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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
^^^ From very far away.  Preferably find reverse if you're too close and park at an angle so you can roll out with the car between you and the bad guy with a long arm. Another gunfighter. Super.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All of this does bring up the question of how is a LEO supposed to exit a vehicle while under fire from a perp firing upon them with a longarm?
Did you watch the video or did you jump straight to dumb ass?
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,080 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,080 Likes: 4 |
... please go and handle your problems on your own. That's a BullShÌt response, and you know it. Or was vigilantism legalized and just missed the memo?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
All of this does bring up the question of how is a LEO supposed to exit a vehicle while under fire from a perp firing upon them with a longarm?
Did you watch the video or did you jump straight to dumb ass? A Cop car doors armored? Or would a .223 rapid-fire go right through in a hail of misery?
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All of this does bring up the question of how is a LEO supposed to exit a vehicle while under fire from a perp firing upon them with a longarm?
Did you watch the video or did you jump straight to dumb ass? A Cop car doors armored? Or would a .223 rapid-fire go right through in a hail of misery? You didn't watch the video, did you?
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
^^^ From very far away. Preferably find reverse if you're too close and park at an angle so you can roll out with the car between you and the bad guy with a long arm. Hey Tks Sir, and thanks for all you do or did, whatever  "Ahem"..... DeFlave, are you listening?..... This is how to answer a question without being a "ahem"..... dumbass......
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
^^^ From very far away. Preferably find reverse if you're too close and park at an angle so you can roll out with the car between you and the bad guy with a long arm. Hey Tks Sir, and thanks for all you do or did, whatever "Ahem"..... DeFlave, are you listening?..... This is how to answer a question without being a "ahem"..... dumbass...... Thank God for you two. Tell us more.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
All of this does bring up the question of how is a LEO supposed to exit a vehicle while under fire from a perp firing upon them with a longarm?
Did you watch the video or did you jump straight to dumb ass? A Cop car doors armored? Or would a .223 rapid-fire go right through in a hail of misery? You didn't watch the video, did you? Sure did, turns out bb guns got lousy penetration, prob'ly why the armed services don't use 'em.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Sure did, turns out bb guns got lousy penetration, prob'ly why the armed services don't use 'em.
Thanks, teacher. Sharp as ever.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
Sure did, turns out bb guns got lousy penetration, prob'ly why the armed services don't use 'em.
Thanks, teacher. Sharp as ever. Hey Tks Sir, and thanks for all you do or did, whatever
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
OK course bb guns WILL penetrate empty beer cans. Back in grad school when I lived in a shack on a deer lease we would stack up actual walls of empties after parties, in the event of a home invasion or shack invasion by a bb gun-armed perp, said walls of empties would have provided insufficient cover. Good to know
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
OK course bb guns WILL penetrate empty beer cans. Back in grad school when I lived in a shack on a deer lease we would stack up actual walls of empties after parties, in the event of a home invasion or shack invasion by a bb gun-armed perp, said walls of empties would have provided insufficient cover. Good to know Sharp as ever.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,564 Likes: 12 |
I think you'll find that the kind of situation that played out here is one of the more common deadly force situations officers find themselves in. Using deadly force immediately upon exiting the vehicle and with the vehicle in close proximity. Yet none of the departments I worked with or trained with had realistic range scenarios to replicate the situation. I know range days cost time and money, and departments have limited budgets, but this very situation needs more training focus. I should say unless things have changed in the past 15 years. Paul, I would have to agree with you. I research every police / shooter(s) deadly force engagement in my area that I can dig up information on, and believe this to be very much the case. Just curious if you do the research professionally or for personal reasons. As a follow up, how many times did officers drive in closer than they would if they had to do it all over again? I ask that because in this case it appeared they could see the subject from a distance but closed in more than I would have. They did do a good job of using the vehicle for cover. It's interesting how often they don't. Paul, I do it for my own personal interest.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
OK course bb guns WILL penetrate empty beer cans. Back in grad school when I lived in a shack on a deer lease we would stack up actual walls of empties after parties, in the event of a home invasion or shack invasion by a bb gun-armed perp, said walls of empties would have provided insufficient cover. Good to know Sharp as ever. Says you, suddenly faced with the prospect of disposing of thousands of empties.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,564 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 44,564 Likes: 12 |
I think you'll find that the kind of situation that played out here is one of the more common deadly force situations officers find themselves in. Using deadly force immediately upon exiting the vehicle and with the vehicle in close proximity. Yet none of the departments I worked with or trained with had realistic range scenarios to replicate the situation. I know range days cost time and money, and departments have limited budgets, but this very situation needs more training focus. I should say unless things have changed in the past 15 years. Paul, I would have to agree with you. I research every police / shooter(s) deadly force engagement in my area that I can dig up information on, and believe this to be very much the case. In terms of the nature of the encounters, the FBI would agree with you. As I recall, they figured around a third of encounters were in or around vehicles. Let's add in what John the video narration guy say's about multiple attackers. After reviewing 2500 video's about a third involved multiple aggressors. So, about 10% of the time you could be looking at multiple subjects in or around vehicles. It's something to think about. Add in Cheyenne's research on handgun ammunition.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
Let's add in what John the video narration guy says.. .
General word of warning concerning John boy other videos he suggests firing through ones windshield, in your OP vid. he says the opposite. How is the average armed good citizen supposed to figure what they should after listening to him?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,949 Likes: 5 |
Let's add in what John the video narration guy says.. .
General word of warning concerning John boy other videos he suggests firing through ones windshield, in your OP vid. he says the opposite. How is the average armed good citizen supposed to figure what they should after listening to him? Years ago, back in the heyday of the 'Fire a story was related of a guy up in Alaska on a fishing trip who was terrified of bears. One night, on hearing one outside the tent he discharged his .44 magnum through the closed tent, blowing out both eardrums. The other guy in the tent was still inside his mummy sleeping bag and wasn't hurt. I'd be highly reluctant to fire a handgun inside a closed car.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,625 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,625 Likes: 2 |
Perhaps a shotgun would have worked better. I think you'll find that many patrol officers don't have ready access to a shotgun. Why not?
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,755 Likes: 12 |
Let's add in what John the video narration guy says.. .
General word of warning concerning John boy other videos he suggests firing through ones windshield, in your OP vid. he says the opposite. How is the average armed good citizen supposed to figure what they should after listening to him? Years ago, back in the heyday of the 'Fire a story was related of a guy up in Alaska on a fishing trip who was terrified of bears. One night, on hearing one outside the tent he discharged his .44 magnum through the closed tent, blowing out both eardrums. The other guy in the tent was still inside his mummy sleeping bag and wasn't hurt. I'd be highly reluctant to fire a handgun inside a closed car. Tell us more about something you've never done....
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,606 Likes: 19
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,606 Likes: 19 |
Perhaps a shotgun would have worked better. I think you'll find that many patrol officers don't have ready access to a shotgun. Why not? I later qualified the comment by saying unless things have changed in the past 15 years. 15 years ago most of the patrol officers I knew (along the Gulf Coast) didn't have a shotgun in the cab of their vehicle. Some had them in their trunks. That may have changed. Current LEOs should be able to speak better to what's going on in the field today.
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