The Bible also says a day in Gods eyes is as a thousand years to man. So a literal 7 human or earth days may not be to God. Another fact. Honey bees use logarithms to tell distance to flowers to other bees with a brain the size of a pinhead. Some plants cannot survive without bees and the bees cannot survive without flowering plants. Which evolved first?
They co-evolved. Originally, the plants benefited from incidental contact with the bees, but didn't depend on them. Gradually, they came to depend on them. Same with the nectar vis a vis the bees.
Show your documentation for your information, please.
Since all of science is in agreement on the matter, due to overwhelming proof, the burden is yours.
If the earth were billions of years old, then nuclear decay would have made all uranium turn into lead by now.
This is simply not true. Over 99% of the naturally occurring uranium in the world is U-238, and its half-life is 4.5 billion years. That means that we have half as much U-238 in the world now as we did 4.5 billion years ago when the earth was formed. It also means that in another 4.5 billion years, we will still have half as much U-238 in the world then as we do now. And in another 9 billion years, we will still have half as much U-238 in the world then as we will have in another 4.5 billion years from now.
This goes back to assumption on top of assumption on top of assumption. You assume there was no daughter product in the beginning. You assume the rate has never changed. You assume none has been leached out or migrated into your sample. And there are many times more radiometric systems that show a much younger earth than show an older earth. The scientists who use the slow ones do so because they know they need billions of years for evolution to function. They are like the media. Dishonest.
With respect, Ringman, you do not understand ratioactive decay.
Different isotopes decay at different rates. Uranium? Billions of years. Carbon 14? Thousands of years. Some of the trans-uranium elements (those with atomic numbers higher than 92, which have been created by colliders) decay in seconds.
If one believes that the universe is only 7,000 years old, which you do but I don't, a 4.5 billion year old uranium half life would do nothing to prove or disprove that. All that would mean is that most uranium has not decayed yet. You have better arguments to make.
You are assuming God did not create a mature universe. How old were the plants the animals and people ate? God instructed his creation to multiply. How could they do that if they were less than mature?
Gen 1:9-13 9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.
So, in a 24 hr stretch of time..... 1. God caused dry land to appear. 2. God caused plants to grow (actually sprout from the earth, so it began as a seed...... not a mature plant) 3. The seed sprouted and grew to maturity. 4. The mature plants produced new seeds and/or fruits. 5. Multiple generations grew and covered the earth.
Either the Bible is accurate or it's not. If it's 99% accurate it leaves man to decide for himself what 1% is not from God. So 1% of 100% gives every man 100 chances to decide where the Bible is wrong.
But if we use the true Textus Receptus to translate from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic into English (as was done by the comity under the orders of King James) we do not find contradictions.
You can't use Science to prove Jesus was the Son of God, and the Scriptures themselves will tell you that. It must be a matter of faith. But the history and the science of scripture is easy to examine and it's withstood the test of millions of challenges over many many years.
I no longer waist time arguing with anyone who have made up their mind before they hear the argument on both sides. Again the scriptures tell you to do that. Many (if not most) people who argue against the Bible have never read it let along studied it. They were taught a line by someone they want to believe, and put their faith in their education (so called). If they have already made up their mind and are closed to any other information it's best to allow them to go on with their lives and let God Himself tell them ----------at the time of His choosing.
But to address the "Day=Age theory" of Bible reading I would point out that God made the plants and trees on day 3.
Day 1 he made the heavens and the Earth calling it THE first day in Gen 1:5. On day 2 God made the firmament which we'd call the atmosphere today (the Birds fly in the open firmament) and called it THE 2nd day in Gen 1:8 On day 3 God made the continents and caused plant life to grow and cover the face of the dry ground Gen- 1 :11 12 and 13. Calling it THE 3rd day! On day 4 God made the Sun and the moon.
OK stop............ #1 Why would God make the sun after he made light. Later in scripture in a few places God is said to produce light and make light in Himself, so there would be light before God made the sun and stars, but would it not seem logical to make the sun before the earth? I believe God did it that way and recorded it that way for only 1 reason. To have a record that He was "the light' even before he gave us a star (the sun) to light the planet earth and also to destroy the day-age theory that would come a few thousand years later for any believe in the Holy Scriptures. All plants need light and God made light on THE 1st day. But if the Sun is also source of light, and the days are "ages", the plants and trees would have to live for a long period of time without any sunlight , weather it's 100 years, 1000 years, 10,000 years 10,000,000 and any other length of time.
So we come to the "1%" I spoke of first. Either the scripture is true or it's not. If any part is not, which part do we choose to be gods ourselves and say we know better?
NONE of the forgoing will have any positive effect on anyone who has chose to disbelieve the Holy Bible and that OK with me. I am writing only to other Believers in the Holy God and those that believe the Bible is truthful, accurate and trustworthy. Speaking for myself, I do!
