HE doesnt give some a chance to save themselve and give others no chance and a death sentence before birth.
No one has any chance to save themselves. If we did, Christ would have died for nothing according to Paul in his letter to the Galatians (chapter 2).
We aren’t “pretty sick” in trespasses and sins we’re DEAD (Eph 2). Try laying the cure for some disease next to a corpse, reassuring it that “the cure for your disease is right there; take it up and be healed!”
Extreme and untold gratitude must arrest the heart of those of us who have been awakened from death to newness of life! It’s an unfathomable miracle. And it’s done for us. Those who are not awakened get justice even as Christ has suffered God’s wrath for our sins. It’s a wonder that God has called any at all; if we were paid our just reward we’d all be doomed.
Amazing grace indeed!!!!!
Im thinking reaching out to God for HIS saving grace could maybe be interpreted as saving ones self, like reaching out and grabbing that root to the tree of life as one is drowning in the river of life.
It’s my understanding that you’re a believer in an inerrant scripture, correct?
If so, wrestle not with your thinking on your idea of predestination but with what ALL the Bible has to say.
I don’t say that at all in the spirit of anger or argumentation but simply as one bible believing brother to another.
So, if im predestined, why should i witness to those who are predestined to Hell? Why should i tithe? Why should i stand in Church and make a joyful noise? Why should i contribute to foreign missions?
I think you follow errant scripture.
For God so loved a few in the world....
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I realize, HE knew us in our mothers womb, and knew beforehand who would do what, but HE sentenced none to death and hell fire by HIS creation of them.
Also, I'm not going by scripture only HE fully understands. Im going by what HE told me a little while ago. You believe as you wish, for every Bible scholar who believes as they do, they, like you, can provide scripture to support their case.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
So, if im predestined, why should i witness to those who are predestined to Hell? Why should i tithe? Why should i stand in Church and make a joyful noise? Why should i contribute to foreign missions?
I think you follow errant scripture.
For God so loved a few in the world....
If you study church history you’ll find that those who have my understanding of this issue have been amongst the most active in doing the things that you lay forth above. The reason for that those are the means that God has appointed by which He effects His plan. He has granted the preaching of the Gospel, prayer, and faithful observance of the sacraments unimaginable power in enlightening the otherwise dark souls of countless people through the ages. It’s His appointment that gives us boldness to continue and to be faithful to those means which seem foolish to unregenerate men.
The caricature that human reason creates of predestination is not that which is understood by those who adhere to it. All your thoughts make sense if the question is viewed from a purely human standpoint, but there is a rich mystery in God’s ways which transcend those of men. Hence my encouragement that you study; I meant no offense.
God has loved a great many in the world and showed it by the grift of His Son in whom we find redemption. It is not a few but a great (and getting ever greater) multitude.
I have no use for church history. Christians have died by the thousands to bring me HIS message for me.
It says, knock, and the door will be opened. Seek and yee shall find. I believe those words of instruction HE gave to me in the Bible, which HE said is His word, which I accept as His message of instruction to me. HE gave that message of instruction to all, for all. None are cursed before their birth. That would not be justified.
He is just.
Last edited by jaguartx; 08/27/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Again I believe as you do; all who repent and turn in faith to Christ will receive salvation with full assurance of pardon.
Originally Posted by jaguartx
Also, I'm not going by scripture only HE fully understands. Im going by what HE told me a little while ago.
Yeah continuationism makes conversations about biblical interpretation pretty difficult.
I was seeking to explain what I believe not necessarily convince you that I’m right, although that’d be nice too.
I have no use for church history. Christians have died by the thousands to bring me HIS message for me.
It says, knock, and the door will be opened. Seek and yee shall find. I believe those words of instruction HE gave to me in the Bible, which HE said is His word, which I accept as His message of instruction to me. HE gave that message of instruction to all, for all. None are cursed before their birth. That would not be justified.
He is just.
Wait you have no use for Church history?
You do know that the fact that “Christians have died by the thousands to bring me HIS message for me” is Church history, right?
And just to be clear... justice would send us all to hell. Jesus Christ came and bore our sins on Himself after He lived a sinless life. That’s not justice, thank God! That’s grace!!!!!
Just tell me, if I or others are predestined, why should i need to testify?
Because God uses our telling of the hope that is in us to bring people to faith. Preaching of the word is a means by which He effects salvation. He said so in His word.
Predestination is a holy mystery man. It isn’t like I wear it as a badge or “get out of jail free card”. It doesn’t mean that someone can go through life and sin like crazy never bending the knee in faith to Christ because it’s pre-appointed. It’s just the recognition that man’s heart is darkened by sin and what we see experientially as us making a decision is actually the logical conclusion of a gracious God calling us to Himself.
It isn’t rational; that’s why one can’t come to it by reasoning alone but only through a study of the Scriptures.
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."Aug 25, 2017
HE made it so anyone who chooses can be saved. HE does not lie. Do this and you will live forever. If it were not so, HE would not have said so.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
BTW, its so easy even a child can understand, yet you depend on a plethora of church history?
Where did I rely on “a plethora of church history”?
All I said that was that if you’re familiar with Church history (in this country that’s American history) you’d see that the Presbyterians have been faithful in doing the things you asked why one should do.
That’s all. If that’s a plethora I am misinformed as to the meaning of plethora.
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."Aug 25, 2017
HE made it so anyone who chooses can be saved. HE does not lie. Do this and you will live forever. If it were not so, HE would not have said so.
Just tell me, if I or others are predestined, why should i need to testify?
Because God uses our telling of the hope that is in us to bring people to faith.
There is no reason to bring people to faith, if they are predestined to die. If they are predestined to live, our words have no effect and are worthless.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
When I have a question about a doctrine, I like to define the terms first. I think that I recognized Acts 2:38. The word "repent" came up along with believe. Believe is mentioned in the book I'm reading right now, John. It's used andtranslated "faith" in other parts of the Bible. Ie. John 3:16 whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Epesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved by faith.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. ... For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
You can believe. I did it. You can too. Just ask HIM into your heart. Pray and ask HIM to make you believe. Ask HIM to help you with your disbelief. Ask HIM to make you love HIM.
HE will enter in. He made you in HIS image. HE loves you. HE weeps for you, as you would a lost child. HE wants you with Him.
You arent predestined to Hell. He sent His only begotten son, JESUS CHRIST for all, including you, to shed HIS blood to purify YOU. Ask HIM into your heart to save you and see. If HE doesnt answer, then chalk it up to predestiny.
Last edited by jaguartx; 08/27/20.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
