Some people appear to have religious beliefs that are so shaky and tenuous that they’re afraid the least little puff of scientific knowledge will blow it away...! Even though their very lives are made WAY better by science every single day of their life...! If one’s belief in God depends upon the non-existence of dinosaurs or the universe not being billions of years old, then they are in more trouble than they know regarding their faith...and how weakly convicted they appear to be regarding their faith.
If you start from the premise that there is no God or if there is, he couldn't or didn't create the world as the Bible states, then of course you will believe in evolution. At that point, there is really no other explanation for what we see around us. However, if you start with the premise that there is a God and he could indeed create the world as described in the Bible, then you will find that evolution is not the irrefutable fact that it is portrayed as being.
Oh, so if you don't just start by examining the evidence, but just pre-suppose that some god did it, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary.
What evidence do you have that the Bible is "True"? Why should anyone believe anything in the Bible, or any other holy book for that matter?
You and I have had this discussion before and I am not going to go around in circles with you again on it. You demand evidence, but are dismissive of interpretations of the evidence that don't conform to your beliefs. But you just confirmed what I said: You have made it your premise that there is no God; in other words, you have pre-supposed that no god "did it." If I didn't believe in God, I'd believe in evolution just as you do.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
If you start from the premise that there is no God or if there is, he couldn't or didn't create the world as the Bible states, then of course you will believe in evolution. At that point, there is really no other explanation for what we see around us. However, if you start with the premise that there is a God and he could indeed create the world as described in the Bible, then you will find that evolution is not the irrefutable fact that it is portrayed as being.
Not so.
Science did start with the premise that the Bible was 100% true. The problem was that the things that scientists discovered, starting in about the 1700s, showed that it couldn't be 100% true.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
Curious, did we ever find all of those missing links (water to land, ape to human, reptile to bird, etc)?
Oh, my gosh, yes. Long ago. For you not to know this tells me you've been entirely incurious about the subject. Just watch the series I posted episode one of earlier in this thread. It will take you one afternoon to watch all of them. Each installment is less than ten minutes.
Here, I'll post it again:
This atheist activist clown ran for the Texas state senate a few years ago (unsuccessfully). He is so hung up on evolution that his name has now evolved to just Aron Ra.
This guy is just another purveyor of baloney. He gets to a good start when he characterizes taxonomy and and the “tree...or bush” of life as ..... what did he say....? What. ..... “Comparative anatomy?” Well, folks, that is not proof of evolution.
Later he claims that there are many transitional forms and Seems to claim justication whe he flashes a picture of archaeopteryx (?) ..... which ...recently anyway, most respected paleontologists classify as a bird.
He finishes up with the “Phylogeny Challenge” which is nothing but a facetious call for folks to get sucked into a never to end Brandolini “do loop.”
As has been said before, the Bible states THAT God created and does not give details of HOW he did it.
Last edited by TF49; 06/17/20. Reason: Left out a word
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
There was no episode about Noah's Ark. You must have switched to something else he produced. Just watch the Systematic Classifications series to the end.
Thanks, but no thanks. I reckon I wasted as much time as I’m willing to. Interesting, but not compelling.
If y’all find that indisputable physical evidence on which real science is based, let me know. Thanks.
Sapiens is a pretty good read on the subject, biological science did a documentary as well as PBS, Also your inner fish by PBS. Plenty of scientific studies, documents. If you are expecting someone on the fire to present to you overwhelming scientific evidence, than you are going to be disappointed. Bible stories are compelling, but written by men, for what reason...? To explain something they did not understand? To bend others to their will? If god wanted man to follow and believe he sure made it difficult to do so.... to what end does this serve? Why did man distort the word of god? (I guess we all know the answer to that)....Why so many religions? Why would a loving god condemn a man of low intelligence because he didnt have faith?
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
If you start from the premise that there is no God or if there is, he couldn't or didn't create the world as the Bible states, then of course you will believe in evolution. At that point, there is really no other explanation for what we see around us. However, if you start with the premise that there is a God and he could indeed create the world as described in the Bible, then you will find that evolution is not the irrefutable fact that it is portrayed as being.
Not so.
Science did start with the premise that the Bible was 100% true. The problem was that the things that scientists discovered, starting in about the 1700s, showed that it couldn't be 100% true.
