Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire So, which of the 6 theories of Evolution do you unbelievers believe in?

Why do you keep repeating the same fallacy? The contradiction is there for anyone to see and read.

There is a divide between those that actually see it as it is and those that deny it....believers who filter information through the lense of their faith.

Christianity = investing in Conjecture as to
what happened in the past and to what the
future holds.

Jag,

Apologies ahead of time as I have to be brief and then sign off..... a drive-by .... sort of.

Anyway, I think it was you that made comment regarding the why of all the millennia of the dealings of God and Man. That's probably not how worded it, but I will go on as if it was.

It seems to me that Man may indeed be on some sort of stage. I would not be surprised if there are not millions if not billions of "angels" who are very interested observers of how God is dealing with Man. Seems that 1/3 of the angels rebelled and were cast out.... perhaps God is serving more than one purpose when dealing with Man. He is demonstrating His character to them in ways perhaps never done before. IDK

He is demonstrating who He is and the What and WHY of his actions. We on earth can see from one perspective and the heavenly hosts see from a different perspective. As has been noted, His ways are not our ways and His purposes are not clearly understood by us.

So, postulate that there is more going on and there is a "stage" aspect concerning the life and times of Man.

Now, switch gears for a moment..... maybe there is NOT a difference in the "nature" or "character" of God.... OT vs New Testament.

Thinks dispensations for a bit.... Scholars will characterize the Dispensation of the Law as the 5th Dispensation. A dispensation simply meaning that for a season, God dealt with Man in certain ways for certain purposes as He brings about the culmination of Creation.

The Dispensation of the Law had its purpose..... and now we are in the Dispensation of Grace. God did not change at all. He may be dealing with Man in different ways as He demonstrates who He is and what His purposes are.

For those that don't know, there is ample evidence in the Old Testament that reveals the character of God and that character as revealed in the OT is identical to what is revealed in the NT. The idea is the God does not and has not changed, but He deals with Man in different ways... the dispensations were different.... God was not different ....all leading up to Jesus' death on the cross and the Dispensation of Grace.

Anyway, a difficult subject for a Campfire post..... must be brief and that is the nature of the "Fire. Also, trying to explain dispensations to non-Christians is problematic.

Also, this will make no sense whatsoever to the non-Christians who may read it. To those I say.... do your study.

Here is a link to a introduction to Dispensational thinking and interpretation. Will only make sense to Christians.

https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-dispensations.html


My own view is that I have never read any discourse on Dispensations that I am really comfortable with. Many articles on dispensations end up with teachings on the Rapture and Millennial Reign that I am not sure about.

Ordering genocide and killing for sometimes trivial reasons contradicts the new testament definition of a God of love. The former is simply not compatible with the latter, not logically, not morally, not ethically.

The O.T. In parts uses the term Satan,
(Job and Chronicles). that is not of Hebrew
origin but Babylonian.

So saying the Hebrews were influenced by them,
is that only a matter of subjective opinion?
or a matter of objective evidence based fact?

The evolution of Yahweh as the god of the tribe of Israel.

Quote:

''Although the Bible, and specifically the Book of Exodus, presents Yahweh as the god of the Israelites, there are many passages which make clear that this deity was also worshipped by other peoples in Canaan. Amzallag notes that the Edomites, Kenites, Moabites, and Midianites all worshipped Yahweh to one degree or another and that there is evidence the Edomites who operated the mines at Timnah converted an earlier Egyptian temple of Hathor to the worship of Yahweh.

Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity).

The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel’s development in Canaan.''

Yahweh in the Canaanite Pantheon

''The biblical narrative, however, is not as straightforward as it may seem as it also includes reference to the Canaanite god El whose name is directly referenced in `Israel’ (He Who Struggles with God or He Who Perseveres with God). El was the chief deity of the Canaanite pantheon and the god who, according to the Bible, gave Yahweh authority over the Israelites:

When the Most High [El] gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the Sons of God. For Yahweh’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. (Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Masoretic Text).

