.. how do you really know what "paradise" is? Maybe the lions and lambs lie together until such time they can be slaughtered.. .
I put 2 and 2 together and it's blindingly obvious!
Theres a Colosseum in paradise, the lambs are symbolic for christians chilling out with the lions till the games begin... but the Christians don't really die in the spectacle, due to immortality.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
I can know what paradise means and it's obvious if the lion and lamb lay together there are animals there.
I can put 2 and 2 together as evidently some here are unable to do.
Your guesses and questions, being no better than starman s relegates your posts to ignore.
Why don't you appease yourself and do the same with mine.
Since the bible can't be taken literally, how do you really know what "paradise" is? Maybe the lions and lambs lie together until such time they can be slaughtered for a big feast. Isn't paradise going to be worship 24/7, I mean shouldn't you be eternally thankful for making it to heaven and showing the gratitude? The time for beer and skittles will have long passed.
But what about Valkyries?
What if my paradise involves tasting wine from the lips of, and eating skittles from the belly of this one:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
antelope_sniper wrote “.......tasting wine from the lips of, and eating skittles from the belly of, this one:” Wherever THAT line is, I wanna get in it...!
Yes you nailed it, jX stopped taking his Lithium meds.
"Lithium compounds, also known as lithium salts, are primarily used as a psychiatric medication. It is primarily used to treat bipolar disorder and treat major depressive disorder that does not improve following the use of antidepressants."
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
. I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe,
Where have I ever stated that No Form [of what you chose to call God ] exists?
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by ChuckKY
I believe it is more about Starman and antelope sniper and others seeking validation from others that their believe in an absence of God justifies and validates their belief of no greater power than man in the universe,
Show me where I've asserted that there is not greater power than man in the universe.
That's just TFF. Enlighten my simpleton heart. Who or what is this "greater power than man" you both believe in?
So you can't demonstrate where I've made such an assertion, and have no idea what I really believe on the subject. Nice attempt at "straw-manning".
You are the one who believes in some god. Define your god and lets here your evidence.
Please enlighten me on your beliefs. I admit that I don't spend the time on this forum that a lot of you do and I have missed where you have posted your beliefs in a "greater force that man". If you would be so kind as to repost your thoughts on the subject again, it might provide the scratch to the itch that many such as myself and possibly other can't seem to quite reach. That's not really too much to ask is it?
Chucky,
Just because no theist to date's been able to provide sufficient evidence to their god claims, this in no way translates to "there's no greater power than man". That's an absurd logical fallacy know as a "false dichotomy". If someone wished to claim "there is no greater power than man in the Universe", that's it's own separate claim that must rise or fall on it's own body of evidence.
Let me ask you this. Are you so arrogant and filled with hubris to claim that if your god does not exist, that automatically means "Man is the greatest force is the Universe"? Really? That requires a level a hubris that I just don't have. Do other interstellar civilizations exist? They sure could. Are there any with "greater power" than ours? I don't know.
There are many things in the Universe beyond our control. Here's a simple example:
A single gamma ray burst too close to the earth and we are DONE, and there's nothing all of humanity could do about it.
Antelopy, Forgive me for being late to the table in realizing that this thread had taken the jump from Possible Creator and Benevolent Protector of Mankind to little green men. Reminds me a little of the good old Gus days. Actually, I too believe that what ever transpired on this small rock called Earth could of very well happened on one of the other billions of planets in the universe. And if it did, what proof have you they are greater than Humankind at this point. Could they still be at the fungus or moss state that Humans evolved from according to Evolution? Are you too hubris in your opinions ( I had to Google that after you posted it) that you feel others should allow you and I to possibly believe in Martians without any proof what so ever they actually exists, except childhood lore and Hollywood movies, yet still deny jaguartx or antlers their believes in something with just as much physical evidence to support it's existence as our little green men have.
Chuck,
Let me help you out a bit and see if I can help you understand a different perspective.
One of the things you asked for if "proof". Generally, in these discussion I see someone asking for "proof" as a red herring. If you haven't followed many of these discussion, you may not have noticed that I never ask for "proof". I will ask for evidence, or good evidence, or sufficient evidence. Often times we don't have "proof", but claims supported with insufficient evidence, or evidence that something is "likely" or "probably" etc. Besides, since there's no real way to get around the problem of hard solipsism (you are just a brain in a vat, and all your experiences occur only within you brain) it can be argued that there is never really "proof" for anything, so it's best we talk in term of evidence that we can evaluate.
As for the existence of life beyond our planet, I consider it likely. We know it happened at least once, it's able to adapt to a surprising range of environments, and, excluding helium which is inert, we are made up of the most common elements in the universe one for one, in order of abundance.
