Thing about Mals is they are "soft" dogs. Labs are "hard" dogs. You can kick a lab around all you want and it'll still love you and obey. Your a real dick if you do but, it'l work. Mals are sensitive and will suffer. The best results come through games and play. Coercives have a place but, arenot the primary motivator. They are superstitous too. You can ruin one with a bad interaction.
This is the way it is with Chessies as well. That's one reason labs are so popular with the hunt test/field trial crowd. As with a Chessie, you have to work WITH the dog. These two breeds are not pack-oriented. They're independent thinkers. The first rule of dog training is, "You need to be smarter than the dog." Thus, a lot of people can train labs and GSD's...not so many Mals or Chessies.
Actually, Labradors are much higher on the intelligence scale than both Malanois and Chesapeakes. In the four years I've had my Lab (with me pretty much 24/7) he has picked up so much language that I think he could speak simple sentences if he had the proper vocalization tools.
I've never made any attempt to teach him any words. He just picks up on them,..and very quickly if it's something that he's particularly interested in. He's also very tuned into body language.
He's a full member of our pack and he knows what the pack is doing or getting ready to do at all times.
I don't put much stock in these "dog intelligence scales." As far as picking up vocabulary, most dogs can pick up about 20 words used with them regularly. Hell, my wife's little papillons know what we're talking about all the time. We've gotten to spelling some words around them and they've figured out a few of those. I swear, also, they try their damnedest to try to speak. That's got nothing to do, however, with how well a working dog can do a job with a minimal level of direction. That's where the malinois and the chesapeake have got it all over pack-oriented breeds like labs. My son was assigned a malinois for a while and, while I never saw that dog, I did participate in some training exercises with him and some of his coworkers, one of whom had a malinois. The dog had obvious critical thinking skills. Another area where superior critical thinking skills in a breed really show up is in doing blind retrieves. Labs do well in hunt test blinds where they can be whistled and signaled in by the handler (who knows where the bird is.) In a real hunting situation, where a bird has gone down in heavy cover and once you send the dog you can't see him, much less give him any direction, my chessie will eventually come out with the bird. The dog knows enough to run a pattern and will keep at it until he finds it. That's not something you can train into the dog, they've either got it or they haven't. In my experience, labs don't tend to have it.
Labs find it, point it, retrieve it.
That's a nice little video, but I didn't see anything like a difficult blind retrieve. The dog was able to mark a real close, easy fall in pretty open country. Hell, my brother's golden retriever could handle that.
Some people think general dog intelligence tests matter. Some people think IQ and SAT tests are racist too.
Progressives are the most open minded, tolerant, and inclusive people on the planet, as long as you agree with everything they say, and do exactly as you're told.
My first dog at this house was a little 8lb rat terrier, used to get into it with two big dogs at their fence down the street. Everybody would run up and down growling and barking, my dog would pee on their fence, thought he was kicking their a$$es.
One morning same thing, then both dogs suddenly stopped, looked at him and then disappeared in back of the house.
A moment later both dogs come running down the block, their owner had left the backyard gate open. My dog runs out confidently to meet ‘em, I’m running after him going NOOOO!
They start to mix it up, they see me running, they run off one of them carrying little Sparky in his mouth, drops him a couple of bounds later. Sparky had a look of shocked disbelief, forgot all about it the next day, business as usual, the dogs never got loose again.
The point is those two dogs thought for a moment, remembered the back gate was open, and put two and two together.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
I will only go so far as to say dog breeds do display varying levels of intelligence in that some are much easier to train than other breeds are. But even the most intelligent dog has little ability to problem solve. Maybe akin to a 1 year old child.
Horses are much the same way. Some strains and some breeds have proven to me to be much easier to train. Some strains are also much more friendly to humans than others, which also aids in their training and makes the breaking process much easier.
Some horses will convince you they can problem solve. As in a quarter horse which used to push the cows through a fence and knock it down so he could get out.
