Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Trayvon Martin II

Well, golly, Hastings knows he was casing the joint. So, obviously, this can be done. I thought you could answer ANY question.

Wrong. Besides I have seen film of his walking prior to being scared away by the man across the street. And he sure wasn't running inside the house. I'm not taking up for the white boys but just saying it is a good idea to watch out for what a walking or jogging stranger may be up to. You know, neighborhood watch. You reckon I might get some hostile attention if I were go on a pedestrian tour of the burned out sections of Detroit or public housing in Chicago or New Orleans?

There are lots of jog-walk routines out there. I always thought they were conditioning strategies and never realized they were really "casing" strategies. Is "casing" a crime, BTW?

Where is this video of him walking and being shooed away by the neighbor. Share the link, please.

Yes exactly.

Here is one: https://i.4cdn.org/gif/1589867275423.webm

This couple was obviously out for a nighttime jog and looks like maybe she made a wrong turn. The jogger with her helpfully pointed her back to the right path. Very common behavior when one of the partners is a jogger.

I don't know how to share a link but the Atlanta Journal AJC has a video that shows Mr. Arbery walking onto the property and into the house and then an interested neighbor from across the road walks out to the road. Probably the first one that called police. No audio but Arbery comes out sees the man and takes off at a run down the street. People cruise neighborhoods on foot all the time for all kinds of reasons. Casing for purposes of recon for coming back to steal is an unprovable crime but it is always good to let strangers know they are being watched. Not a good idea to chase one down and get into a life and death struggle over a weapon. We were taught that weapon retention was to be done at all costs. That's why I carry well concealed and don't brandish. Jr. was absolutely fighting for his life in trying to retain his weapon but I believe he will be faulted for starting this encounter.

Again, nobody is claiming Arbery was an angel.

But where is the proof, which could gain a court conviction, that Arbery committed any crime in the last year. Where is the evidence that Arbery committed any felony on the day he died. McMichaels was unable to articulate such evidence during his 911 call to the Police on the day of the killing. Despite being asked multiple times by dispatch, "What is he doing wrong?" McMichaels was unable to give any answer.

That should have been a clue it was time to disengage and hope the jogger did not press charges against him for chasing him down the street with a truck.

TRH, there are many ways in which to carry a shotgun on the street. Most of us with any smarts at all keep it in a case. So we do not frighten the snowflakes.

Or you can hold the shotgun in one hand, whistling as you go toward or from the gunshop, with the muzzle pointed directly at the ground.

No reasonable man would feel threatened by your presence.

Or you could have just been racing around the streets in your pickup truck trying to corner some dude. And then when you get him worn down enough that you think he will be easy to handle, you can jump out of your truck barking orders and holding the shotgun at port arms, or as any would recognize, a ready position.

Any reasonable man would, at that point, believe his life to be in danger.

And at that point any reasonable jurist would convict you of menacing, brandishing, using a firearm in the commission of a crime, and yes assault, as you displayed the intention and the capability of inflicting lethal force upon another.

Now, you are guilty of a felony. And as the aggressor, you have lost the right to claim self defense in your trial.

The courts and the public do have the McMichaels on video tape committing the felony of assault. And that makes the death of Arbery murder. As any reasonable person should have foreseen that as a likely outcome of their actions.

Again, just like the armed robber in the liquor store, C store, or bank. He will claim he never had the intention to kill anyone. But any reasonable man would have foreseen that as a likely outcome of using a weapon in the commission of a crime.

The right to open carry does not equal the right to menace, pursue, brandish, detain, threaten, or assault.

Hell, not very long ago you told us all how threatened you felt just because some person looked at you as he drove past in a pickup. Just imagine how you would have felt if he had slammed on the brakes, started making demands, and was holding a shotgun at the ready.

Would you have used lethal force to defend yourself at that point. Or would you have cowered, put yourself in a defenseless position, and hoped he had no actual ill intent toward you.

Or was your situation different because the guy in the pickup was actually a "jogger" while you on the ground were not a "jogger"?

The video where they said it to him right before he tried to take a shotgun away from Travis.

What would any of us do if challenged by a regular Joe or Jane. Should we all be killed for refusing to take orders from random people on the street.

Note: actual cops were able to deal with Arbery on multiple occasions and never found the need to kill him.

This does not make things look better for the McMichaels.

Again, you lose the right to claim self defense after you chase someone down with a motor vehicle and put said person in fear for his life. That makes you the aggressor.

This is not 1875 Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi we are talking about anymore. The"jogger" is no longer required to answer "Yes Massa" or "No Massa". And folks are no longer allowed to lynch "Uppity Joggers"

Clearly, IS, we disagree on a host of interpretations of what went on here.

Come on 100 pages.

That's what I'm shooting for

Did anybody find the 4 minute video I keep hearing about?

Nor were McMichaels allowed to place others at reasonable fear of imminent physical harm absent certain knowledge of a felony act. You Sir, have just made the case for the prosecution of McMichaels.

Because Arbery would have been expected, (as would any reasonable person) to feel at physical risk when the dudes chased him down in a pickup, and one of them jumped out barking orders with a shotgun in the ready position. Was not Arbery expected to fight for his life at that point?

Did not Arbery have as much right to feel threatened as you do?

Well said.

why do you all keep bringing this crap up?

What we have here is a split along the lines of fundamental world view. It reminds me of the public reaction to the OJ verdict. Each side saw it from completely conflicting perspectives. There was no point in debating it. Thomas Sowell wrote about this in his book A Conflict of Visions.

And if you personally choose to make a habit out of harassing innocent people in public places in the manner you describe, you better be prepared for a few black eyes, bloody noses, and perhaps even the need to use that CCW you carry.

And again, since you would be the aggressor, invading peoples' personal space, asking demanding questions, not complying when said person told you to Fug Off and leave them alone, you would be the instigator. The one guilty of a criminal act.

The one of him joggin', or stealing sheit? 😁😁

I was under the impression that there was a longer version of his running down the road and that there was more than one encounter between Aubery and the McMichaels.

But all I've been able to find is the shorter 30 second or so version.