Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire "All things work together for Good".

It's so simple, ask Him.

Antlers, with all due respect, to say "so what" about the conclusions of Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Jonathan Edwards, is a reckless statement. Predestination could very well be the only deep theological debate that they all agree on. To not take seriously the one issue they all agree upon is dangerous. Also, if you completely read through all of Paul's epistles with the sole purpose of determining how he would answer the question, I guarantee the only conclusion that you will come to is that Paul is teaching predestination.

Heaven and hell issue - it can quickly become one if Man believes he is responsible in any way for his salvation.

Please take the time to listen to RC link posted above.

Just = we are all sentenced to hell for our sin.

Grace = Some were predestined for salvation.

If you don't believe God is capable of choosing some and not others then you haven't read the Bible.

Man is incapable of seeking God without first God breathing life in them. Therefore to all who knock the door will be open, but you will never knock unless drawn by God.

I got no problem with whatever you choose to believe. I’m cool with it.
To me, ‘accepting’ and “responsible” are two completely different things. To me, ‘accepting’ isn’t ‘earning’.

Thats how I read it.

I woke up this morning with a toothache and an ingrown toenail. I ain't complaining, but you'll need to ask me later what I think about this verse.

And following the theology of Calvin, eternal damnation is predestined for others, before they were even born. To me, there’s ‘nothing’ morally right about that. To me, “capable” doesn’t mean ‘He does.’

Antlers,

I hear you brother. Its a tough subject. There is plenty of scripture than can be described as harsh and "nothing morally right about it". I listened to an atheist describe his quest to understand the Bible. He decided to hand write it in order to not miss a word. Afterwards he was even more entrenched in his atheism. His response was there is no way he could worship a God as cruel as the one described in the Bible. Though this guy is not a believer, he did understand that aspect of the Bible more than 99% of "Christians". I'm not insinuating God is cruel, but that justice and wrath can be easily mistaken.

Many doctrinal idiots have weighed in here with their considered expert opinions as to what scripture says. You have only proven that a wordsmith can make scripture mean anything he wants. The greatest thing you could ever learn from scripture,is not some secret God revealed in a book of his exact infallible words,but the fact that he can work with any idiot willing to give it a go.

‘Somebody’ needs some carbs.

Paul, again. The overbearing deluded usurper and obviously a Roman agent. He corrupted Jesus' teaching so much it is hard to know where to start. Did Jesus teach predestination? Explicitly?

Hey guys,

This topic was hot back in the 80s when I exposed myself to weekly teachings from a Calvinist.
It was confusing trying to reconcile T.U.L.I.P. with the gospel of salvation from hell.

I realized a couple of basic things that had to be fully grasped. After that all the same issues became clear as a cloudless day.

The only thing that has ever become clear to me,is that no one has ever changed their mind in these so called discussions. All anyone wants is to give their opinion and whoever is the loudest usually considers himself the winner.

The entire Bible is the word of God.

My mind was changed through reading and study of the Word. You can't pick a verse here and there. Read through the Bible with the sole purpose of answering this question. The answer will become clear. The Bible is what changes mind.

I'm just checking in for a minute.
Later, if anyone wants a very clear and concise answer from the Word of God, you will receive it.
I will not convince some. That is understandable.
I just got done studying the end of chapter 6 in John.
Jesus Himself explained something very clearly and even many of His own disciples were offended and left Him. I will not debate. The Bible speaks for itself.
I simply want to share a blessing to anyone who wants one.

Pray for discernment and understanding until later.

Blessings

Even if some of it was written by someone who never knew Jesus (Yeshua) and refuted Jesus teachings? There is a Paul in every organization.

Yes sir, the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God.

Well said.

When I find myself baffled as to how God’s word seems to contradict itself I have to assume it’s my problem not His.

Creator/creature stuff and all.

There is so much to learn from seeking to get a view of the thrust of scripture from 40k feet vs dissecting it verse by verse.

You are the only one in this thread championing that idea. You introduced the straw man and then defend him without addressing scripture which deals with the issue. Not an intellectually honest way to approach scripture, ignoring, denying or avoiding the things that are difficult to understand.