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Lots of folks in Church are there for appearances only, or because it's a family tradition. I think you are misinterpreting or overstating something I've said in the past.
You simply said folks who go to church are displaying faith.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Sage
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Lots of folks in Church are there for appearances only, or because it's a family tradition. I think you are misinterpreting or overstating something I've said in the past.
You simply said folks who go to church are displaying faith. That's rather vague. You'll need the exact quote in context. We've had all sorts of discussions over the years.
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"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2
I see no mention of an eternal firey torture for mere mortal transgressors. I know you don't see it. If someone rose from the dead and explained it to you, you wouldn't see it either. Dream, imagine, believe, etc, all you want, it dont change the fact no firey eternal hell is mentioned in the slightest. You are sharing your delusions , nothing more.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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50 pages,
the auctioneer in me is saying
"60, do I hear 60?"
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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50 pages,
the auctioneer in me is saying
"60, do I hear 60?" I show 119 pages.
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Campfire Tracker
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Pretend? The evidence is there for anyone to see. The missing link(s) have been found? There are many transitional fossils. Anyone can check. Stephen J. Gould called the lack of transitional in the fossil record "the trade secret of paleontology".  Because evolution always seemed to be happening where we couldn't see any evidence of it (as evidenced by the lack of transitionals) Gould and Niles Eldredge were forced to postulate "punctuated equilibrium" to try to account for the decidedly "undarwinian" fossil record. According to Darwin (if his theory were true) transitional should dominate the fossil record and Darwin wondered aloud where were the missing transitional fossils? Of course, in Darwin's time the fossil strata hadn't been explored much, but it has now been explored with much greater thoroughness and the transitional are still lacking. There are a few candidates as possible transitional but of those we can't even be sure they are transitional without DNA evidence. On the whole, the fossil record refutes and does not confirm Darwin.
Last edited by Tarquin; 07/07/20.
Tarquin
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Campfire Ranger
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50 pages, the auctioneer in me is saying "60, do I hear 60?" lol This thread’s as long as it is, and it’s been going on for at least 3 weeks. The ‘Fuuck you drama queens’ thread is quite long already, and it’s been going on for 2 days. lol some more
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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50 pages,
the auctioneer in me is saying
"60, do I hear 60?" I show 119 pages. Your settings are WRONG. Everyone's settings are WRONG............ unless they are the same as mine. Just like in life.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Campfire Sage
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Dream, imagine, believe, etc, all you want,
it dont change the fact no firey eternal hell is
mentioned in the slightest.
You are sharing your delusions , nothing more.
Where are you getting that there needs to be fire? Fire has always been used to symbolize the suffering that awaits people in hell, but I'm not sure there's any definite statement about it being fiery in either the New or Old Testaments. Might be, but I don't recall it. I know Paul says some will be saved as if through fire, but that's about salvation, not damnation.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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50 pages, the auctioneer in me is saying "60, do I hear 60?" lol This thread’s as long as it is, and it’s been going on for at least 3 weeks. The ‘Fuuck you drama queens’ thread is quite long already, and it’s been going on for 2 days. lol some more I was just going over there to call for more replies. Maybe that one can catch up.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Where are you getting that there needs to be fire?
I first said christians fear/ believe in a firey eternal hell and you quoted Daniel. Christians on the CF and outside of such believe in such a flame filled place of eternal punishment.... so that's where I'm getting it from. If they are all wrong then they must be outside your "special' christian fold.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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I don’t believe that (3) happened, but I don't believe that anyone can prove that (3) didn't happen. Not easy to prove at all. Many fossils of anatomically modern humans that are 200,000 years old say otherwise. The Biblical creation story has the earth and man both being created just days apart. A 4.5 billion year old earth says otherwise as well. I believe that 6000 years ago a "day" was about the same 24 hours that it is now. Not very clear to me how you "prove" that to those who believe otherwise.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Sage
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Where are you getting that there needs to be fire?
I first said christians fear/ believe in a firey eternal hell and you quoted Daniel. Christians on the CF and outside of such believe in such a flame filled place of eternal punishment.... so that's where I'm getting it from. If they are all wrong then they must be outside your "special' christian fold. The concept of fire is used to symbolize suffering.
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Campfire Ranger
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This is (3)... (3) “God created human beings pretty much in their current form in the last 6,000 years or so.” You said... ...I don't believe that anyone can prove that (3) didn't happen. Not easy to prove at all. Many fossils of anatomically modern humans that are 200,000 years old say otherwise. The Biblical creation story has the earth and man both being created just days apart. A 4.5 billion year old earth says otherwise as well. It’s easily proven that (3) didn’t happen.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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And that's the crux of the argument - believers rely on faith but deny the proof of the non-believers.
I'm a believer. Which scientific proofs do I deny? Okay, it was a general comment. So, you don't deny proof. How do you handle it then? - ignore it or accept it?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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The concept of fire is used to symbolize suffering.
Christians take it as being tormented for eternity. What eternal tormentation (or suffering) is there if the book says God will inflict the punishment of death [destroy the wicked].. ? What can you suffer after death? For a God to torment the wicked for eternity doesn't that require keeping them alive?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire Ranger
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The concept of fire is used to symbolize suffering.
Christians take it as being tormented for eternity. What eternal tormentation (or suffering) is there if the book says God will inflict the punishment of death [destroy the wicked].. ? What can you suffer after death? It ain't hard to find Christians that "fire" means fire.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Campfire Sage
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And that's the crux of the argument - believers rely on faith but deny the proof of the non-believers.
I'm a believer. Which scientific proofs do I deny? Okay, it was a general comment. So, you don't deny proof. How do you handle it then? - ignore it or accept it? I think I've been clear on this. No point in repeating everything I've already said in this thread.
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Campfire Tracker
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But the time frame of six literal days of creation is given and described. If Adam/humankind evolved just as the evidence tells us, there is no need to invoke special creation or intelligent design...which is not supported by the evidence, fossil record, multiple extinction events, etc. The time frame is allegorical. God can command X,Y, and Z, and see that it is good, then move on to command A,B, and C, both billions of years before any of it actually takes place. Time duration and sequence is a thing for us, not for God. He doesn't live within the confines of such concepts. It wasn't believed to be allegory in the past, some still don't. It was believed to be the inspired word of God describing how the world came to be, how it was created in literally six days, why the world has suffering/ the fall and the need for redemption, etc. Which doesn't work with allegory. Now that it's been shown that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and life has evolved from a common ancestor, microbes for 3 billion years, multiple extinction events, and nearly us in the last ice age, it is more convenient to call it allegory.
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.. Fire has always been used to symbolize the suffering that awaits people in hell, . The O..T. makes no mention of suffering in a hell or hades (sheol).. If anything it specifically describes such place where the dead Sleep and know of nothing. so when did this hell suffering place that you believe in, come into actual existence?
PS The New Testament is a higher level of revelation than was the Old Testament. What was vague in the Old is made clear in the New.
The O.T. Is not vague on what hell/hades/sheol constitutes, it's clear and concise. and it dont match your beliefs.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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