I don't think we know what the mindset of scientists was at that time.
The biggest problem our country has is not systemic racism, it's systemic stupidity.
I am more inclined to this than any religion that requires tithing to be a member.
Animism (from Latin anima, "breath, spirit, life")[1][2] is the belief that objects, places and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.[3][4][5][6] Potentially, animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, weather systems, human handiwork and perhaps even words—as animated and alive. Animism is used in the anthropology of religion as a term for the belief system of many indigenous peoples,[7] especially in contrast to the relatively more recent development of organised religions.[8]
Although each culture has its own different mythologies and rituals, "animism" is said to describe the most common, foundational thread of indigenous peoples' "spiritual" or "supernatural" perspectives. The animistic perspective is so widely held and inherent to most indigenous peoples that they often do not even have a word in their languages that corresponds to "animism" (or even "religion");[9] the term is an anthropological construct.
Largely due to such ethnolinguistic and cultural discrepancies, opinion has differed on whether animism refers to an ancestral mode of experience common to indigenous peoples around the world, or to a full-fledged religion in its own right. The currently accepted definition of animism was only developed in the late 19th century (1871) by Sir Edward Tylor, who created it as "one of anthropology's earliest concepts, if not the first".[10][11]
Animism encompasses the beliefs that all material phenomena have agency, that there exists no hard and fast distinction between the spiritual and physical (or material) world and that soul or spirit or sentience exists not only in humans, but also in other animals, plants, rocks, geographic features such as mountains or rivers or other entities of the natural environment: water sprites, vegetation deities, tree sprites, ... . Animism may further attribute a life force to abstract concepts such as words, true names or metaphors in mythology. Some members of the non-tribal world also consider themselves animists (such as author Daniel Quinn, sculptor Lawson Oyekan and many contemporary Pagans).[12]
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
IF christians still had their way, They'd convert people by the sword, Then burn them at the stake for being a heretic.
Christians do have their way. They even founded the greatest country on earth with tolerance non-believers.
Curious, did we ever find all of those missing links (water to land, ape to human, reptile to bird, etc) or are we still relying on faith in an evidence-based practice?
The evidence is there, including transitional fossils.
IF christians still had their way, They'd convert people by the sword, Then burn them at the stake for being a heretic.
Christians do have their way. They even founded the greatest country on earth with tolerance non-believers.
Curious, did we ever find all of those missing links (water to land, ape to human, reptile to bird, etc) or are we still relying on faith in an evidence-based practice?
The evidence is there, including transitional fossils.
At the end of the day, one must do his own investigation and let,those investigations... hopefully thorough and honest research.. lead him to conclusions or at least a “current way of thinking.”
Reliance on internet experts is fraught with error and pitfalls.
IF christians still had their way, They'd convert people by the sword, Then burn them at the stake for being a heretic.
Christians do have their way. They even founded the greatest country on earth with tolerance non-believers.
Curious, did we ever find all of those missing links (water to land, ape to human, reptile to bird, etc) or are we still relying on faith in an evidence-based practice?
The evidence is there, including transitional fossils.
. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe,
Where have I ever stated that No Form [of what you chose to call God ] exists?
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by ChuckKY
I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe,
Show me where I've asserted that there is not greater power than man in the universe.
That's just TFF. Enlighten my simpleton heart. Who or what is this "greater power than man" you both believe in?
So you can't demonstrate where I've made such an assertion, and have no idea what I really believe on the subject. Nice attempt at "straw-manning".
You are the one who believes in some god. Define your god and lets here your evidence.
Please enlighten me on your beliefs. I admit that I don't spend the time on this forum that a lot of you do and I have missed where you have posted your beliefs in a "greater force that man". If you would be so kind as to repost your thoughts on the subject again, it might provide the scratch to the itch that many such as myself and possibly other can't seem to quite reach. That's not really too much to ask is it?
Chucky,
Just because no theist to date's been able to provide sufficient evidence to their god claims, this in no way translates to "there's no greater power than man". That's an absurd logical fallacy know as a "false dichotomy". If someone wished to claim "there is no greater power than man in the Universe", that's it's own separate claim that must rise or fall on it's own body of evidence.
