I own four 10's. A first run S&W M610, a Ruger Buckeye 10 / 38 WCF, a Ruger Match Champion GP100 and a Glock 40. The old Smith is my favorite. No issues with any of them but the Smith just, well, is a Smith...
I use a G20, S&W 610, and a S&W 310. I like them all for what they are.
Packing, the G20 or 310 isn't much difference but the G20 holds 10 more with one in the chamber. If I'm sweating, it's raining, rough, dirty, the G20.
For an N-frame, the 310 in a Milt Sparks PMK is about as good as it gets for weight, size, and speed of reloads with a concealed carry revolver.
For targets the 6.5" 610 no doubt.....40's or 10's it's fun, easy to shoot, and very accurate.
If I was only going to have one for everything it would be the G20 along with a 40 S&W conversion barrel. The G20 is like an arranged marriage to a "good" woman....cooks, cleans, warm in bed, does everything you need but not much to look at or get you excited.....
Just started shooting 10s a few years ago...have had several...no issues but:
Glock 40/4...great gun. Soft shooting. Very accurate. Also have a .357 SIG barrel for it that is like a laser...
RIA Combat Commander size... For $500 it is just as accurate as guns costing twice as much. Excellent sights...hate the ambi-safety as it is in the way of my knuckle on the right hand.. Has been changed to a standard ambi-Colt style.
PARA-USA Elite LS Hunter...has been 100% reliable and very accurate. Was just shooting it last week with 165 Gold Dots and 200 grain hard cast..eats everything.
Kimber Stainless Target II...accurate and easy to shoot. Have several different barrels and has run 100%.
Ruger GP-100 MC...excellent shooter but does kick quite a bit with 200s... Love the sights. Decent DA pull.
Glock 20/3....beat the crap out of me...went down the road...
Glock 29/3...same as above but worse....it is also gone.
Depending on what you are going to use it for, me personally if I thinned things down it would probably be the Kimber as it can be shot as accurately as the rest and just works. That or a Dan Wesson Bruin 6" that has night sights...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
I've been thinking of getting into the centimeter game for a while now, but hard to justify since I own a nice 686 and live in TN where bears aren't a threat.
Will be watching to see the consensus of the fire. Glock 40 has my eye.
I just picked up a RIA Ultra FS last week. I'm not an experienced pistol shooter, but it goes bang every time I pull the trigger and seems very accurate.
I just picked up a RIA Ultra FS last week. I'm not an experienced pistol shooter, but it goes bang every time I pull the trigger and seems very accurate.
I've got the exact same gun and it's a lot of gun for the money. I also own a Delta Goldcup, the most accurate semi-auto that I have. Glock G20, living in Alaska it's the all around pistol for 2 legged or 4. The G20 is lightweight, has a high-cap, reliable, and weather proof.
What are you running and how's it shoot? Any issues?
Glock 20 for me. All you need is an aftermarket conversion barrel (about $100.00) to shoot .40 S&W through it, which adds some inexpensive versatility to it. I bought the Lone Wolf conversion barrel for mine. Works perfectly. You use the standard 10mm mags with the .40 S&W conversion barrel. No switching out of extractor, or any part other than the barrel.
I have four 10mm's. Two are EAA Witnesses - one stainless, one blued. The other two are 1911's, one is a RIA, the other a Kimber. I like all of these. I the past I had a Glock G20. First mag of ammo through it a case ruptured (lack of chamber support). Last Glock for me!
I have four 10mm's. Two are EAA Witnesses - one stainless, one blued. The other two are 1911's, one is a RIA, the other a Kimber. I like all of these. I the past I had a Glock G20. First mag of ammo through it a case ruptured (lack of chamber support). Last Glock for me!
What are you running and how's it shoot? Any issues?
Glock 20 for me. All you need is an aftermarket conversion barrel (about $100.00) to shoot .40 S&W through it, which adds some inexpensive versatility to it. I bought the Lone Wolf conversion barrel for mine. Works perfectly. You use the standard 10mm mags with the .40 S&W conversion barrel. No switching out of extractor, or any part other than the barrel.
I've had an original Delta Elite for something over 30 years, I seem to be pretty fond of it.
I think I could like an XD too.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
I have had Glock 20s and 29s, Colta Delta Elite, 1911s by Sig, Rock Island, Kimber, Springfield, Dan Wesson, Fusion, EAA Witness, S&W 610s of several barrel lengths, a David Clements Ruger GP-100 and probably some I have left out. The only ones I had issues with were the RIA and the Kimber. Everything else ran with everything I tried in them
I have a Glock 21 Gen 4 ,45 ACP and a Storm Lake 10 MM Barrel 6 inch.barrel for it. Has a snappy recoil with 10mmUnderwood 180 grain Hollow Points. Shoots fine no malfunctions even with Kriss High cap Magazines.
Nice Package with versality as I can shoot 45 acp,10mm or 40S&W and 45 super if I want to BUT feels like I am holding a 2x4 compared to my Gen 3 Glock 26.
Other than the Physical Size of the pistol the setup has a lot going for it.
I have a Glock 21 Gen 4 ,45 ACP and a Storm Lake 10 MM Barrel 6 inch.barrel for it. Has a snappy recoil with 10mmUnderwood 180 grain Hollow Points. Shoots fine no malfunctions even with Kriss High cap Magazines.
Nice Package with versality as I can shoot 45 acp,10mm or 40S&W and 45 super if I want to BUT feels like I am holding a 2x4 compared to my Gen 3 Glock 26.
Other than the Physical Size of the pistol the setup has a lot going for it.
With the prices of gen 3 SF police trade ins around $400, this is a hell of a setup for the coin.
I currently have a G20, gen 4. I traded an RIA Ultra FS for the Glock. I liked the RIA and it was accurate. The G20 doesnt seem to recoil any more but holds twice as many. It took a while to get used to the Glock trigger but I've grown used to it and shoot it fairly well. I've never had a bobble with the G20.
