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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029133 07/07/20
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lightman Offline
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I don't see how its the Countys fault?


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: hatari] #15029134 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by 260Remguy

What to you guys think?



As soon as there is proof that alcohol is involved, the case is over.
(No pun intended)


The parents of the driver may well have a big legal problem put on their doorstep from the parents of the other deceased teenagers.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029135 07/07/20
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I don't think the parents of the dead teens are trying to leverage the deaths for their financial gain.

The parents are looking to hold someone other than their little girl responsible. Sad but not unusual.


Paul

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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029147 07/07/20
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Agree that the county is not responsible.

But, the parents of the other kids who were killed should be suing the parents of the driver.

Had it happen with a colleague. Her 17 yr old daughter driving and injured, younger sister seriously injured, her best friend killed. No alcohol involved. Families were best friends, too. Still got sued. Insurance company settled.

Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029148 07/07/20
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It's all just sad.

And who would expect the girls to have good judgment when it seems some of their parents don't have good judgment? "It's the road's fault my underage daughter got legally intoxicated, drove 35mph over the speed limit with a car full of distracting, screaming teen girls, likely with the music cranked up and everyone thinking this is the best time ever....until the evil road caused my poor daughter to lose control of the car, wreck, and kill three of her friends, along with herself!"

NO, reality and consequences to poor decisions just assert themselves eventually. There is no escape from this.

It's tragic, but it's actually YOUR fault as her parents. That's typically how the law sees it. If my daughter was a passenger in the car, I'd think about suing the parents of the driver.


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029163 07/07/20
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[quote]
Originally Posted by 260Remguy

It seems to me that this litigation is an attempt by the parents of the dead teens to leverage the deaths for their financial gain.

What to you guys think?


That says it all, right there.

L.W.


"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: HuntnShoot] #15029166 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
It's all just sad.

And who would expect the girls to have good judgment when it seems some of their parents don't have good judgment? "It's the road's fault my underage daughter got legally intoxicated, drove 35mph over the speed limit with a car full of distracting, screaming teen girls, likely with the music cranked up and everyone thinking this is the best time ever....until the evil road caused my poor daughter to lose control of the car, wreck, and kill three of her friends, along with herself!"

NO, reality and consequences to poor decisions just assert themselves eventually. There is no escape from this.

It's tragic, but it's actually YOUR fault as her parents. That's typically how the law sees it. If my daughter was a passenger in the car, I'd think about suing the parents of the driver.


I believe that you mean "illegally".


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: SKane] #15029190 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
In June of 2019 4 teenage girls, ages 15 and 16, were killed in a car accident.

Now the parents have filed tort litigation against the County, claiming that the road is poorly designed where the accident occurred.

There were 5 girls in the car when the accident occurred, 4 died and 1 survived. According to published news reports, 4 of the 5 girls had been drinking, including the driver, who was reported to have had a 0.09 BAC, and the accident investigator reported that the car was traveling approximately 90 MPH in a 55 MPH zone when it hit a guard rail, left the road, landed in a creek bed, and burst into flames.

It seems to me that the primary cause of this tragic accident was the underage consumption of alcohol by the driver, such that she was legally drunk, and still would have been if she had been 5 years older and of legal drinking age. If you add the high rate of speed, the driver's limited experience behind the wheel, and her alcohol consumption together the cause of the accident seems obvious.

I've driven across the road where the accident occurred dozens, maybe hundreds, of times and the shallow "S" curve at the point of the accident didn't even register as being anything worthy of note when traveling around 55 MPH.

It seems to me that this litigation is an attempt by the parents of the dead teens to leverage the deaths for their financial gain.

What to you guys think?




I feel for the parents here.
But if it were someone else's children and they were presented with the same facts (BAC and high rate of speed), I can't help but think they'd see things very differently. And it's no wonder a large majority of our youth are convinced they can do no wrong when this is the sort of example that's being set for them.







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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029215 07/07/20
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What will Mommy and Daddy say when they discover that a bottle has been taken from their own cabinet? Is it still the county's fault?


A good sermon doesn't tell the difference between right and wrong. It tells the difference between right and almost right.
Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029217 07/07/20
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Likely an ambulance chasing lawyer looking for his 40% cut.


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 12344mag] #15029220 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by 12344mag
I don't think the parents of the dead teens are trying to leverage the deaths for their financial gain.

The parents are looking to hold someone other than their little girl responsible. Sad but not unusual.


That’s not the way I read the claim,

The claim reads, "As a result of the incident, all of the parents of these four minors — Bradley D. Barth, Army Barth, Wendy Pfeifer, Justin Pfeifer, Tonja Minardi, John Minardi and Julie Odermatt — have suffered injuries, will continue to suffer injuries and have incurred other damages and losses.

The document argues that the area of Platteview Road where the crash occurred and the guardrail the vehicle struck were both "improper," because:

It was defective and improperly and negligently designed, engineered, constructed or maintained.
It failed to warn drivers of its dangers.
It failed to prevent/mitigate crashes on Platteview Road
It created a dangerous condition and did not comply with practices, rules and standards
"Sarpy County's negligent, reckless, and/or willful actions and/or omissions were a cause of the incident," the document states.

Each family is seeking wrongful-death damages related to emotional distress, loss of financial support, loss of comfort, companionship, services, support, earnings, love, affection and more.