Considering there's around 200 billion starts in the Milky way, and 200 galaxies just in the visible universe, and some number of planets and moons around each of those stars, that's a lot of dice to roll continuously over the billions of years since what we call the Big Bang (which was neither big, nor a bang). So do I think life outside our solar system is likely, yes. But do I know, no, I don't, and I'm ok with that. If there is life outside our solar system, we can build models of what, under certain circumstances, it might be likely to be like, but again, that's not the same thing as knowing.
Could there be life outside the solar system that's at the level of moss or bacteria. Yep, sure could be, or it could be highly advanced, living on the surface of a Dysan Sphere, or the moss could be the Dysan sphere, and more then we could possibly imagine in between these possibilities. I don't know. We don't know, and considering what we currently understand regarding the universal limit of causality, we may never know.
There's much we don't know, and I'm ok with accepting there are limits to our current knowledge. IME that's a common thematic difference between non-believers, and the hard core fundamentalist. Many fundamentalist have such a need to know they would rather blindly accept a fairly tale them accept the level of uncertainly and now knowing that comes with living in a world with scientific discovery.
You ask about what people should be "allowed to believe". It's a common trick for believer to ask as if engaging in an intellectual debate is "not allowing them to have their beliefs". I hope you would agree, that's absurd. Nobody's forced to join this forum, or clink on this thread. Everyone participating in this debate is doing so of their own free will (to the extent that freewill actually does or does not exist). The only force I've ever used to change someone's beliefs is the force of my reason. If your beliefs cannot withstand scrutiny, perhaps you should change them, but they should be changed because they fail to meet their burden of proof, not at the point of a gun. Of course there are exceptions to that. If you faith calls for child sacrifice, everyone drinking grape Kool Aid, or Sarin gas on the subways, then yes, your ideas need to be changed or eliminated with the proper application of firepower.
The two words are completely interchangeable. They have virtually the same exact meaning. If you have asked for evidence, you have asked for proof. The very definition of proof is evidence. Your long winded explanation holds no water. To be honest, your post borders on ramblings. You need to learn to get to the point while you still have your reader's interest at hand, if you are indeed writing these post for the interest of others and not yourself.
Dictionary
proof /pro͞of/
1. evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.
Dictionary evidence /ˈevədəns/
noun the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
Curious, did we ever find all of those missing links (water to land, ape to human, reptile to bird, etc)?
Oh, my gosh, yes. Long ago. For you not to know this tells me you've been entirely incurious about the subject. Just watch the series I posted episode one of earlier in this thread. It will take you one afternoon to watch all of them. Each installment is less than ten minutes.
Here, I'll post it again:
This atheist activist clown ran for the Texas state senate a few years ago (unsuccessfully). He is so hung up on evolution that his name has now evolved to just Aron Ra.
It's not about the man himself but the case for evolution that's being presented. Ra presents a very good case for evolution, but it doesn't depend on him or what he says. The information he presents is readily available in textbooks, online, libraries, schools, universities.....
Closing your mind to logical debate is a safe tactic to adopt.
2 Peter 2:22, the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’” In His sermon, Jesus uses dogs and pigs as representative of those who would ridicule, reject, and blaspheme the gospel once it is presented to them. We are not to expose the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who have no other purpose than to trample it and return to their own evil ways. Repeatedly sharing the gospel with someone who continually scoffs and ridicules Christ is like casting pearls before swine. We can identify such people through discernment, which is given in some measure to all Christians (1 Corinthians 2:15–16).
We are responsible to share the good news; we are not responsible for people’s response to the good news. Pigs don’t appreciate pearls, and some people don’t appreciate what Christ has done for them. Our job is not to force conversions or cram the gospel down people’s throats; there’s no sense in preaching the value of pearls to swine. Jesus’ instruction to His apostles on how to handle rejection was to simply go elsewhere. There are other people who need to hear the gospel, and they are ready to hear it.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
And why would I answer my questions put to others ? 🤔..
You honestly don't know do you?
It's a concept called "Integrity"
I dont believe that me answering questions I put to other people is a show of integrity.
Question for You,
Do you have any christian beliefs that you believe to be true rather than Myth?
You don't want to answer that... So you would prefer I answer it on your behalf?
I was raised in a strict Roman Catholic Family. I went to a Catholic school and church every Sunday. As a kid, I believed what I was told to believe. As I got older, I didn't remember there being a Pope when Jesus walked the Earth. I began to doubt the policy (politics) of the church as "gospel" and started to gravitate to a sense of treating others as I would want to be treated and listening to that little voice in the back of my mind as my path of guidance to true parity with myself and others. I harbor no ill content to those who feel they need to adhere to a more traditional faith and strict church doctrine, in fact I admire them for their ability to adhere to such a structured way of faith in their lives. I tend to more closely associate my religious beliefs the same way Renegade50 so eloquently stated earlier in this post. Sometimes I wonder how a Loving God would allow a child to be strictin in some life changing illness and at other times I marvel at the sight of a mother's loving embrace of her child and know this had to be more than mere pond scum that got us here. I question these things nearly on a daily pattern. I would not expect a fool such as yourself to answer these questions for me. I would only ask you to answer the same question now that I am asking of you that you just asked of me and I answered.