The barrel.link broke on my RIA after about 15 rounds of Underwood 220 hard cast. RIA fixed it no charge but made me doubt the reliability after that.
What are you running and how's it shoot? Any issues?
Glock 20 for me. All you need is an aftermarket conversion barrel (about $100.00) to shoot .40 S&W through it, which adds some inexpensive versatility to it. I bought the Lone Wolf conversion barrel for mine. Works perfectly. You use the standard 10mm mags with the .40 S&W conversion barrel. No switching out of extractor, or any part other than the barrel.
I know a guy with a Colt Double Eagle .45 and that other wonder pistol of Colt's the All American 2000 9mm. I asked him if he ever shot them and he said "No, I just don't want to be disappointed in them."
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Glock 20 works as it should....pull the trigger and it goes bang.
Not exactly "out of the box", but that's where it started...
To me, the trigger is the weak point with the Glock. This Glock 40 has a trigger job by a Glock trained armorer. I tried an aftermarket trigger, sent it back. It wasn't as good as this one.
7" KKM drop in barrel, RMR with Suppressor Trijicons to co-witness the RMR...
Frame work by Sinner's Mass in San Antonio, TX. I didn't like the factory finger grooves, like this better.. EdM put me onto them; they had done similar work for him.
Not the Double Eagle; I've shot the Colt Delta 10mm. To me it kicked more than the Glock, although I do like a 1911 trigger more than a Glock trigger.
The plastic Glock grip frame with wider grip plus the weight, seems to make the Glock 40 a rather pleasant gun to shoot. On that note, I like it better than the Delta.
I would think the Double Eagle would handle similar to the Delta, minus the 1911 trigger.
Not the Double Eagle; I've shot the Colt Delta 10mm. To me it kicked more than the Glock, although I do like a 1911 trigger more than a Glock trigger.
The plastic Glock grip frame with wider grip plus the weight, seems to make the Glock 40 a rather pleasant gun to shoot. On that note, I like it better than the Delta.
I would think the Double Eagle would handle similar to the Delta, minus the 1911 trigger.
DF
Its still a 1911 trigger, after the first pop. The weight in regards to the mousetrap makes it equal to the LS Para posted for recoil. Its second hand, in regards to the idiot mark, but it handles the same 200 gr. 10mm loads easily. It could use some more chamber support. The Para has it.
Ruger 1911 here. Found it for the price of a Rock Island at the LGS. Shoots 180 XTPs to about 1250 very accurately, about as accurate as my series 70 .45 Gold Cup. I’m very happy with it, except for it’s tendency to throw brass like an AK.
Funny, I love the cartridge, but the only one I've got, or ever had, is the Glock 20 I got over 20 years ago. I was close to getting a Sig a few months ago, but didn't. Would really like a 1911. If a Les Baer weren't a couple of years wait, last I heard...
Anyway, the Glock shoots 180 grain XTP at 1300 over 2400 powder. I had to put in a heavier recoil spring than stock, also replaced the plastic recoil spring guide rod with a heavy one. I shoot new Starline brass for the XTP's, reload it once with 180 grain plated lead hp's and toss it. The Glock was my knocking around on quad, horse or tractor gun when on the farm. I've always been amazed at what I could hit out to 100 yards or so with it. At my former club, we had a berm at 70 yards on the pistol range and the Glock would break clay pigeons on there very consistently.
I've had a number of 10's. IMO the best was the first, the Smith and Wesson 1006. Kinda wish I still had one. I've had two Glock 20's. Just can't warm to them.
I've had a number of 10's. IMO the best was the first, the Smith and Wesson 1006. Kinda wish I still had one. I've had two Glock 20's. Just can't warm to them.
There's not much to warm to in a Glock. They are great tools, though.
glock 20, its as good a close range blaster as you can get. I like the sig but not for twice the price, now if I could wring all of the accuracy out of a sig that exists in the gun, then maybe yes, but for me and my common handgun skills at 7 yards the g20 is "worth the money" and it don't weight a ton. Plus it won't every let you down when you need it to fire.
The only 10 I've had is the XDM 4.5" model. It shoots fairly soft with 180gr/1250fps ammo and it carries easily enough. I like the sights and the trigger is fairly decent. I bought it for a hard-use outdoors and truck pistol and it gets nasty and beat up. No complaints yet.
I’ve owned 10mm autos since 1990 ….. I still have my 6 inch long slide Springfield Armory Omega and the Glock 20 G3 I’ve had since 2001 .
I owned a Colt Delta Elite made in 1990 and it was the only 10mm I sent on its way . Fixed sights , rattled quite a bit and just wasn’t up to Colts standard ( the standard I thought Colt was known for ) . Mind you , it ate everything that was put in the magazine , just seemed cheap and got battered .
I would stay with the linkless designs and fully supported barrels / chambers if you are going to be reloading or shooting spicy loads .
The only 10 I've had is the XDM 4.5" model. It shoots fairly soft with 180gr/1250fps ammo and it carries easily enough. I like the sights and the trigger is fairly decent. I bought it for a hard-use outdoors and truck pistol and it gets nasty and beat up. No complaints yet.
Smith who worked on my Glock 40 has one of these. The XDM trigger (he worked on it) is much better than the Glock (even after a trigger job).
I'll throw in a vote for the XDM10. I have the 5.25" barrel. Mine has been excellent, shoots very well, had much better sights and a much better trigger out of the box than the glock. I'm test driving the Powder River drop in trigger, and don't think I'll be able to go back.
It has been 100% reliable, fits nicely in my HPG kit bags or holster, and goes damn near everywhere outdoors with me. I have no doubt there are more accurate pistols out there, and a 1911 in 10MM would be fun. But for something I'm going to carry a lot and trust to save my life, I like the capacity and low maintenance that the plastic gets me.
Wow, tremendous feedback, greatly appreciated. One of my regrets, passing on a 610 full length underlug, 5" at the Houston show in the late 90s, the price was right, and it was nice.........never seen another for that price...the latest 4" look pretty nifty.