Swifty
Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: Dryfly24] #15029228 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Originally Posted by windridge
Who supplied the alcohol? Who supplied the car to a young inexperienced driver?


What’s your point? Doesn’t make it any less sad, and still doesn’t put the responsibility on the state, which is what the suit alleges.


My point is it DOESN'T put responsibility on the State, and yes, it is sad. Why would you think I didn't think it was?

It sounds a lot like bad parenting. That in itself is always sad.

Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029264 07/07/20
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Judge to engineer testifying on behalf of the county "Do any federal, state or municipal road-building codes require that roads be built to be safely driven at twice the speed limit by a 16 year old, (il)legally drunk driver? No? Case dismissed! Costs to the county."

Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029282 07/07/20
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Rule of thumb in teaching if a kid gets hurt on a hiking trip etc....

The worst parents are the ones most likely to sue.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: Swifty52] #15029331 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by Swifty52
ok, here y’all go, exact location looking west. Teens were traveling east, smacked a guard rail and flipped into the creek bed. Parents looking for a financial out as there was probably a clause in the insurance policy about payout if driver was drinking due to Nebraska’s zero tolerance law for teen drivers.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


There is now an extensive memorial to the 4 dead girls just to the left of the picture on the edge of the creek.

Some guy who claimed to be a driving instructor wrote a letter to the Omaha World Herald comparing this accident to one that happened back in 1994 on a road that was popular among local teens because if you hit the apex of a hill fast enough you could go airborne. In the 1994 accident at the so called "State Street Jump", 3 young teens were killed, but the driver survived and was later charged and convicted of vehicular homicide. Similarities were that alcohol, speed, and poor judgement were involved, but the roads were very different. In the 1994 accident all 4 of the people in the car had been drinking, while in the 2019 accident 3 of the dead girls and the sole survivor had been drinking. One of the girls who was killed in 2019 hadn't been drinking, but being sober didn't keep her from getting into a car along with her impaired best friends.

If the car was traveling at 90 MPH when it hit the guard rail, that would be 64% over the posted speed limit. Driving 64% over the posted speed limit on a 75 MPH Interstate Highway would calculate to 123 MPH. Even on a rural Interstate Highway with gradual curves, an impaired drive with limited experience would be a danger to everyone around him/her if he/she was driving 123 MPH.

Or so it seems to me.

Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: Swifty52] #15029340 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by Swifty52
ok, here y’all go, exact location looking west. Teens were traveling east, smacked a guard rail and flipped into the creek bed. Parents looking for a financial out as there was probably a clause in the insurance policy about payout if driver was drinking due to Nebraska’s zero tolerance law for teen drivers.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


I wasn’t a guardrail inspector, but looks to me like that guardrail was probably up to standards. I’d just bet they were already in a WOS coming out of that curve and the guardrail was secondary issue when struck. And there wasn’t anyway it was gonna keep em out of the ditch.

But I did do speed zone surveys for 12 years. And if thats just a section of typical rural roadway, I see no real reason why it shouldn’t be a 55 MPH zone as that intermediate SL sign indicates. I’d even go as far to bet that the 85th percentile speed (if it was surveyed) is probably around 62-64 MPH!


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: windridge] #15029343 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Originally Posted by windridge
Who supplied the alcohol? Who supplied the car to a young inexperienced driver?


What’s your point? Doesn’t make it any less sad, and still doesn’t put the responsibility on the state, which is what the suit alleges.


My point is it DOESN'T put responsibility on the State, and yes, it is sad. Why would you think I didn't think it was?

It sounds a lot like bad parenting. That in itself is always sad.


Because I thought you were responding to defend the post I had responded to. I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning.

Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: Dryfly24] #15029501 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Originally Posted by windridge
Originally Posted by Dryfly24
Originally Posted by windridge
Who supplied the alcohol? Who supplied the car to a young inexperienced driver?


What’s your point? Doesn’t make it any less sad, and still doesn’t put the responsibility on the state, which is what the suit alleges.


My point is it DOESN'T put responsibility on the State, and yes, it is sad. Why would you think I didn't think it was?

It sounds a lot like bad parenting. That in itself is always sad.


Because I thought you were responding to defend the post I had responded to. I apologize if I misunderstood your meaning.


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: 260Remguy] #15029528 07/07/20
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I was deposed once on a case involving a fatality. I knew they were grabbing at straws when the deposed me as I was the lowest guy on the totem pole. The plaintiffs lawyer asked me if I would be surprised if the traveling public stopped at the stop bar at an intersection. I politely told him that there was absolutely nothing the traveling public could do that would surprise me. He did not like that answer. Kinda pissed him off.


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Re: 4 dead teens, who is at fault? [Re: simonkenton7] #15029545 07/07/20
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Originally Posted by simonkenton7
MADD
Mothers Against Drunk Driving

Mostly made up of 45 year old hags, who gave their little dolly [1] a new Camaro for her 16th birthday.
And six months later, the girl was out at midnight [2], drunk [3] , and wrapped the car around an oak tree and was killed.

Mom feels guilty and now she is on a campaign to try to assuage her guilt. The old hag is nuts, she is crazy, and she will remain crazy for the rest of her life.

[1] Sixteen year old kids are not mature enough to handle a hot rod car
[2] Sixteen year old kids should not be out at midnight. Nothing good ever happens after 11 pm
[3] There is a reason why it is illegal for tenth graders to drink



aint that the truth.


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