Or many horses which use their teeth to untie a knot in their tie rope so they can escape. Or others which operate a gate latch and escape their paddock.
I used to stake our small herd of horses out on a long rope in an aspen thicket to clean up the grass. A few of them learned how to unwind their rope from trees after getting wound up. Others just stand there and wait for someone to come help.
Problem solving? Perhaps. But I always just figured they accidentally stumbled upon the proper method and remembered.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
My first dog at this house was a little 8lb rat terrier, used to get into it with two big dogs at their fence down the street. Everybody would run up and down growling and barking, my dog would pee on their fence, thought he was kicking their a$$es.
One morning same thing, then both dogs suddenly stopped, looked at him and then disappeared in back of the house.
A moment later both dogs come running down the block, their owner had left the backyard gate open. My dog runs out confidently to meet ‘em, I’m running after him going NOOOO!
They start to mix it up, they see me running, they run off one of them carrying little Sparky in his mouth, drops him a couple of bounds later. Sparky had a look of shocked disbelief, forgot all about it the next day, business as usual, the dogs never got loose again.
The point is those two dogs thought for a moment, remembered the back gate was open, and put two and two together.
Birdfugker,
You've never owned a dog in your life!
LOL
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I will only go so far as to say dog breeds do display varying levels of intelligence in that some are much easier to train than other breeds are. But even the most intelligent dog has little ability to problem solve. Maybe akin to a 1 year old child.
Horses are much the same way. Some strains and some breeds have proven to me to be much easier to train. Some strains are also much more friendly to humans than others, which also aids in their training and makes the breaking process much easier.
Some horses will convince you they can problem solve. As in a quarter horse which used to push the cows through a fence and knock it down so he could get out.
Or many horses which use their teeth to untie a knot in their tie rope so they can escape. Or others which operate a gate latch and escape their paddock.
I used to stake our small herd of horses out on a long rope in an aspen thicket to clean up the grass. A few of them learned how to unwind their rope from trees after getting wound up. Others just stand there and wait for someone to come help.
Problem solving? Perhaps. But I always just figured they accidentally stumbled upon the proper method and remembered.
I know fugk all about horses and I hope to keep it that way. I hate every GD one of them.
Your thoughts on dogs are laughable.
There is no "intelligent" dog.
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
Anyhoo here's our three dogs at the time, hadda be about 2004, seen here in "down - stay" mode. That would be Sparky on the left. Pepper in the middle was running with a pack of rat terriers on a ranch until she was 15 weeks, too late, she alway knew she was a dog and not a human. Got out of the yard one night, never saw her again.
Tarn on the end is the dog in my avatar, best dog I ever had, seen here about a year old. One of them dogs just eerily smart, even did hand signals. She was a generic ranch mutt, I always figured heeler/sheepdog but given her color and physical proportions, coulda been kelpie/sheepdog. Found her in a filthy pen at a feed store south of town, $15, maybe 10 weeks old, hard bellied with worms. I bought her because with all of that she was still looking out at the world with the same good natured, interested expression seen in this photo. I weren't wrong.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
We have had a few dogs, but since we got Dillon, I don't think there will be anything but Boxers here. He is asleep under the covers with my wife at the moment, let there be a noise or a knock, and he will be on it.
I don't know if he would bite, hope to never know. I do know there have been a couple people here he didn't like. Bristled up when he first saw them, stayed between them and my family.
I also know he doesn't like roughouse playing unless it's him and I. Wife and I get to carrying on, he gets wound up and will grab me. Can't call it a bite, he just gets a hold of me.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I bought a female when she was 5 weeks old. I won't bore you with tales of her but just mention a few things I think might be relevant for anyone thinking of getting a Belgian Malinois.
The first time I saw her she looked me square in the eye and just stared.
She is a natural tracker and has done so effortlessly since day one at 5 weeks.