The Semi's- many choices, obviously some owners vary in their experiences, but some solid choices. Appreciate everyone who contributed and anyone else who wants to chime in. Thanks folks!
Another vote for the XDm. I have the 5.25” version and it has been 100% reliable with every flavor of reload or factory ammo I’ve fed it! Carry ammo while in bear country is 180XTP reloads at 1300fps. Snappy but very manageable and have confidence in this load for anything 2 or 4 legged! I keep 180 Gold Dots Loaded to 1200fps in the gun for home defense!
Elk Country
"I refuse to waste my common sense on those who have been educated beyond their intelligence"
All you need to know about Democrats is they call American citizens "Deplorables" and illegal immigrants "Dreamers"!
If I were starting from scratch, the 5.25" XDM would be where I looked first, it's got a lot going for it....but I'd compare it to the G40. This is with the main focus of trigger time and woods carry in a chest pack rig.
I owned a Colt Delta Elite made in 1990 and it was the only 10mm I sent on its way . Fixed sights , rattled quite a bit and just wasn’t up to Colts standard ( the standard I thought Colt was known for ) . Mind you , it ate everything that was put in the magazine , just seemed cheap and got battered .
Thanks bulkie.
I have not owned any 10mm YET....but the one I always wanted is the Colt D E. Maybe just for the looks ? In/about 1990 I saw & handled a few D E at the gun shows, just didn't pop on one.
I bought a nearly new 6906 (9mm) with Xtra mags for less $$. I still have it and have shot it tons without a hitch.
I still have an 'itch' for a semi 10 so I'll pick another brand, model. Another member here that I respect was NOT impressed with the D E either SO....
If I were starting from scratch, the 5.25" XDM would be where I looked first, it's got a lot going for it....but I'd compare it to the G40. This is with the main focus of trigger time and woods carry in a chest pack rig.
I’ve shot my friends full size XD 45 ACP when they first came out and was thoroughly impressed with it . I see where a 10mm auto version could be just as nice . Again , I prefer the link-less persuasions when it comes to the 10mm auto ….
A friend picked up a new G40 when they became available ….. He bought an after-market Barsto barrel ( conventionally rifled and fully supported chamber ) immediately after . … Outstanding pistol . Love the sight radius of a 6 inch and the much appreciated velocity increase . I too own a Barsto barrel for my G20 .
Shooting the new Gen4 G40 with the variable recoil spring assembly , I swore the bullet smacked the 50 yard back stop before that thing came out of battery and cycled a new round …. Very smooth .
I’ve got a 1006 with adjustable sights. Meh, it’s okay, reliable and accurate enough. But I may as well carry one of my 44s with 245s going 1175, same weight more or less and the 44 has less blast and is easier to shoot to me.
Out of the box, the G20 hands down. It works, it’s accurate, holds 15 rounds and is relatively light for a full size 10mm. And you can get it with adjustable sights or easily install them. As for my favorite, I’d pick either Dan Wesson Valor 4.25” (1911 Commander) or the STI Marauder 2011 in 10mm. Also holds 15 or 17 rounds, and the trigger is awesome.
10mm 200 gr. hardcast flatpoint @ 1250 fps and 694 ft. lbs. The 220 gr. runs 1200 fps and slightly over 700 ft. lbs. of energy. I like the 10mm.
yes, just need to make sure you buy proper 10mm ammo if you wnat 10mm performance above the .40
What does that extra 250 fps. get you with this ammo?
I dunno, deeper penetration and more surely busted bones? Underwood loads XTP and a "bonded hollowpoint" (Gold Dot?) to the same levels of you like that better.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
10mm 200 gr. hardcast flatpoint @ 1250 fps and 694 ft. lbs. The 220 gr. runs 1200 fps and slightly over 700 ft. lbs. of energy. I like the 10mm.
yes, just need to make sure you buy proper 10mm ammo if you wnat 10mm performance above the .40
What does that extra 250 fps. get you with this ammo?
More noise and muzzle flash, going deaf sooner...
DF
That's what I'm thinking....
I can see a 10mm within short ranges to make expanding bullets expand; the 10mm with hard cast loads (for the extra velocity) are probably more for the optimism, rather than quantifiable results.
Why would anyone want anything other than a 9MM. With it you have it all. Looks, Power, prestige, portability , accuracy, history, stylishness and envy all wrapped up into one. Why would anyone with a working brain want anything else?
I AM THE GOOD FRIEND OF RENEGADE50. HE MENTORS ME. HE PUNISHES ME WHEN I AM WRONG. HE CALLS ME OUT WHEN I AM LYING. HE CARES GREATLY ABOUT ME.
Never seen a critter tell the difference between 1000 fps. and 1250, nor 1,500. Ever. Especially with non expanding solids from handguns. Which is why my target loads are essentially my hunting loads, for the most part.
The .40SW is extremely intriguing as a hiking pistol with HC bullets at 1000 FPS, I tried a G27 for a while and sold it one day out of angst the 40s were becoming boat anchors, plus I shot it worse than other guns which is actually hard for me to do. Interesting today that while people are buying up 9mm ammunition as fast as they put it on the shelf, very nice 40SW ammo just sitting there and a lot of it at my LGS. The G20 sucks pretty bad when compared to the nice 1911's, maybe even the witness but have not tried one of those. It only has a few attributes. You don't care if it gets dropped, dirty, wet, or run over by a truck, then every time you yank on its abortion of a trigger it goes bang (mine does), finally I can put about a full case of AA#9 under a 200 grain HC flat nose bullet and its going to go pretty fast into the general direction I point the weapon for 15 tries. The G23 would be as short as I personally would go with a 40, and the shield in 40 would be robust but concealable for sure. If I happened onto one of the old Gen2 40's for 300 bucks I would buy it, plastic sights and all, but probably spend some money on a cheap replacement barrel with conventional rifling. Doubt I would sell the G20 though, I put some adjustable meprolight sights on it, and a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 pound connector and it can hit a Campbell soup can at 7 yards most times. Plus its fun to screw with the sights all the time trying to fix my crappy shooting.
the AA #9 seems to do pretty good with the 200 and 220's. Now if sig sold a P320 in 10 mm I would for sure go to that over the G20!