Closing your mind to logical debate is a safe tactic to adopt.
2 Peter 2:22, the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’” In His sermon, Jesus uses dogs and pigs as representative of those who would ridicule, reject, and blaspheme the gospel once it is presented to them. We are not to expose the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who have no other purpose than to trample it and return to their own evil ways. Repeatedly sharing the gospel with someone who continually scoffs and ridicules Christ is like casting pearls before swine. We can identify such people through discernment, which is given in some measure to all Christians (1 Corinthians 2:15–16).
We are responsible to share the good news; we are not responsible for people’s response to the good news. Pigs don’t appreciate pearls, and some people don’t appreciate what Christ has done for them. Our job is not to force conversions or cram the gospel down people’s throats; there’s no sense in preaching the value of pearls to swine. Jesus’ instruction to His apostles on how to handle rejection was to simply go elsewhere. There are other people who need to hear the gospel, and they are ready to hear it.
You're quoting from fictional material, but I appreciate your intended insults. Christians lash out with derogatory statements, threats and condescending statements, I'm not sure why but like I said earlier anger is more productive than despair. If you feel good about ignoring facts and logic and comparing your fellow man to swine, power to you.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
As for the existence of life beyond our planet, I consider it likely. We know it happened at least once, it's able to adapt to a surprising range of environments, and, excluding helium which is inert, we are made up of the most common elements in the universe one for one, in order of abundance.
Considering there's around 200 billion starts in the Milky way, and 200 galaxies just in the visible universe, and some number of planets and moons around each of those stars, that's a lot of dice to roll continuously over the billions of years since what we call the Big Bang (which was neither big, nor a bang). So do I think life outside our solar system is likely, yes. But do I know, no, I don't, and I'm ok with that. If there is life outside our solar system, we can build models of what, under certain circumstances, it might be likely to be like, but again, that's not the same thing as knowing.
Could there be life outside the solar system that's at the level of moss or bacteria. Yep, sure could be, or it could be highly advanced, living on the surface of a Dysan Sphere, or the moss could be the Dysan sphere, and more then we could possibly imagine in between these possibilities. I don't know. We don't know, and considering what we currently understand regarding the universal limit of causality, we may never know.
There's much we don't know, and I'm ok with accepting there are limits to our current knowledge. IME that's a common thematic difference between non-believers, and the hard core fundamentalist. Many fundamentalist have such a need to know they would rather blindly accept a fairly tale them accept the level of uncertainly and now knowing that comes with living in a world with scientific discovery.
Very well stated. And very close to my own conclusions. In the billions of years since the big bang, billions of life filled planets could have come and gone, and billions more will very likely come and go after humans have gone extinct. And any number of those planets might have or maybe will generate "intelligent life". Some of that intelligent life might gain scientific knowledge enough that we could well be convinced they are gods, just as the ancient cave peoples of ten thousand years ago would believe we are gods due to our technological tricks.
I know not what greater forces than man might exist in the Universe. But due the insurmountable reaches of space and TIME in our Universe, I firmly believe we shall never meet them.
Beyond what I believe, I know for a fact! There is no scribe in the sky recording MY every act and thought. There is nothing nor anyone who cares for what happens when my EEG goes flat. I know there is absolutely no existence after brain activity stops. Our "soul" is the sum of electrical impulses, chemistry, genetics, and learning. From dust we arise, and surely to dust shall we return.
And I am comfortable with this knowledge. I am experiencing heaven right here and now. 40 hour weeks, all the food I can eat, a warm dry bed, a wonderful wife to share my bed, a safe full of guns, a yard full of kids and grandkids, a nice boat in the yard, full of fishing poles and tackle, mountains nearby with deer and elk, lakes nearby full of fish. The assurance of a well funded retirement just around the corner.
What more could a man dream of?
I need no promise of Paradise, nor threat of Hell to force morality upon me. I know right from wrong. I know what actions would bring harm and unhappiness to my loved ones or the community.
If promises and threats is what it takes to keep you on the "Straight and Narrow". So be it. You have my blessing. Just don't expect that every man has the same needs as you, and I will not expect that you should live without your mythology.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
So you asked the question, and you were not really interested in the answer.
Good to know.
You probably won't listen but for those who care to, there's a more nuanced difference between proof and evidence.
"Proof", is sufficient evidence or a sufficient argument to establish the truth of a proposition
Where evidence is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. Evidence can be of different qualities, and depending on the nature you of the question you may have different burdens of proof. Poor evidence may not meet a high burden of proof, so as is often the case with English, words with similar usages are often not really the same.
Of course the overall question in this thread revolves around the existence of a god(s), which is an extraordinary claim, so, in order to meet it's burden of proof the claimant would need to provide extraordinary evidence. I have yet to see anyone present good evidence, let a lone extraordinary evidence for any theistic claims.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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