I have a friend who teaches concealed carry and a couple of other pistol training classes. I've stopped by a few of his classes to talk about holsters and carry gear and have had the chance to observe his students and what guns they are shooting. I would estimate that about 95% of his students bring semi-autos to the class, particularly the really small ones like the Ruger LCP, S&W Shield and equivalent type guns. Since many are beginning shooters, or at least not Advanced Shooters, they often have trouble even learning how to shoot the semi-autos properly. A good portion of the time in his class you spent talking about tap rack Bang and how to clear a malfunction from my semi-auto. In every single class he has one or two people that have a firearm that schitts the bed or just won't operate well enough for them to get through the class. In that case he provides them with one of his own Glock 19's that he keeps for the class. His so called "advanced" pistol class involves running and gunning and shooting behind barriers and other crap that would be more akin to some Special Forces operator than the regular citizen trying to defend himself. I'm all for people being able to choose and shoot what they want, but I honestly feel that so much of the general population would be better served with a 6-shot revolver than a semi-auto pistol. The manual of arms of a revolver is just so much more simple for someone who is not a professional and has to kick down a door to arrest someone. I have both, and I carry both. Folks just can't seem to get over the issue of only having five or six shots before having to reload.
Many people would be better served with a double action revolver. Increasing numbers of people have decided that they need to be armed with a firearm. Many of those people are arriving at that conclusion for the first time in their lives. The vast majority were not raised on a farm, and do not have military experience, therefore, they have never touched a gun before, and their only knowledge of firearms comes from what they have seen on television. On television, these days, everyone shoots a semi auto. In the real world, all the policemen carry semi autos. The cat behind the counter at the gun shop, and the only "gun guy" they know, or are related to, carries a semi auto. As a result, they figure they need a semi auto, too.
Well, there are problems with this: Females, older folks with arthritis, and younger people with injuries have trouble with slide manipulation, Those same people can have issues getting magazines fully loaded. There are cheat devices that help load mags and force back the slide, or even firearms that feature "EZ" slide manipulation and in some cases, tip up barrels which never need to have the slide retracted. They can help those who are dedicated to learning their firearm.
The alternative is a revolver. Specifically, a double action revolver. Push the slide release forward, downward, or pull it to the rear. Use the fingers of your support hand to apply pressure from right to left. Drop one round into each hole and close cylinder. Need to shoot? Pull the trigger. Still need to shoot? Pull the trigger again. Bad primer? Pull the trigger again. (Tap, rack, re-assess is never this quick in a Semi Auto).
"But 5 or 6 rounds might not be enough!" I get that, and understand completely, but let's be realistic. Only the gun you have on you, when things go $hitty is of use to you. If the only thing you can count on having with you 24/7/365 is a 5 shot J frame, then carry it till you wear the finish off it. On the flip side, if you can carry a full size G17 on the same time frame, then by all means....
I've taught a few CCDW classes, and I have seen a slew of the little 380's and compact 40's, etc. Regardless of gender, I find that folks often have trouble with them. More than that, mostly I honestly believe that a large portion of folks would be better served with a revolver.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
... Since many are beginning shooters, or at least not Advanced Shooters, they often have trouble even learning how to shoot the semi-autos properly. A good portion of the time in his class you spent talking about tap rack Bang and how to clear a malfunction from my semi-auto. His so called "advanced" pistol class involves running and gunning and shooting behind barriers and other crap that would be more akin to some Special Forces operator than the regular citizen trying to defend himself. I'm all for people being able to choose and shoot what they want, but I honestly feel that so much of the general population would be better served with a 6-shot revolver than a semi-auto pistol. The manual of arms of a revolver is just so much more simple for someone who is not a professional and has to kick down a door to arrest someone. I have both, and I carry both. Folks just can't seem to get over the issue of only having five or six shots before having to reload.
Any opinions on this?
I've cherry picked a couple of salient points here.
On the revolver vs. semi-auto, a revolver is going to be easier to learn and especially when clearing malfunctions - pull the trigger again. Whether 5-6 shots is enough, too many opinions and too many situations to state unequivocally one way or the other. Most gunfights are still decided in the first 2-3 seconds with just a few shots fired. "Most". As they say, you get the fight you get, not the fight you want.
But the highlighted parts I think are important for Joe and Jane Citizen, not Joe Alphabet Gamer or Joe Hi-speed Lo-Drag. Just MHO but if someone is going to carry concealed I think the greatest amount of training should be spent in drawing quickly and getting that first shot on target. The person who gets the first good hit ups his or her odds of winning the fight tremendously. Second greatest amount of time should be spent on getting the remaining shots on target - and that would certainly include clearing malfunctions. That second guy in the Texas church lost his life fumbling on the draw, the guy who ended the situation drew cleanly and took one good shot.
All of this starting from a high ready like you're third in line of a dynamic entry team really isn't pertinent to a guy going about his business and suddenly confronted with a deadly force situation. And while I sure applaud those folks who run toward the sound of gunfire, there are all kinds of legal and personal reasons to be very circumspect in such a situation. I used to joke that I carried a Kel-Tec P32 only to make loud noises long enough for me to get the hell out of there in the confusion.
I'm not saying don't do any of that tactical stuff, folks who argue in favor of it can come up with a zillion different scenarios where it would be advantageous to have that training; in any case more trigger time and training of any kind don't hurt. And if you are a LEO whose job is to run to the gunfire or a genuine HSLD operator or you want to win at the combat games then go for it.