Let me ask you this. Are you so arrogant and filled with hubris to claim that if your god does not exist, that automatically means "Man is the greatest force is the Universe"? Really? That requires a level a hubris that I just don't have. Do other interstellar civilizations exist? They sure could. Are there any with "greater power" than ours? I don't know.
There are many things in the Universe beyond our control. Here's a simple example:
A single gamma ray burst too close to the earth and we are DONE, and there's nothing all of humanity could do about it.
Antelopy, Forgive me for being late to the table in realizing that this thread had taken the jump from Possible Creator and Benevolent Protector of Mankind to little green men. Reminds me a little of the good old Gus days. Actually, I too believe that what ever transpired on this small rock called Earth could of very well happened on one of the other billions of planets in the universe. And if it did, what proof have you they are greater than Humankind at this point. Could they still be at the fungus or moss state that Humans evolved from according to Evolution? Are you too hubris in your opinions ( I had to Google that after you posted it) that you feel others should allow you and I to possibly believe in Martians without any proof what so ever they actually exists, except childhood lore and Hollywood movies, yet still deny jaguartx or antlers their believes in something with just as much physical evidence to support it's existence as our little green men have.
. Enlighten my simpleton heart. Who or what is this "greater power than man" you both believe in?
Some people remain open minded as to whether such does/does not exist., or what it precisely may be... You may think there is deadline to start firmly believing in a God and type/form of God, but others don't..
Secondly, you have now asked a question without addressing my previous quedtions. #1 Where have I ever stated that No Form [of what you chose to call God ] exists?
#2 Who says any such God is actually like the Judeo Christian primitive narrative one?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
. Enlighten my simpleton heart. Who or what is this "greater power than man" you both believe in?
Some people remain open minded as to whether such does/does not exist., or what it precisely may be... You may think there is deadline to start firmly believing in a God, but others don't..
Secondly, you have now asked a question without addressing my previous quedtions.
> Where have I ever stated that No Form [of what you chose to call God ] exists?
> Who says any such God is actually like the Judeo Christian primitive narrative one?
Forgive me my grievances STARMAN, as stated earlier, I don't spend a great deal of time on this board as compared to other Intellectual Scholars such as yourself. I just happen to be home today and am killing a little time. I'm sure I have missed what you are eluding to and only ask that you repost your beliefs instead of continuously talking around them. Please enlighten me on the Greater Presence of the Universe as STARMAN sees it. Where did I state I "think there is deadline to start firmly believing in a God, but others don't.." Did I say " Who says any such God is actually like the Judeo Christian primitive narrative one"? I think not. And please try to use little words that a Hillbilly from KY can understand without me right clicking and Googling constantly. You and Antelope sniper are wearing my uneducated a$$ out looking these words up. Google couldn't even tell me what "quedtions" means.
What a clown show.......only fools think they understand. Turns out they don't know what they don't know. Keep going you hard charging fools, it's very entertaining.
Proverbs 26 11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly. 12 Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them.
1 Corinthians 8:2 (NLT) Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much.
1 Corinthians 2:11, NIV: "For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Isaiah 55:8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11:33-34 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
I don't pretend to know the existence of a "God" or what precisely such would be, though you have labeled it... "Greater Presence of the Universe" nor do I pretend to know such does not exist.
My posts revolve around what christians assert to be the one and only truth on the matter, even though they argue and squabble amongst themselves like primitive middle eastener Christians did before the time of Constantine... LoL.
Re: "Greater Presence of the Universe"
Is such presence actually within the universe or outside of it?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
What a clown show.......only fools think they understand. Turns out they don't know what they don't know. Keep going you hard charging fools, it's very entertaining.
Proverbs 26 11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly. 12 Do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for them.
1 Corinthians 8:2 (NLT) Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much.
1 Corinthians 2:11, NIV: "For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Isaiah 55:8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11:33-34 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor?
Are you seriously going to go by Scripture instead of how a person feels about the topic?
I don't pretend to know the existence of a "God" or what precisely such would be, though you have labeled it... "Greater Presence of the Universe" nor do I pretend to know such does not exist.
My posts revolve around what christians assert to be the one and only truth on the matter, even though they argue and squabble amongst themselves like primitive middle eastener Christians did before the time of Constatine... LoL.
Re: "Greater Presence of the Universe"
Is such presence actually within the universe or outside of it?