Hebrew writing is clear and every rabbi will tell you the clear meaning of all the writing about days in Genesis are written to mean literal days as we know them today, of about 24 hours. God said he made plant life before the sun . Go read it yourself and see from the reliable Textus Receptus (not the Alexandrian texts which gave us the non-reliable translations of Scripture) If you wish to believe the "Day-Age" theory you are forced to then say you are "intelligent and educated" past the level of the scriptures and you get to make the decision on what 1% (or more) of the Holy writings are inaccurate. If that is what you want to do that's between you and God, not you and I ----------or any other Christian.
But Genesis SAYS the plants and trees were made AFTER the sun moon and stars, so consider that in your beliefs as to the accuracy of the scriptures.
If the earth were billions of years old, then nuclear decay would have made all uranium turn into lead by now.
This is simply not true. Over 99% of the naturally occurring uranium in the world is U-238, and its half-life is 4.5 billion years. That means that we have half as much U-238 in the world now as we did 4.5 billion years ago when the earth was formed. It also means that in another 4.5 billion years, we will still have half as much U-238 in the world then as we do now. And in another 9 billion years, we will still have half as much U-238 in the world then as we will have in another 4.5 billion years from now.
This goes back to assumption on top of assumption on top of assumption. You assume there was no daughter product in the beginning. You assume the rate has never changed. You assume none has been leached out or migrated into your sample. And there are many times more radiometric systems that show a much younger earth than show an older earth. The scientists who use the slow ones do so because they know they need billions of years for evolution to function. They are like the media. Dishonest.
With respect, Ringman, you do not understand ratioactive decay.
Different isotopes decay at different rates. Uranium? Billions of years. Carbon 14? Thousands of years. Some of the trans-uranium elements (those with atomic numbers higher than 92, which have been created by colliders) decay in seconds.
If one believes that the universe is only 7,000 years old, which you do but I don't, a 4.5 billion year old uranium half life would do nothing to prove or disprove that. All that would mean is that most uranium has not decayed yet. You have better arguments to make.
You are assuming God did not create a mature universe. How old were the plants the animals and people ate? God instructed his creation to multiply. How could they do that if they were less than mature?
No comment on rhat post. I was merely stating that radioactive decay rates did not refute--or confirm--your point of view.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
Christians should follow the advice of St. Thomas Aquinas:
"In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches (Gen. ad lit. i, 18). The first is, to hold the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation, only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it, if it be proved with certainty to be false; lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing."
Something isn't a fact if there are alternative explanations for what is observed.
Your belief is in evolution, mine is in creation. Neither can be proven, but there is evidence for both. Here's the rest of my post which Hawkeye responded to:
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Valsdad
I thought you folks hashed this all out a few month back.
Big thread, many pages.
Can't remember who won.
Yep, been beat to death several times over many pages. Nobody "won" then, and nobody is going to win now. You will either die and find out what actually happened, or you will just die. Me, I think I know what happened and I expect to have it confirmed.
Sad that many allow the theory of evolution to prevent them from believing in Jesus.
On my screen there are 19 pages so far....and nobody's won...and nobody's going to win.
I'm not sure this is about winning or losing. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe, and jaguartx and others merely stating their acceptance of the presence of God in their life and beliefs. It amazes me that the the non-believers in God must continuously blow these threads up to validate their reasoning and prove the believers in the existence of God wrong and ridicule them for their beliefs. I tend to side with the opinion of renegade about the whole thing and see no need to quote Einstein or the Freedom From Religion website to prove someone else with a different opinion wrong if they don't believe the same as I do and aren't willing to validate my beliefs also. If you don't believe in a greater presence than man, just move along and be comfortable in your own opinions and beliefs.
Something isn't a fact if there are alternative explanations for what is observed.
Your belief is in evolution, mine is in creation. Neither can be proven, but there is evidence for both. Here's the rest of my post which Hawkeye responded to:
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Valsdad
I thought you folks hashed this all out a few month back.
Big thread, many pages.
Can't remember who won.
Yep, been beat to death several times over many pages. Nobody "won" then, and nobody is going to win now. You will either die and find out what actually happened, or you will just die. Me, I think I know what happened and I expect to have it confirmed.
Sad that many allow the theory of evolution to prevent them from believing in Jesus.
On my screen there are 19 pages so far....and nobody's won...and nobody's going to win.
I'm not sure this is about winning or losing. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe, and jaguartx and others merely stating their acceptance of the presence of God in their life and beliefs. It amazes me that the the non-believers in God must continuously blow these threads up to validate their reasoning and prove the believers in the existence of God wrong and ridicule them for their beliefs. I tend to side with the opinion of renegade about the whole thing and see no need to quote Einstein or the Freedom From Religion website to prove someone else with a different opinion wrong if they don't believe the same as I do and aren't willing to validate my beliefs also. If you don't believe in a greater presence than man, just move along and be comfortable in your own opinions and beliefs.
What exactly is an antelope sniper?
FUGK CCP
It’s time to WAKE UP GOD BLESS THE USA WWG1WGA THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES
All this is interesting, we should be wearing out the knees on our trousers, not our keyboards. Only One Thing is important.
Originally Posted by wabigoon
All this is interesting, we should be wearing out the knees on our trousers, not our keyboards. Only One Thing is important.
