I have my now food. Then I have about 25 canning jars of homemade stew and chili in the freezer. And there's a month of Mountain House dehydrated camping food in the garage. After that, there's the 30 pounds of lard on my body...
Just 30 pounds?
Amateur.....
Okay, maybe kilos lol.
Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
A herd of thirty to sixty million could hardly be killed out by human predation even with modern rifles considering the harvest could hardly have been more than a million a year. And that is a generous estimate on the kill. Need to look for another cause. There are plenty of accounts of dead bison covering the landscape. Indians died of introduced European disease. Bison overpopulated. Domestic cattle were introduced and driven into bison territory. Most likely cause was something like Texas tick fever or anthrax. Hunters couldn't have very well killed more than the natural reproduction.
Your numbers are wrong. By the time the market hunting started the numbers had already dwindled to much less 30-60 million which are just estimates anyway.
Those figures are estimates that include the tall grass prairies as well as the short grass. The tall grass herds were gone long before the railroad ever pushed into the short grass prairies.
Know one knows the real numbers.Woodland herds were the first to go in places like Kentucky circa 1700s, Next were the tall grass herds in the early 1800s. Next the Southern short grass herds. Then the northern short grass herds were the last to go.
Hunters can easily kill more than natural production. There was natural predation going on at the same time. The herds were already in balance. Indians, wolves, bears and natural causes were also taking animals. The market hunting was on top of that, The government intentionally killed the herds to starve the wild Indians.
The disease scenario does not hold water because the big herds were not around cattle. The cattle did not come into the short grass until the Indians were passified and the herds were gone.
Bison don’t calve enough to replace human predation
I dare say that thirty million (low estimate) would calve five to seven million (another low estimate) per year. Reckon humans were killing that many?
Again your numbers are wrong. The short grass herds were already greatly diminished. There were not 30 million buffalo by the time market hunting started.
Also, natural losses continued while the human hunting was in process. The hunters themselves document the herds dwindling while they hunted and there were no cattle in the field at that time.
2000 hunters killing 500 animals each is 1 million animals.
The killing occurred over a decade and half or so. Very often it was just tongues that were taken. The 4 - 8 million in the northern short grass herd could easily have been killed by a few thousand market hunters.
A couple things don’t quite sound correct. Cattle and oxen pulling wagons west were some of the first critters to hit the west with man. If you ever raised critters you should know how fast an untreated illness can kill just about every critter swiftly. Usually only the ohthe poor Indian types fall for the white an killing all the buffalo. According to the lead and powder shipments out west there is no way they could have been shot out. Also if numbers are guesses then maybe there was 120 million. Edk
Again your numbers are wrong. The short grass herds were already greatly diminished. There were not 30 million buffalo by the time market hunting started.
Well now you argue against yourself. What diminished the herds prior to market hunting? How did white hunters, few in number kill all the bison? Why were dead bison reported laying dead scattered around like pumpkins on the plains? Try Google. You give white hunters too much credit. All they did was deliver the coup de grace.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
A couple things don’t quite sound correct. Cattle and oxen pulling wagons west were some of the first critters to hit the west with man. If you ever raised critters you should know how fast an untreated illness can kill just about every critter swiftly. Usually only the ohthe poor Indian types fall for the white man killing all the buffalo. According to the lead and powder shipments out west there is no way they could have been shot out.Also if numbers are guesses then maybe there was 120 million. Edk
You are right. Disease can spread very quickly and travel long distances. Especially with millions of vulnerable animals in contact with one another.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I tried dog my 1st time in Korea. Drunk as heck ate about half skewer of it. Probably 3 bites..... Char cooked over wood coals . Had like a red colored spicy sweet sauce on it. Dog taste like a wet dog smells......
Still regret it to this day......
I thought partridge Tastes like a wet dog smells...
A couple things don’t quite sound correct. Cattle and oxen pulling wagons west were some of the first critters to hit the west with man. If you ever raised critters you should know how fast an untreated illness can kill just about every critter swiftly. Usually only the ohthe poor Indian types fall for the white an killing all the buffalo. According to the lead and powder shipments out west there is no way they could have been shot out. Also if numbers are guesses then maybe there was 120 million. Edk
Can I see the powder shipment records please?
Maybe there were 500 million and maybe they lost the paperwork for the powder shipments. Maybe ...
I tried dog my 1st time in Korea. Drunk as heck ate about half skewer of it. Probably 3 bites..... Char cooked over wood coals . Had like a red colored spicy sweet sauce on it. Dog taste like a wet dog smells......
Still regret it to this day......
I thought partridge Tastes like a wet dog smells...
But boy R D is ok...