Biting came natural to her and was usually her first solution to a problem but with lots of work she is friendly with most everyone.
She is neither a guard dog or even a good watch dog, mostly due to her lack of training in those areas.
She can be very stubborn and insistent and can outlast most people in a battle of wills.
She is not a good fighter.
She has a dog door and has always been able to come and go as she pleases over a couple square miles of mostly timber and old overgrown agricultural fields. We spend most of every day together even going to town so she isn't frustrated but still managed to do wrong when she was younger, here are a couple examples.
At about 3 months old she got up in the middle of the night and tore the entire end out of my leather couch. This happened after several weeks of me stopping her from chewing on it during the day. Subsequently she showed little interest in it
In the following couple of months she broke the back side window out of my truck twice. The first time was because she wanted to go into the local grocery where I was shopping. The second was Wal-Mart. Both times she succesfully entered the stores and found me. Once she had entered those stores she was content to wait outside in the truck.
For a while she spent her day stealing eggs and eating them. She could tell when a hen was going to lay before the even headed for the nest and would wait outside the nest while they were laying and would bark at them if they took too long.
She tore the metal corner protectors off my house and destroyed them.
She also has a strong herding drive and leapt out the truck window at about 20 MPH to chase some cattle even though she has plenty of livestock around the house.
We have had a few dogs, but since we got Dillon, I don't think there will be anything but Boxers here. He is asleep under the covers with my wife at the moment, let there be a noise or a knock, and he will be on it.
I don't know if he would bite, hope to never know. I do know there have been a couple people here he didn't like. Bristled up when he first saw them, stayed between them and my family.
I also know he doesn't like roughouse playing unless it's him and I. Wife and I get to carrying on, he gets wound up and will grab me. Can't call it a bite, he just gets a hold of me.
A friend had a big male Boxer,....very intense dog,..never took his eyes off of anyone visiting and didn't like any of them. If you made a sudden move around him he would alert. I made the mistake of stomping my foot while I was in the middle of describing something while he was nearby. It's a good thing I had on a pair of leather boots. He lurched at me and grabbed my foot in his mouth very tightly.
My friend had to go pick up his mail at the post office for a long time because the Boxer broke the front window out of the house and went after the mailman.
About 35 years ago I had my one and only run-in with a BM. There was a cook-out at my buddy's house and some guy brought his BM to the picnic. There was a lake in the backyard, and I went down to investigate. When I started back up the hill to the house, the BM decided that I should not come back to the party and did his herding thing on me.
I was about 225. The dog was well over 100. He never showed a bit of aggression, but he was going to make sure I didn't get back up that hill. I assumed the role of a very intelligent sheep. There was nothing I could do to make any real advance up the hill, and over the next couple of minutes, that dog got me backed down the hill and heading towards the water. It was like playing football with a 4-legged Tackle.
Finally, the owner woke up to what was going on and called the dog off. We all had fun. It was no big thing, but I was mightily impressed with that dog's intelligence. When the dog broke it off, there was a brief look he gave me that said, "I'd have had you in the water, and you know that."
What a dumb idea, prolly get the worst traits of both and just end up as another abandoned mongrel
Yep. So dumb that military and LE do it regularly, . Stupid [bleep]
It is dumb and it's disrespectful to both breeds. They use rescues. No one with either a brain or a soul would do it. Go buy a frighin labradoodle to turn your wirthless cross crank.
How in the fug is it possible to "disrespect" an animal?
Is it also disrespectful to cross angus with hereford cattle? Quarter horses with morgans? Hampshire with yorkshire hogs?
In each case the crossbred animals are more vigorous, healthier, and better performers than their progenitors/
Every breed of dog in existence came about from a combination of crosses and line breeding. One can often create a dog superior in regards to a specific need through a cross. That does nothing to dilute the genetics of the registered parental strains.