I hope they don't listen.........I have enough 320s already.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
I have a crap ton of Winchester 175 gr Silvertips that a friend gave me and that are extremely accurate in my Fusion. I usually use hard cast 200 hr flat pony from DoubleTap or Underwood for deer and pigs but I did shoot a couple of deer with the Silvertips out of a 5 inch S&W 610 and they performed very nicely
Lots of 10mm's are slinging the equivalent of the .40 S&W.
Ain't that the truth. We had a customer a few years ago who bought a Delta Elite from us. Within a few days, he brought it back to the gunsmith, saying it wouldn't cycle. Our 'smith couldn't find anything wrong with it. The customer insisted that we send it back to Colt. We did, and they couldn't find anything wrong with it, either. Then he told us that he was shooting Federal AE ammo in it. We tried explaining to him that it wasn't "real" 10mm because it was only 30fps faster than the same bullet in .40 and it didn't have enough oomph for the stronger recoil spring. He was adamant that it was 10mm ammo and ended up selling the gun back to us at a big loss. Someone got a like-new Delta Elite at a good price.
Leave bullets out of this, its about 200 fps, tops.
All else equal about 250 fps, worthwhile in a semi auto handgun cartridge to be used on bigger critters like hogs and bear. Carried openly in a chest rig like the DD Guides Choice a G20 carries as easily as a G22. I can't see any advantage of carrying the less powerful .40 for deer, hog and bear in such a situation.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I'm trying to avoid that with the Match Champion. Is there a 230gr load for the 40s&w? If I can ever find a 240gr slug to try, I'll be all over it.
That is one confused revolver you got right there.
Actually nothing confused at all. Bigger hole than a .357, in the same size package, without giving up a round. Cheap and compact speed loaders. Room to bump it up to 10mm magnum if I feel goosey. Which I probably won't, 'cause seating heavy slugs long oal gives some extra powder room already. To me, it renders the .357 mag almost irrelevant.
I've got a Ruger GP-100 MC and don't know why anyone would want to bore it out to 10mm Magnum.
Jeff Quinn did that with his and a) lost the ability to run 10mm without clips b) the velocity increase wasn't that much c) started getting misfires with 10mm because the factory clips are are not for headspacing, they are for ejection. The round headspaces on the case mouth so one has to switch to the Thick Clips just like getting reliable ignition from .40 S&W. d) almost no factory ammo available e) this is a Medium-Frame gun and recoil with 200 grain full load hardcast 10mm is NOT fun...so why bother unless one wanted to get a second cylinder fitted.
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Then by all means, the 10mm has to be the way to go.....
Hell I'd take a 45 Super over a 10mm 7 days to Sunday. The 45 Suoer and 10mm in my experience penetrates about the same but the 45 leaves a much larger wound channel
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Agreed, also, if one wants some 40 cal revolver horsepower, enter the great 41 Remington Magnum!
Which completely outclasses any loading of 10mm.
Great round, sure would be interesting in an L-Frame....5 shots would be fine. Or GP-100 size......but unfluted, not fluted like the heavier 44 Special. I assume it would handle the pressure.
No doubt, a semi holds much more capacity.
Re: the 40 vs 10 when using 200 hard cast, I'd guess they both penetrate very well, based on my experience with 44 using 240gr at 1050.
As to the 10 vs 45 Super, I'd not want to get hit by either. How is the recoil out of curiosity on the Super? Guessing like a mid-range 44 mag load, but with the slide recoil?
Then by all means, the 10mm has to be the way to go.....
Hell I'd take a 45 Super over a 10mm 7 days to Sunday. The 45 Suoer and 10mm in my experience penetrates about the same but the 45 leaves a much larger wound channel
Quite honestly I'd take a 44/45 wheelgun because my imaginary/pretend isn't that creative and I've never been into video games!
I've got a Ruger GP-100 MC and don't know why anyone would want to bore it out to 10mm Magnum.
Jeff Quinn did that with his and a) lost the ability to run 10mm without clips b) the velocity increase wasn't that much c) started getting misfires with 10mm because the factory clips are are not for headspacing, they are for ejection. The round headspaces on the case mouth so one has to switch to the Thick Clips just like getting reliable ignition from .40 S&W. d) almost no factory ammo available e) this is a Medium-Frame gun and recoil with 200 grain full load hardcast 10mm is NOT fun...so why bother unless one wanted to get a second cylinder fitted.
Yeah, that's what's keeping me from doing it. But it's an option.
MBW's 200 grain LBT is reported to not work in auto magazines unless seated deeper than spec. Not even something to think about with the MC. No serious person would claim that any 10mm will stand in for a 41 mag, but even a 200gr 40 cal from a GP100 size revolver is a handy step up from the 357. I have yet to see what can be done with heavier slugs seated long, but I expect it will be worth the look. Still working my way up with that 200gr LBT.
I guess I differ on the recoil perception. I think the 220gr Underwood load is pretty manageable, while their 180gr 357 load out of the same size gun makes me want to put it down after one or two shots. Hot 200gr 10mm? Not a problem at all. Don't ask me why.
Then by all means, the 10mm has to be the way to go.....
Hell I'd take a 45 Super over a 10mm 7 days to Sunday. The 45 Suoer and 10mm in my experience penetrates about the same but the 45 leaves a much larger wound channel
Ironically, for a pistol, I'm inclined to agree that the 45 Super makes more sense.
[quote=RJM]I've got a Ruger GP-100 MC and don't know why anyone would want to bore it out to 10mm Magnum.
Yeah, that's what's keeping me from doing it. But it's an option.
MBW's 200 grain LBT is reported to not work in auto magazines unless seated deeper than spec. Not even something to think about with the MC. No serious person would claim that any 10mm will stand in for a 41 mag, but even a 200gr 40 cal from a GP100 size revolver is a handy step up from the 357. I have yet to see what can be done with heavier slugs seated long, but I expect it will be worth the look. Still working my way up with that 200gr LBT.