Amen, brother.there is only one true way to Heaven and that is through our Savior, Jesus Christ!
This my way or the highway nonsense is why i rejected the Christian religion. I really believe that many other religions are just as "good" as yours. There are many non-Christians that I would like to meet and sit and talk with. They were good people too.
'
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
All this is interesting, we should be wearing out the knees on our trousers, not our keyboards. Only One Thing is important.
Originally Posted by wabigoon
All this is interesting, we should be wearing out the knees on our trousers, not our keyboards. Only One Thing is important.
Amen, brother.there is only one true way to Heaven and that is through our Savior, Jesus Christ!
This my way or the highway nonsense is why i rejected the Christian religion. I really believe that many other religions are just as "good" as yours. There are many non-Christians that I would like to meet and sit and talk with. They were good people too.
'
Yes, sir. There have been lots of good people on Earth.
FUGK CCP
It’s time to WAKE UP GOD BLESS THE USA WWG1WGA THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES
Something isn't a fact if there are alternative explanations for what is observed.
Your belief is in evolution, mine is in creation. Neither can be proven, but there is evidence for both. Here's the rest of my post which Hawkeye responded to:
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Valsdad
I thought you folks hashed this all out a few month back.
Big thread, many pages.
Can't remember who won.
Yep, been beat to death several times over many pages. Nobody "won" then, and nobody is going to win now. You will either die and find out what actually happened, or you will just die. Me, I think I know what happened and I expect to have it confirmed.
Sad that many allow the theory of evolution to prevent them from believing in Jesus.
On my screen there are 19 pages so far....and nobody's won...and nobody's going to win.
I'm not sure this is about winning or losing. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe, and jaguartx and others merely stating their acceptance of the presence of God in their life and beliefs. It amazes me that the the non-believers in God must continuously blow these threads up to validate their reasoning and prove the believers in the existence of God wrong and ridicule them for their beliefs. I tend to side with the opinion of renegade about the whole thing and see no need to quote Einstein or the Freedom From Religion website to prove someone else with a different opinion wrong if they don't believe the same as I do and aren't willing to validate my beliefs also. If you don't believe in a greater presence than man, just move along and be comfortable in your own opinions and beliefs.
Christians are instructed to spread the gospel, so when discussions on the origin of the world pop up, we engage in these debates out of love for our fellow man and concern for their souls (even though it seems futile). I am not sure what motivates non-believers.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
A question for the literalists and young Earth believers.
We know there have been nine species within our Homo genus, including the "Red Deer Cave People" in China, H naledi in S Africa, the hobbits of the Phillipines- H luzonensis, H rhodesiensis of Central Africa.
We know that H neanderthalensis and H denisova lived alongside H sapiens and crossbred between the species. Many of us today carry DNA from one or both of these ancient species.
Where did the archeological evidence of these protohumans come from?
How did these other species cross breed with God's special chosen creation?
How many proto humans had a soul? Did Cro-Magnon have a soul?
Which cross breeds might have had a soul?
Finally, how did this all happen in 6000 to 7000 years since creation?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
Something isn't a fact if there are alternative explanations for what is observed.
Your belief is in evolution, mine is in creation. Neither can be proven, but there is evidence for both. Here's the rest of my post which Hawkeye responded to:
Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by Valsdad
I thought you folks hashed this all out a few month back.
Big thread, many pages.
Can't remember who won.
Yep, been beat to death several times over many pages. Nobody "won" then, and nobody is going to win now. You will either die and find out what actually happened, or you will just die. Me, I think I know what happened and I expect to have it confirmed.
Sad that many allow the theory of evolution to prevent them from believing in Jesus.
On my screen there are 19 pages so far....and nobody's won...and nobody's going to win.
I'm not sure this is about winning or losing. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe, and jaguartx and others merely stating their acceptance of the presence of God in their life and beliefs. It amazes me that the the non-believers in God must continuously blow these threads up to validate their reasoning and prove the believers in the existence of God wrong and ridicule them for their beliefs. I tend to side with the opinion of renegade about the whole thing and see no need to quote Einstein or the Freedom From Religion website to prove someone else with a different opinion wrong if they don't believe the same as I do and aren't willing to validate my beliefs also. If you don't believe in a greater presence than man, just move along and be comfortable in your own opinions and beliefs.
Exactly. But, they cant just move on and be happy with their belief. Why?
Satans minions or trying to convince themselves? Like, if a believer cant answer me this, or convince me to my satisfaction, he must be rong. Therefore, I can rest assured i will die and be eaten by worms. I knew i was only flesh and bone and no soul and had no spirit. Whew! I'm nothing more than a dog or monkey or amoeba.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
It would be more accurate to say that you want your opinion of what is truth to prevail. In other words, you want to win, so thanks for clearing up part of my uncertainty about your motivation. But why so you want to win? What difference does it make if I have a different opinion of truth from yours? If there is no heaven or hell, who should care what I believe?
Like I said, we will all die; and we will either find out the truth is, or just cease to exist.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
