or you can even break it down to the different things police are required to do. (Like shooting, driving, report writing, interviews, etc).

I'm sure you're the best at what you do....or did 30yrs ago....boomer.

Overachiever!

I get that point. I also get reality. Reality is that few people I know in any profession work in their own time to get better at their profession. A cop with a wife that works and kids may not have much of a life at all at home. Let me again point to the pool of candidates. How many of those do you think are capable of mastery of every aspect of their job and can achieve that mastery independently. Frankly, I am not very good at independent learning. I do much better in a classroom or master/apprentice relationship.

We are focused largely on the gun here. In terms of legal liability, what would you suspect the largest legal liabilities are for enforcement agencies? When you start parsing that out you can better understand the complexities of comprehensive training and why self-training is normally not practicable.

Pellet gun or not, you don't brandish any gun around cops or in public. It is pretty difficult to differentiate between a pellet gun and a real gun in confusing and rapidly changing situations. Unfortunately, the cops missed (and given the post-traumatic disorders that might ensue, that might be a favorable thing).

A lot of creative reading went into that post. Not so much technical writing. Interestingly enough, mastery of the written English language is another discipline in which an officer needs to excel.
It is readily apparent you aren't interested in thoughtful exploration of the topic. To that end I'll bail on you with the encouragement that if you have it all figured out, you really need to get into consulting. You'll make millions.

I am not taking this personally at all. My point was that whatever a cop's build is, people will criticize it. Just another place in which a cop can't win in the eyes of the public.

Paul, I would have to agree with you. I research every police / shooter(s) deadly force engagement in my area that I can dig up information on, and believe this to be very much the case.

LOL, you are the one that said the Jury Pool of LEO is less than average due to the yearly salary offered.

You are the one that said, NOLA can't get qualified LEO due to yearly salary.

You are the one that made this excuse for their inability to "perfect" their occupation.

Paul,
You don't strike me as the type to intentionally get under someone's skin..
Actually you generally seem to choose your words and actions to be very civil...

Syeve
All one had to do is listen to the breathing of the guy with the camera after, at most a minute and a half, probably less, of "encounter" to know he was out of his element with a sky high adrenaline level..

Not that a body can gives any sort of decent sight picture, but whether intentional or not it seem like"fire for effect" and maybe he will drop it...
Dumping half a second magazine seems tactically unwise..potentially fatal..
I agree a shotgun would have been more effective and thought most marked vehicles had a locking rack on the passenger side of the radio equipment...
They were on their heels when they went in...

Just curious if you do the research professionally or for personal reasons.

As a follow up, how many times did officers drive in closer than they would if they had to do it all over again? I ask that because in this case it appeared they could see the subject from a distance but closed in more than I would have. They did do a good job of using the vehicle for cover. It's interesting how often they don't.