L to R, 10mm/200WFN, 45 ACP/200WFN, 45ACP/300 WFN. Note the 200 and 300gr. 45's seat the same depth in the case. The 10mm is too long to function and feed out of the magazine, but fits the chamber. The seating depth needs to go over that little shoulder. If I wanted more from a 10 wheelie, I would make me a bullet, not cut on the chamber.
That's one issue that crops up in the 10mm. It's the issue of OAL, at least in my two samples, which are 1911 designs. Mag length dictates a lot.
I just don't see a big difference in loading manuals between the 40 and 10mm; some people qoute 250fps. advantage. It's theoretically there, right after we add an inch or two of barrel and load it to its slightly higher SAAMI numbers. Even then....
My Colt Delta Elite stainless spends almost all its time as a .22LR now, since I got a Rock Island Armory 10mm PRO Ultra Match HC. The RIA’s nearly three and a half pound loaded weight and six inch barrel make for some easy shooting with full loads, though its dust cover rail might best be used for attaching wheels.
I'm trying to avoid that with the Match Champion. Is there a 230gr load for the 40s&w? If I can ever find a 240gr slug to try, I'll be all over it.
That is one confused revolver you got right there.
Actually nothing confused at all. Bigger hole than a .357, in the same size package, without giving up a round. Cheap and compact speed loaders. Room to bump it up to 10mm magnum if I feel goosey. Which I probably won't, 'cause seating heavy slugs long oal gives some extra powder room already. To me, it renders the .357 mag almost irrelevant.
Oh Moses smell the Roses.
Bump up to a .44 caliber and stop wasting your time.
As far as the .357 is concerned, I determined that round was irrelevant the day after I met it.
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
[quote=RJM]I've got a Ruger GP-100 MC and don't know why anyone would want to bore it out to 10mm Magnum.
Yeah, that's what's keeping me from doing it. But it's an option.
MBW's 200 grain LBT is reported to not work in auto magazines unless seated deeper than spec. Not even something to think about with the MC. No serious person would claim that any 10mm will stand in for a 41 mag, but even a 200gr 40 cal from a GP100 size revolver is a handy step up from the 357. I have yet to see what can be done with heavier slugs seated long, but I expect it will be worth the look. Still working my way up with that 200gr LBT.
L to R, 10mm/200WFN, 45 ACP/200WFN, 45ACP/300 WFN. Note the 200 and 300gr. 45's seat the same depth in the case. The 10mm is too long to function and feed out of the magazine, but fits the chamber. The seating depth needs to go over that little shoulder. If I wanted more from a 10 wheelie, I would make me a bullet, not cut on the chamber.
That's one issue that crops up in the 10mm. It's the issue of OAL, at least in my two samples, which are 1911 designs. Mag length dictates a lot.
I just don't see a big difference in loading manuals between the 40 and 10mm; some people qoute 250fps. advantage. It's theoretically there, right after we add an inch or two of barrel and load it to its slightly higher SAAMI numbers. Even then....
^^^ Lot of info in this post. ^^^
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Then by all means, the 10mm has to be the way to go.....
Hell I'd take a 45 Super over a 10mm 7 days to Sunday. The 45 Suoer and 10mm in my experience penetrates about the same but the 45 leaves a much larger wound channel
Quite honestly I'd take a 44/45 wheelgun because my imaginary/pretend isn't that creative and I've never been into video games!
Revolvers are my primary handgun when game is large, but for those that want a semi the 45 Super is superior inmy opinion
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
For me my 10mm Glock is for keeping ugly critters off me in the brush, be it four legged or two, and maybe swatting something for the grill if it's about 60 yards or closer. If I were gonna pack a revolver for that I would likely use a 4" magnum .41 with a 220 gr. hardcast around 1200 - 1250 fps to keep it manageable. Sorta like the 220 gr. from the 10mm...
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
For me my 10mm Glock is for keeping ugly critters off me in the brush, be it four legged or two, and maybe swatting something for the grill if it's about 60 yards or closer. If I were gonna pack a revolver for that I would likely use a 4" magnum .41 with a 220 gr. hardcast around 1200 - 1250 fps to keep it manageable. Sorta like the 220 gr. from the 10mm...
The powders used to get to 1200-1250 in either are what make both annoying, unless you enjoy rung ears for a week.
1000-1100 in both give up nothing on game, make great target and hunting loads and dont require so much fuel, especially the louder/cracking ones. Let the bullet do the heavy lifting.
Believe me, if I thought 1,200, 1,300 or more made a difference to the critters Ive keeled with cast, I would continue the ear-ringing, ass kicking loads I used to use.
Youll also find, at the 100 mark, the more sedentary loads dont slow down as much as the "powerful" ones...
I think if I wanted an out of the box 10mm Auto for hunting my first choice would be a DW Bruin. In revolvers I would be happy with the S&W 610 or the Ruger Blackhawk. The first thing I would do with the Blackhawk would be to send off the .40 cylinder and have it chambered you .38-40
For me my 10mm Glock is for keeping ugly critters off me in the brush, be it four legged or two, and maybe swatting something for the grill if it's about 60 yards or closer. If I were gonna pack a revolver for that I would likely use a 4" magnum .41 with a 220 gr. hardcast around 1200 - 1250 fps to keep it manageable. Sorta like the 220 gr. from the 10mm...
If/when Ruger makes a GP100 in 41 mag, I may be all over it.
I'm trying to avoid that with the Match Champion. Is there a 230gr load for the 40s&w? If I can ever find a 240gr slug to try, I'll be all over it.
That is one confused revolver you got right there.
Actually nothing confused at all. Bigger hole than a .357, in the same size package, without giving up a round. Cheap and compact speed loaders. Room to bump it up to 10mm magnum if I feel goosey. Which I probably won't, 'cause seating heavy slugs long oal gives some extra powder room already. To me, it renders the .357 mag almost irrelevant.
Oh Moses smell the Roses.