You conflate not understanding with truth. Maybe an analogy of putting a ford engine in a chevy would help? I'm not sure. There's no reason to do it and all it does is muddy up bloodlines. The Mal has a lot more to offer the GSD. To put the GSD into a Mal is an afront to it. Their strength has been their diversity. The lack therof is the downfall of the GSD.
I will only go so far as to say dog breeds do display varying levels of intelligence in that some are much easier to train than other breeds are. But even the most intelligent dog has little ability to problem solve. Maybe akin to a 1 year old child.
Horses are much the same way. Some strains and some breeds have proven to me to be much easier to train. Some strains are also much more friendly to humans than others, which also aids in their training and makes the breaking process much easier.
Some horses will convince you they can problem solve. As in a quarter horse which used to push the cows through a fence and knock it down so he could get out.
Or many horses which use their teeth to untie a knot in their tie rope so they can escape. Or others which operate a gate latch and escape their paddock.
I used to stake our small herd of horses out on a long rope in an aspen thicket to clean up the grass. A few of them learned how to unwind their rope from trees after getting wound up. Others just stand there and wait for someone to come help.
Problem solving? Perhaps. But I always just figured they accidentally stumbled upon the proper method and remembered.
They do have varying degrees of intelligence but, that's not the end of the story. Drive figures into the equation too. Mals' are like A- intelligence.but, it's their drive to work that makes them preternatural learners. Labs are very intelligent too. It's their tolerance of stone-age training techniques that d-bags like dick flavor are likely to inflict on them.
Thing about Mals is they are "soft" dogs. Labs are "hard" dogs. You can kick a lab around all you want and it'll still love you and obey. Your a real dick if you do but, it'l work. Mals are sensitive and will suffer. The best results come through games and play. Coercives have a place but, arenot the primary motivator. They are superstitous too. You can ruin one with a bad interaction.
^^^This person has no fugking clue what he's talking about.^^^^
You're a loudmouth moron that's reliable to opine on just about everything. That's a reliable indicator of knowing very little about all things and a deep level of insecurity about it. Look into Dunning-Krueger and sit with that one a little. Burn your copy of Water Dog and make nice with the women trainers "ruining" your sport. 1950 called and it wants it's training back. I feel sorry for your animal. I pick up the pieces that are left after schmucks like you have a go at dogs they have no business owning. I first owned a Mal by accident. Rather than thinking, I knew everything about them having been around water dogs my whole life I pressed into knowledge with some humility. I learned many things that if I was a cocky p_ick I'd have never figured out. See, I know that I will never be the people I've learned from but, I sure can follow the VISIBLE RESULTS they demonstrate. The last place I'd go for anything would be "some dude" that comments on every single damn topic that gets posted. That's got to be evidence of some significant personality disorder. Now, you'll respond with a bunch of drivel about you did this or that and I'm garbage blah blah. No curiosity, no humility, only telling.
Malanois- nothing compares for their desire to learn and please as well as their athleticism is almost supernatural. My best friend (who has a ton of dog experience with multiple breeds) has one and says it’s the best dog he has ever had, by far. If you want to talk to him and get feedback from an actual owner, hit him up on Facebook messenger (Dan Ambrosius), a national championship slingshot shooter as well.
Is there anyone on the campfire has/had malinios that is willing to give me real information?
I think I can help with that....
DON'T get a Malinois.
They are not for the casual dog owner, or even the advanced one. They need to have a real job..not just protecting the house...they NEED to be doing something. If they aren't doing something, they will make you sorry you ever thought of the idea.
Yes, they are like a GSD on crack.They are a huge liability outside the working world.
I love Mals..I love working with Mals...I would hate to have to live with one....
For those of you who may not know, Ingwe is not only a dog trainer, but he teaches dog trainers professionally.
He is being modest about posting his qualifications but fer Christ sake's just do what he says.
![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50531242587_f9c0a22232_z.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/q77B61Fq/IMG-6760.png)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/pdgNVkbg/Full-Size-Render-1.jpg)