I just think too much time is spent on the tactical stuff emphasizing scenarios that are less likely to happen for the average citizen carrying concealed versus being able to quickly clear the draw, present and get accurate shots off from a concealed carry.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
With revolvers, they'd have to master the DA trigger pull.
...not very hard if the instructor is competent and knows how...but about 95% don't. When I was a NRA Training Councillor a lot of my younger instructor candidates had never even handled let alone shot a DA revolver...
When I teach Basic Pistol courses everyone starts off with a DA revolver...and learns how to shoot it DA. In some of the classes 90% of the students shoot smaller groups DA than SA.
It's also important to master DA revolver shooting because in looking at the most popular semi-autos, their trigger pulls are much like a DA revolver...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
I have a friend who teaches concealed carry and a couple of other pistol training classes. I've stopped by a few of his classes to talk about holsters and carry gear and have had the chance to observe his students and what guns they are shooting. I would estimate that about 95% of his students bring semi-autos to the class, particularly the really small ones like the Ruger LCP, S&W Shield and equivalent type guns. Since many are beginning shooters, or at least not Advanced Shooters, they often have trouble even learning how to shoot the semi-autos properly. A good portion of the time in his class you spent talking about tap rack Bang and how to clear a malfunction from my semi-auto. In every single class he has one or two people that have a firearm that schitts the bed or just won't operate well enough for them to get through the class. In that case he provides them with one of his own Glock 19's that he keeps for the class. His so called "advanced" pistol class involves running and gunning and shooting behind barriers and other crap that would be more akin to some Special Forces operator than the regular citizen trying to defend himself. I'm all for people being able to choose and shoot what they want, but I honestly feel that so much of the general population would be better served with a 6-shot revolver than a semi-auto pistol. The manual of arms of a revolver is just so much more simple for someone who is not a professional and has to kick down a door to arrest someone. I have both, and I carry both. Folks just can't seem to get over the issue of only having five or six shots before having to reload.
Any opinions on this?
Yeah, in 99% of gun fights civilians are likely to be involved in, six rounds would work fine, if they are well placed, and they are willing to put in the work to become competent with a double action revolver.
Also, if they want to go with an auto, I'd push them very hard in the direction of something like a Glock 19 or an S&W M&P9 Compact.
With revolvers, they'd have to master the DA trigger pull.
When I teach Basic Pistol courses everyone starts off with a DA revolver...and learns how to shoot it DA. In some of the classes 90% of the students shoot smaller groups DA than SA. Bob
With revolvers, they'd have to master the DA trigger pull.
When I teach Basic Pistol courses everyone starts off with a DA revolver...and learns how to shoot it DA. In some of the classes 90% of the students shoot smaller groups DA than SA. Bob
Great idea. Bob
That's how I learned when I was 19. My NRA instructor (retired Deputy Sheriff) brought a few S&W revolvers to the range, and that was all I shot, and only in double action. The course I took was one on one over like 20 hours of instruction. First was intro to handgun shooting, then Defensive Handgun. I really learned the double action trigger during that training. He had me shooting for most of the hour, and I came to the range and drilled what I learned between classes, too. Not to mention dry fire at home, balancing a quarter on top of my revolver while pulling the trigger.
You don't think reliable midsize semi-auto's such as a G19 address most of your rant? If not, why does you buddy hand them one when their Bersa's fail?
Also I can tell you didn't actually watch the video.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I have a friend who teaches concealed carry and a couple of other pistol training classes. I've stopped by a few of his classes to talk about holsters and carry gear and have had the chance to observe his students and what guns they are shooting. I would estimate that about 95% of his students bring semi-autos to the class, particularly the really small ones like the Ruger LCP, S&W Shield and equivalent type guns. Since many are beginning shooters, or at least not Advanced Shooters, they often have trouble even learning how to shoot the semi-autos properly. A good portion of the time in his class you spent talking about tap rack Bang and how to clear a malfunction from my semi-auto. In every single class he has one or two people that have a firearm that schitts the bed or just won't operate well enough for them to get through the class. In that case he provides them with one of his own Glock 19's that he keeps for the class. His so called "advanced" pistol class involves running and gunning and shooting behind barriers and other crap that would be more akin to some Special Forces operator than the regular citizen trying to defend himself. I'm all for people being able to choose and shoot what they want, but I honestly feel that so much of the general population would be better served with a 6-shot revolver than a semi-auto pistol. The manual of arms of a revolver is just so much more simple for someone who is not a professional and has to kick down a door to arrest someone. I have both, and I carry both. Folks just can't seem to get over the issue of only having five or six shots before having to reload.
Any opinions on this?
Yeah, in 99% of gun fights civilians are likely to be involved in, six rounds would work fine, if they are well placed, and they are willing to put in the work to become competent with a double action revolver.
Also, if they want to go with an auto, I'd push them very hard in the direction of something like a Glock 19 or an S&W M&P9 Compact.
If they are going to "put in the time to become competent", why not skip the technology from the 1800's, and put the time in on something more applicable to today.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 08/25/20.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I fail to see the si called "advantage" of revolvers infact I see the disadvantage. In my experience revolvers aren't easier to shoot or operate and they aren't more reliable. I'll take a semi auto over a revolver every time. The Sig P365 is small, easy to shoot well and has plenty of magazine capavity
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I fail to see the si called "advantage" of revolvers infact I see the disadvantage. In my experience revolvers aren't easier to shoot or operate and they aren't more reliable. I'll take a semi auto over a revolver every time. The Sig P365 is small, easy to shoot well and has plenty of magazine capavity
I don't understand it either.
Originally Posted by Geno67
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Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