Bump up to a .44 caliber and stop wasting your time.
As far as the .357 is concerned, I determined that round was irrelevant the day after I met it.
Don't care for large frame revolvers. Don't particularly care for five-shooters. My risk assessment doesn't call for that level of power, and I hunt with a rifle. But thanks for your concern.
For me my 10mm Glock is for keeping ugly critters off me in the brush, be it four legged or two, and maybe swatting something for the grill if it's about 60 yards or closer. If I were gonna pack a revolver for that I would likely use a 4" magnum .41 with a 220 gr. hardcast around 1200 - 1250 fps to keep it manageable. Sorta like the 220 gr. from the 10mm...
If/when Ruger makes a GP100 in 41 mag, I may be all over it.
Hopefully it's a six shooter.
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Don't care for large frame revolvers. Don't particularly care for five-shooters. My risk assessment doesn't call for that level of power, and I hunt with a rifle. But thanks for your concern.
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
There are a few custom gunsmiths who will turn a GP-100 into a .41 Special but none would do a .41 Magnum that I know of... While the GP is a very strong mid-frame revolver it would never stand up to the beating that full bore .41 Magnums would do to it...and for that matter most shooters could not either.
I have three Taurus Trackers in .41 Magnum. Two are titanium and one stainless steel. They are about the same size and as the GP and the SS is about the same weight but you would not to care shoot them with standard factory loads most of which push a 210 grain jacketed bullet at 1250 fps from a 4" barrel.
As to comparing 10mm to .41, standard BIG Three ammo companies run their 210 grain loads in the 1250 fps range from a 4" barrel. Comparing a 10mm of the same size, like a 1911 with a 5" barrel, 200-220 grain bullets can be run to the same velocity....but that is where it ends. The .41 can be loaded with bullets up to 300 grains and run 1275 from a 5.5" barrel. The 255 CP (which flave has shot in my gun) run 1205 out of a 4" Model 57.
A better round for the GP-100 and totally doable is the .401 Herter's PowerMag...or a rimmed 10mm Magnum...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
The watered down FBI loads. Not real stuff like the original Norma and modern Underwood Ammo loadings.
Watered down, yes, but there it is. And the "real stuff" is in the tiny minority, while most stuff, as I said, is easily caught or beaten in a handloaded 40 with a 5" barrel. Not so "short and weak" compared to the 10, which was my point, since I am outdoing most guys firing a 10 most of the time.
I have had a few stock Colt Delta's over the years that have run without a hitch. Of course you have to invest some in the trigger and sights to get them just right. Dan Wesson's come correct right from the factory as well as some others. The XDM looks like a winner.
The one in the picture was built by a known pistol smith out in in VA (not Novak). I bought it barely used. It has the stock barrel refitted and is more accurate than I am over the years. Georgia Arms 180 grain Gold Dots in it most of the time. Double Tap 200 gr XTP's if I am in the boonies for any length of time.
Glad the 10mm is finally getting it's due. It is a compromise, but covers a lot of bases.
Hunt and Shoot, if I fill a 10mm case with AA#9 and fill a 40SW case with AA#9 or for those that care 12.5 grains vs 17 grains and put a 200 grain HC bullet on top of it do you think that the 300 fps difference is worth it?
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
The watered down FBI loads. Not real stuff like the original Norma and modern Underwood Ammo loadings.
Watered down, yes, but there it is. And the "real stuff" is in the tiny minority, while most stuff, as I said, is easily caught or beaten in a handloaded 40 with a 5" barrel. Not so "short and weak" compared to the 10, which was my point, since I am outdoing most guys firing a 10 most of the time.
What kind of ignorance compares factory loads in a long case with handloads in a short case? If you're already handloading, the S&W is the weaker of the two. Simple.
For me my 10mm Glock is for keeping ugly critters off me in the brush, be it four legged or two, and maybe swatting something for the grill if it's about 60 yards or closer. If I were gonna pack a revolver for that I would likely use a 4" magnum .41 with a 220 gr. hardcast around 1200 - 1250 fps to keep it manageable. Sorta like the 220 gr. from the 10mm...
If/when Ruger makes a GP100 in 41 mag, I may be all over it.
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
The watered down FBI loads. Not real stuff like the original Norma and modern Underwood Ammo loadings.
Watered down, yes, but there it is. And the "real stuff" is in the tiny minority, while most stuff, as I said, is easily caught or beaten in a handloaded 40 with a 5" barrel. Not so "short and weak" compared to the 10, which was my point, since I am outdoing most guys firing a 10 most of the time.
What kind of ignorance compares factory loads in a long case with handloads in a short case? If you're already handloading, the S&W is the weaker of the two. Simple.
I was stating facts. What kind of ignorance can't see the facts? Sure, if I am handloading the 10, I can stomp all over the 40. I didn't say that. Some [bleep] stated they still call the 40 short and weak. Yet I explained how it beats most 10mm factory ammo if loaded properly. We aren't arguing case capacities, moron, because that's a moronic argument. We are arguing whether the 40 is actually weak. Ask guys firing most 10mm factory ammo if their 10 is weak. Go ahead and declare it weak. It is.
You might try to use your brain before typing next time.
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
INone of my 40's are built to handle 200gr. bullets at 1100 or 1200 or 1250 fps. If you've got that power out of a 40SW, I'd sell the recipe to one of the boutique ammo suppliers. I'm sure they'll be interested in your SAAMI spec cocktail, you'll both make some good $.
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
INone of my 40's are built to handle 200gr. bullets at 1100 or 1200 or 1250 fps. If you've got that power out of a 40SW, I'd sell the recipe to one of the boutique ammo suppliers. I'm sure they'll be interested in your SAAMI spec cocktail, you'll both make some good $.
I can get 1100 with 200's without breaking a sweat. Just like most 10mm factory ammo. When you start talking 1200 or 1250, that's boutique ammo. I don't know why the major manufacturers load the 10 to such pathetic specs, but there it is.