The Canaanites, like all ancient civilizations, worshipped many gods but chief among them was the sky-god El. In this passage from Deuteronomy, El gives each of the gods authority over a segment of the people of earth and Yahweh is assigned to the Israelites who, in time, will make him their supreme and only deity; but it is clear he existed beforehand as a lesser Canaanite god.
Yahweh, as the actual name of the supreme being, seems to have remained in use until the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BCE. ''

Damn... I didnt know that.. Thats like Odin giving other smaller Gods rule over different tribes.
Thor - Norway
Balder - Sweden
Heimdal - Denmark
Tyr - Iceland

So.. Yahwe is just a sub God, given rule of a tribe.
Then the Christians God, is just a sub-sub-sub God of the true God.

Yet, claiming theirs is the right one... and killing others in the name of love.


.

Apparently the O.T. and N.T. God is about 'free-will',
Yet monotheistic control freak Jews and christians
went about the countryside systematically destroying
temples and shrines belonging to folks who worshiped other deities.

Clearly they were not content unless they had a
theocratic monopoly on faith, by having everyone
worship their brand of God under duress.

I'm not surprised you don't post your answer. It's always the same for those who reject God infallible Word and accept man's fallible word.
[/quote]

1. first off, I dropped out of this thread because of some health issues (2 surgeries and 3 trips to the ER) so you can shut your smug mouth......brother.
2. My firm belief is that the Word of God is infallible and I preach from God's Infallible Word 3 times each week. So, you are wrong again. But I do hold greatly that your inflated ego is very fallible.
3. I'm not a macroevolutionist, so you are wrong again.
4. I have a Master of Divinity Degree, so I don't have to depend on the KJV Bible that has quite a few unfortunate issues ( 1 they addressed 1 yr after the original printing). None of these issues, however, affect the message of the gospel; there are, though, some bad translation issues in it because they mostly translated from Latin, which would make it a translation from a translation instead of mostly relying on the original Aramaic, Koine Greek, and Hebrew. They also translated often from classical Greek instead of Koine quite a few times. And, they inserted names of fairytale animals that never existed because they did not understand the Greek word for the animal in the Hebrew.
5. If I were a Hebrew, in particular if I was a very educated man named Moses, from roughly 3400-3500 years ago, I would write it in Hebrew just as it appears in the Hebrew language Bible if I wanted to express long "days". Look it up. It is readily available online.
6. You still haven't answered, as far as I know, how all that happened in one day. Not to mention how, in 1 day, Adam was created and enjoyed fellowship with God, had time to observe and name all the animals on the earth, found time to become lonely, had time to have surgery and recover from surgery in order for Eve to be fashioned by God from His rib.........and time to sleep that night. Basically, all that happened in about 12-16 hours? (at least 8 he was asleep).
Or, how all the animals sprang from the earth and reproduced after their own kind multiple times in 24 hours..........I know of no mammal with a gestation period of 6 hours.
* I don't think you believe that the wording of Genesis 1 is literal. Only the couple of words that you want to be your version of literal.

7. And, again, with your answer you presume to accuse me, a very conservative Baptist preacher of being an evolutionist by staw manning me the argument "leaving no room for water life to produce land life. There is no compatibility with evolution and Genesis One." I AM NOT AN EVOLUTIONIST!!!!!! I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACROEVOLUTION!!!!!!

8. I believe in the literal infallible Word of God. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

As this statement applies to Ringman, you would be wrong.

The Jewish nation was a covenant nation and, therefore, judged as a nation.
They were (are) a chosen people and must hold to the covenant they agreed to with God.
If they didn't like the covenant, they shouldn't have agreed to it.
Hebrews that came along later could choose to live under the covenant or not. But, if they wanted the blessings that came with the covenant, they they must be part of the covenant. Also, they were free to leave and go live wherever and worship whatever gods they wanted to. God didn't force them to worship Him, but outlined the blessings and/or penalties that came with the choices they made.

Now, if you want to condemn the Catholic Church for the heresies committed during the middle ages and for the Inquisition, have at it. I have no problem with that because they were wrong for it......and needed a Reformation.....lol.

No, Ant, he is espousing his own literal translation of the word "day" as being 24 hours only...... Yet, he is bringing up something "extra-biblical" to explain the literal words describing what happened on the days the plants, animals, and man were created.