The answer to that is far above my Paygrade if you are asking me. Again, I am not asking what your posts revolve around. I am asking specifically what your own personal beliefs are regarding the 22 page topic at hand which you have already posted 16 times in without really stating anything.
I am more inclined to this than any religion that requires tithing to be a member.
Animism (from Latin anima, "breath, spirit, life")[1][2] is the belief that objects, places and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.[3][4][5][6] Potentially, animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, weather systems, human handiwork and perhaps even words—as animated and alive. Animism is used in the anthropology of religion as a term for the belief system of many indigenous peoples,[7] especially in contrast to the relatively more recent development of organised religions.[8]
Although each culture has its own different mythologies and rituals, "animism" is said to describe the most common, foundational thread of indigenous peoples' "spiritual" or "supernatural" perspectives. The animistic perspective is so widely held and inherent to most indigenous peoples that they often do not even have a word in their languages that corresponds to "animism" (or even "religion");[9] the term is an anthropological construct.
Largely due to such ethnolinguistic and cultural discrepancies, opinion has differed on whether animism refers to an ancestral mode of experience common to indigenous peoples around the world, or to a full-fledged religion in its own right. The currently accepted definition of animism was only developed in the late 19th century (1871) by Sir Edward Tylor, who created it as "one of anthropology's earliest concepts, if not the first".[10][11]
Animism encompasses the beliefs that all material phenomena have agency, that there exists no hard and fast distinction between the spiritual and physical (or material) world and that soul or spirit or sentience exists not only in humans, but also in other animals, plants, rocks, geographic features such as mountains or rivers or other entities of the natural environment: water sprites, vegetation deities, tree sprites, ... . Animism may further attribute a life force to abstract concepts such as words, true names or metaphors in mythology. Some members of the non-tribal world also consider themselves animists (such as author Daniel Quinn, sculptor Lawson Oyekan and many contemporary Pagans).[12]
You notice the evolutionary premise of the definition? It assumes ancient man was primitive. I suggest to you ancient man was ten times as smart as modern man. After the Flood they started away from Babel they were forced to live in caves or anywhere else they felt save. Modern man is discovering ancient man, soon after the Flood, made things we have no idea how they were made.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
I am more inclined to this than any religion that requires tithing to be a member.
Animism (from Latin anima, "breath, spirit, life")[1][2] is the belief that objects, places and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.[3][4][5][6] Potentially, animism perceives all things—animals, plants, rocks, rivers, weather systems, human handiwork and perhaps even words—as animated and alive. Animism is used in the anthropology of religion as a term for the belief system of many indigenous peoples,[7] especially in contrast to the relatively more recent development of organised religions.[8]
Although each culture has its own different mythologies and rituals, "animism" is said to describe the most common, foundational thread of indigenous peoples' "spiritual" or "supernatural" perspectives. The animistic perspective is so widely held and inherent to most indigenous peoples that they often do not even have a word in their languages that corresponds to "animism" (or even "religion");[9] the term is an anthropological construct.
Largely due to such ethnolinguistic and cultural discrepancies, opinion has differed on whether animism refers to an ancestral mode of experience common to indigenous peoples around the world, or to a full-fledged religion in its own right. The currently accepted definition of animism was only developed in the late 19th century (1871) by Sir Edward Tylor, who created it as "one of anthropology's earliest concepts, if not the first".[10][11]
Animism encompasses the beliefs that all material phenomena have agency, that there exists no hard and fast distinction between the spiritual and physical (or material) world and that soul or spirit or sentience exists not only in humans, but also in other animals, plants, rocks, geographic features such as mountains or rivers or other entities of the natural environment: water sprites, vegetation deities, tree sprites, ... . Animism may further attribute a life force to abstract concepts such as words, true names or metaphors in mythology. Some members of the non-tribal world also consider themselves animists (such as author Daniel Quinn, sculptor Lawson Oyekan and many contemporary Pagans).[12]
You notice the evolutionary premise of the definition? It assumes ancient man was primitive. I suggest to you ancient man was ten times as smart as modern man. After the Flood they started away from Babel they were forced to live in caves or anywhere else they felt save. Modern man is discovering ancient man, soon after the Flood, made things we have no idea how they were made.
The flood that never happened?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