I find it fuucking funny that you guys take this so personally that you can't seem to wrap your heads around it. Most 10 factory ammo specs are beaten in same size gun in handloaded 40 S&W, which is thus NOT weak.
I find it fuucking funny that you guys take this so personally that you can't seem to wrap your heads around it. Most 10 factory ammo specs are beaten in same size gun in handloaded 40 S&W, which is thus NOT weak.
Yeah, I'll keep pissing in your cheerios.
Your apples to oranges comparison isn’t pissing in anyone’s Cheerios it’s just false economy at best.
Yes hand loaded 40 ammo can equal and in some loads beat factory 10mm. But then again most people who handloads can easily make their 10 stomp all over your precious 40 loads.
Make an apples to apples comparison and you 40 is still short and weak in comparison
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
INone of my 40's are built to handle 200gr. bullets at 1100 or 1200 or 1250 fps. If you've got that power out of a 40SW, I'd sell the recipe to one of the boutique ammo suppliers. I'm sure they'll be interested in your SAAMI spec cocktail, you'll both make some good $.
I can get 1100 with 200's without breaking a sweat. Just like most 10mm factory ammo. When you start talking 1200 or 1250, that's boutique ammo. I don't know why the major manufacturers load the 10 to such pathetic specs, but there it is.
I find it fuucking funny that you guys take this so personally that you can't seem to wrap your heads around it. Most 10 factory ammo specs are beaten in same size gun in handloaded 40 S&W, which is thus NOT weak.
Yeah, I'll keep pissing in your cheerios.
You seem to think that 10mm shooters don't use full power 10mm loads. Think of it as .44 Mag - .44 Special, .357 Mag - .38 Special and 10mm - 10mm Lite and/or .40 S&W. In today's information age shooters are well aware of full power 10mm potential. And I'll agree, you are making an apples to oranges comparison.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I used to use a glock 20 so but I could never get complete reliability with it. I bought a XDM 10 when they first came out and it ran flawless. I then traded it for the threaded barrel xdm 10 with mos and a venom dot. It runs perfectly too but I miss the plain old xdm 10 4.5 and will get another.
I ended up selling the glock 20 but still have a kkm match barrel in 40 s&w for one i need to sell. I used to long load 40 brass to 10mm speeds with this barrel. It was awesome not chasing brass.
I also have a gp100 match champion that I haven't shot yet. Its still new in the box I guess I'm trying to decide if i really want it.
the 40 vs 10 argument seems to be a case of mistaken identity. Fill both up with powder and the 10 case holds more, if anyone handloads one of them they can handload the other, if stuck with store bought there is probably not a big difference until you get to buffalo bore, or underwood etc. but again BB 40SW I think is 1000 fps with 200 grain. I often wonder if a .40 200 grain HC at 1000 fps, will shoot into a soft skinned animal about as much as a 200 grain hc at 1350. Whitworth must be on vacation, he might know the answer to a question like that.
the 40 vs 10 argument seems to be a case of mistaken identity. Fill both up with powder and the 10 case holds more, if anyone handloads one of them they can handload the other, if stuck with store bought there is probably not a big difference until you get to buffalo bore, or underwood etc. but again BB 40SW I think is 1000 fps with 200 grain. I often wonder if a .40 200 grain HC at 1000 fps, will shoot into a soft skinned animal about as much as a 200 grain hc at 1350. Whitworth must be on vacation, he might know the answer to a question like that.
The answer to your question is, as long as the faster bullet is up to the additional speed the f as ster bullet will penetrate deeper. The damage to lung tissue will be increased by the faster projectile.
A hard cast of around 20 brinel will stand 1400 FPS and penetrate very well
Just think 38 special VS 357 mag one is faster than the other and more effective
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
How did this thread get hi-jacked into the following discussion of the merits versus shortcomings of the 40 S&W ? .. The original post was a question for 10mm owners what their favorite platform was out of the box …. Geez , who jingled the shiny object ?
Originally Posted by Burleyboy
I used to use a glock 20 so but I could never get complete reliability with it.
Bb
Wow really ? …. I don't think I've ever seen a Glock that didn't digest every load it was fed .
Our family use the10mm, we have 4 Springfield XD's, 4 Glock mod 20's, 2 1911's a Dan Wesson razorback and a SIG. All have been reliable, despite being a 1911 guy my favorite has become the Springfield XD. Use the Underwood 140 JHP for 2 legged at 1600FPS and 220HC for 4 legged critters at 1250FPS.
Ha, back in the early days of the 40, they called It the 40 Short and Weak.
Still do.
Only the ignorant ones do. I best most 10mm factory loads in a 40. With room to spare.
The watered down FBI loads. Not real stuff like the original Norma and modern Underwood Ammo loadings.
Watered down, yes, but there it is. And the "real stuff" is in the tiny minority, while most stuff, as I said, is easily caught or beaten in a handloaded 40 with a 5" barrel. Not so "short and weak" compared to the 10, which was my point, since I am outdoing most guys firing a 10 most of the time.
What kind of ignorance compares factory loads in a long case with handloads in a short case? If you're already handloading, the S&W is the weaker of the two. Simple.
I was stating facts. What kind of ignorance can't see the facts? Sure, if I am handloading the 10, I can stomp all over the 40. I didn't say that. Some [bleep] stated they still call the 40 short and weak. Yet I explained how it beats most 10mm factory ammo if loaded properly. We aren't arguing case capacities, moron, because that's a moronic argument. We are arguing whether the 40 is actually weak. Ask guys firing most 10mm factory ammo if their 10 is weak. Go ahead and declare it weak. It is.
You might try to use your brain before typing next time.
Looks like a hit a sore spot. Hope you can get that fixed.
Yeah, I call most 10mm factory loads "10mm lite" too. 40 short&weak = 10mm lite. So what? Claiming that the 40 is just as powerful as the 10mm is just ignorant - or wishful thinking. Just like claiming the same regarding the 10mm and 41 mag (which no one has done in this thread). Using your "logic" in the argument doesn't change any of that. Facts are just meaningless facts when they don't prove anything.