You’re confusing me
You are correct, I made a post a month or so back and a yr or 2 back about saying that partridge does also. Hungry as heck as a teenager out partridge hunting and I decided to eat one out hunting
Plain breast shoved on a green stick cooked over an open fire.
Also made a post several yrs back about eating dog in korea and the ROK Tiger brigade azzholes....
It's not uncommon for posters on here to relate stories/ experiences over again over time.
Many of us enjoy sharing them with others on here.
What is R D ? roasted dog???? If so.. No.... It's not "OK" thought I layed that out in what I typed. Dont see how you "are confused" really.
It's amazing how some little known posters remember stuff about other posters at times. Simply amazing........ And how some pop outta the woodwork and do so alot of times is entertaining/ revealing. Even more flair when the poster adopts aspects of the persons posting stlye in their post, like my extra drawn out periods. It adds mystery to things, which is nice...... LOL!!!
I need to get one of those dragon voice programs for a desktop and " write" a book. Call it " My Life as a Rockstar who never made it to the Stage".
Again your numbers are wrong. The short grass herds were already greatly diminished. There were not 30 million buffalo by the time market hunting started.
Well now you argue against yourself. What diminished the herds prior to market hunting?
Hunting. The slaughter started in Kentucky in 1770s pretty much.
Quote
How did white hunters, few in number kill all the bison?
White hunters compounded losses on top of normal losses.
Quote
Why were dead bison reported laying dead scattered around like pumpkins on the plains? Try Google. You give white hunters too much credit. All they did was deliver the coup de grace.
Because long range rifles made them easy to kill and the herd did not run. As I said 2000X500=1000000. The number add up very easily.
The army wanted them dead because they needed to starve the Indians and to clear the plains of bison so settlement could occur. We all know that wild bison CANNOT exist in settled areas. They had to go wherever farms exist. Humans always overkill when abundance exists. Always.
What historical evidence is there that disease killed the bison herds en mass?
Why aren't all the bison herds in America gone today?
Why did every single bison every where get killed except a couple very remote herds in the north. All herds in the east and south were killed.
Why were the killing fields in the same location hunters were and not off in the wilderness?
Why didn't Indians see remote bison herds dieing en mass far from the whites in the north short grass prairies?
To be honest I don't care what people believe about the bison. It matters not. I want to believe truth and the best evidence supports human rifles as the ultimate demise of the herds. Human rifles slaughtered all the cervid herds out west too.
I'm not antihunting. I love and support hunting. I'm just not going to lie to myself.
Again your numbers are wrong. The short grass herds were already greatly diminished. There were not 30 million buffalo by the time market hunting started.
Well now you argue against yourself. What diminished the herds prior to market hunting?
Hunting. The slaughter started in Kentucky in 1770s pretty much.
Quote
How did white hunters, few in number kill all the bison?
White hunters compounded losses on top of normal losses.
Quote
Why were dead bison reported laying dead scattered around like pumpkins on the plains? Try Google. You give white hunters too much credit. All they did was deliver the coup de grace.
Because long range rifles made them easy to kill and the herd did not run. As I said 2000X500=1000000. The number add up very easily.
The army wanted them dead because they needed to starve the Indians and to clear the plains of bison so settlement could occur. We all know that wild bison CANNOT exist in settled areas. They had to go wherever farms exist. Humans always overkill when abundance exists. Always.
You mentioned the army wanting the bison dead. That reminds me of reading about Kit Carson. He lived for a time with the Apache, I think. This took place in the southwest. Carson became a scout for the army later on and it was his job to lead the army to the Indians. They always seemed to stay just out of reach. The Apache had planted fruit trees in various places and relied on them when they were on the run. Carson knew that and the army cut them down. They eliminated that part of a food source. In my mind Carson betrayed the Apache.
To be honest I don't care what people believe about the bison. It matters not. I want to believe truth and the best evidence supports human rifles as the ultimate demise of the herds. Human rifles slaughtered all the cervid herds out west
I'll will agree that human's rifles finished off what was left. But just like the European introduced human diseases raced ahead of the white people and killed Indians in huge numbers the cattle diseases got out there and worked over the bison. There is no other rational explanation. Texas tick fever just like anaplasmosis can take down a fat healthy bovine in short order. No way would taking even 3 million a year out of a healthy herd have exterminated the plains bison. You are an intelligent man. All it takes is a little arithmetic. So I am going to agree with you that yes hunters did finish off the bison herds. That would be the bison that had survived through some sort of natural immunity. African herds had some remnant that survived the great rinderpest plague and some humans had immunity to Black Death. So I would say had the surviving bison been left on the plains without being hunted they would have restored they would have restored their former numbers with naturally immune individuals.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
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