He wants it literal in one place, but figurative in others. (actually, his "own definition of literal")

I hold to a literal understanding of the whole chapter. But, it's the literal Hebrew, not the literal KJV.

Most people have a misunderstanding about the names of God. God utilizes progressive revelation. IOW, As you travel thru the centuries, God is revealing Himself more and more fully and in various situations until the fullest revelation of Himself in Jesus Christ.

The reason "Yahweh" is not found in Genesis, is because God had not yet revealed Himself as Yahweh until God spoke to Moses at the Burning Bush episode. He revealed that He would deliver Israel, but they must become "His people" under the covenant.

Exodus 6 1 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Now you shall see what I will do to Pharaoh; for under compulsion he will let them go, and [b]under compulsion he will drive them out of his land.” 2 God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am the Lord; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, Lord, I did not make Myself known to them.

Yahweh is the covenant Name of God. Prior to that, He was know as El or Elohim and the many compound names found throughout the Bible.

Savage_Hunter,

Hope your health issues are much better. Do you believe that followers of Jesus are still ‘under the law’...?

Anybody can claim to be a Christian. The lifestyle one lives either confirms that he actually has faith or actually does not.

james 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?


take a look at the list of folks that are not going to heaven (aren't born again).... Do you think 79% of black Americans ( or white Americans) are living a godly lifestyle? Hint...Hint... no.

Gal 5:19-20 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 6:9-11 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

thanks, but I am still not well. I go back to MD (from the 2nd surgery) in 9 days and hopefully get some good news. I've had 3 consecutive weeks of ER visits after the 2nd surgery.
I missed 3 weeks in the pulpit and am likely to miss 12 weeks from my secular job. I've been able to preach the past 2 Sundays.


I'm going to assume you mean the 10 Commandments and not the Jewish covenant laws. We are definitely not under the Jewish covenant law.

As to the 10 Commandments, The answer is "yes and no".

The OT 10 Commandments are written as the "letter of the Law" and the motivation for keeping them is from obedience to escape punishment and "because God said so".

Christians are under the 2 Great Commandments given by Jesus. These 2 commandments sum up the 10 Laws into 2 Laws. And, a couple of things to point out....
(1) the motivation for keeping the law changes to love for Jesus Christ instead of just stark obedience to escape punishment.
(2) If a NT believer breaks the 10 commandments, he has sinned, so, yes, the 10 Commandments are still relevant in the Age of Grace.
(3) The 2 Commandments of Jesus hold us to a higher standard than the 10 Commandments actually do.

I preached a sermon a good maybe a year or so ago called "Is the Law Relevant in the Age of Grace". I could post it to you in a PM if you like.

Middle Ages?... try rolling the film way back to
4th century, where Martin of Tours with support
of the state/Emperor went about the land in a
draconian way systematically innihilating other
people's choice and ways of worship.

Pastor Jimmy Evans figures from scripture saying that within the generation that Israel regained their homeland the Lord would return again. Now, as far as I can determine, from scripture, a generation is 70 to 80 years. Jimmy Evans has figured the date of Wormwood, the huge asteroid revealed in Revelation those left behind in the tribulation will have to deal with, to be Friday April 13, 2029 iirc.That will occur, evidently, after or near the end of tribulation, then the millenium of Christs rule will begin, with Satan and his minions in the dungeon in chains, and when the earth will be renewed.
Now, so Jimmy subtracts 7 years of tribulation from the May 13, 2029 and that puts Christs return about May 2022.

1 Thes 5:9-11 God has not appointed us to wrath, meaning the believers will not face the tribulation. The tribulation is Gods Wrath. The age of grace will have the door closed and then begins Gods wrath, the tribulation.

Joel 3

..... Rouse the warriors!
Let all the fighting men draw near and attack.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords
and your pruning hooks into spears.....

Oh, so they are not really Scotsmen because you say they are not.

Ok, got it.

That would be cool. I wish we knew for sure, because I need to have thumb joint replacement surgery on my right thumb, I had my left one done in May and it's doing nicely. (It is the surgery I had in June that is wonky).
I would not want to have that surgery done if Jesus is coming back next year because it'd be needless suffering with no payoff.


I could plainly see how this could easily happen if the democrats win this year.