I think this is a good time to challenge all you 40s&w fans to tell those who are using 45 Colt that their pet revolvers aren't any better than a 45 acp, since, after all, factory 45 Colt is not so hot, and 45 acp +p loads from botique loaders are about the same.
What we need are some videos of the difference in power as the calibers are used to pummel game. Pummeling is the name of the game. The cavity made by the souped up projectile will be great in volume, wide in scope and long in depth. The unsouped up projectiles will produce a cavity that is less in volume, narrow in width and short in penetration. I bet the Illuminated One is making videos at this very moment to be introduced shortly to illustrate this very thing. One good thing about the 10MM is it can use the HOT Remington 2 1/2 Magnum primer which will turn it into awesomeness personified. But it will never be as great as the Miraculose Farce 9MM. Get yourselves some greatness. Get a 9MM and arm yourselves with the Grizzly Bear load. The 10MM will pale in comparison.
I AM THE GOOD FRIEND OF RENEGADE50. HE MENTORS ME. HE PUNISHES ME WHEN I AM WRONG. HE CALLS ME OUT WHEN I AM LYING. HE CARES GREATLY ABOUT ME.
the 40 vs 10 argument seems to be a case of mistaken identity. Fill both up with powder and the 10 case holds more, if anyone handloads one of them they can handload the other, if stuck with store bought there is probably not a big difference until you get to buffalo bore, or underwood etc. but again BB 40SW I think is 1000 fps with 200 grain. I often wonder if a .40 200 grain HC at 1000 fps, will shoot into a soft skinned animal about as much as a 200 grain hc at 1350. Whitworth must be on vacation, he might know the answer to a question like that.
The answer to your question is, as long as the faster bullet is up to the additional speed the f as ster bullet will penetrate deeper. The damage to lung tissue will be increased by the faster projectile.
A hard cast of around 20 brinel will stand 1400 FPS and penetrate very well
Just think 38 special VS 357 mag one is faster than the other and more effective
I think the 38 special with round nose lead bullets left a lot to be desired. Here is the question modified, is 1000 fps and 200 grains hard cast fast enough to shoot deep enough into a large animal to penetrate organs needed for life? The answer might be, probably but its more probable at 1300 fps. Then the trade off becomes size of the gun, vs size of the anticipated target. For black bear a hard cast 9mm 147 grain most probably would make them stop what they were doing in a relatively short time if shot into the lung, heart area, for certain larger animals on average need faster heavier bullets. I think only a very rich moron would hunt big heavy animals with a 9mm, on the other hand a lazy suburbanite hiking in the smoky mountains might be fine with a small lightweight 40SW and hard cast bullets.
the 40 vs 10 argument seems to be a case of mistaken identity. Fill both up with powder and the 10 case holds more, if anyone handloads one of them they can handload the other, if stuck with store bought there is probably not a big difference until you get to buffalo bore, or underwood etc. but again BB 40SW I think is 1000 fps with 200 grain. I often wonder if a .40 200 grain HC at 1000 fps, will shoot into a soft skinned animal about as much as a 200 grain hc at 1350. Whitworth must be on vacation, he might know the answer to a question like that.
The answer to your question is, as long as the faster bullet is up to the additional speed the f as ster bullet will penetrate deeper. The damage to lung tissue will be increased by the faster projectile.
A hard cast of around 20 brinel will stand 1400 FPS and penetrate very well
Just think 38 special VS 357 mag one is faster than the other and more effective
I think the 38 special with round nose lead bullets left a lot to be desired. Here is the question modified, is 1000 fps and 200 grains hard cast fast enough to shoot deep enough into a large animal to penetrate organs needed for life? The answer might be, probably but its more probable at 1300 fps. Then the trade off becomes size of the gun, vs size of the anticipated target. For black bear a hard cast 9mm 147 grain most probably would make them stop what they were doing in a relatively short time if shot into the lung, heart area, for certain larger animals on average need faster heavier bullets. I think only a very rich moron would hunt big heavy animals with a 9mm, on the other hand a lazy suburbanite hiking in the smoky mountains might be fine with a small lightweight 40SW and hard cast bullets.
Pick any bullet in 38/357 and the 357 will be more effective because of the increased velociity
Since Phill Shoemaker killed as 900 pound grizzly with a 147 grain 9mm, the 40 should be more better
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Good posts folks! The info on the 40 is welcomed btw, also a 10mm.
As to the 44 'caliber' comment........did you mean .429
No doubt, Size matters in handguns, those Wide Meplat loads above are nasty looking. Will some Semi's run those, or are those strictly wheelgun compatible?
My 40 will do a 200 at 1025. Empties land six feet away. Increasing Longshot powder carefully, it is running 1115 with same bullet. Empties land six away. Primer pockets remain snug. I tried a geelock number 20 some years ago. Not easy to attain 1200 fps AND KEEP PRIMER POCKETS SNUG. I did not try AA9 though. My neighbor has one so I’ll try in his. And I could not stand that idiotic grip angle or the grip size. I wear xxl gloves by the way. I shot the block with the same bullet as I’m shooting now. Shot a couple thousand rounds from it with good reliability. I’m over a thousand rounds from an M & P 5” with complete reliability, a grip angle that is compatible with fifty years of 1911 shooting and a thumb safety.
I always thought they were intended to make deep holes in big animals, break bones along the way and keep moving. Just like you would not shoot a deer with a 40 grain vmax out of a 223 and expect it to make it through the animal, you probably would not have optimal results using a 115 +P+ federal LE hollow point on a large black bear. I am not an expert however generally speaking a hole deep into the animal or through the animal works faster in my experience with shooting animals.
When Springfield came out with their Omega way back when, I had to have one but didn't keep it long. After a lot of years, I got the bug again and bought the new generation Delta Elite (2016?) but haven't warmed up to it. More recently, I added the EAA Elite Stock II with the intent to sell the Delta but still have it. I haven't shot the Delta since buying the EAA, so suppose the EAA is my favorite...
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