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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by elkmen1
Teal----so much depends upon terrain,, cover, time of day, etc. What's acceptable with snow on the ground, can cost you an animal, when it's dry. I have hunted in places where if an animal runs a 100 yards, it may be lost. Other times that's no big deal. I want them on the ground where I can see them as soon as possible. I can well afford to lose 10 lbs of meat, when the loss of a whole elk is at steak. I have lost very few, and those were lost in steep, ugly, dry ground.



I think that's where I'm at in this discussion.

Shoot an elk with a 7-08 and 140 NAB (seems to be a reasonable elk choice) and it goes 45 yards and keels over.
Shoot an elk with a 338 and it goes 15 yards and keels over.

One "killed better" I guess if that yard stick is how far they went after taking the shot but I don't know of my reasonable 45 yards would be considered reasonable for someone else - even in the same exact terrain where the elk ended up dead.

Broad generalizations probably do none of us any good and like anything - stating "X is best" without context which can and does change rapidly - likely is a fool's errand.

Generally if you are hunting elk on public land in the high country you want them down ASAP. For several reasons. One they can go into places that are miserable to field dress and pack them out of and two with other hunters around you run the real risk of someone tagging the elk you shot. Nothing makes guys go full retard like elk.
Conversely on a private land hunt you could kill them with a 22-250 all day long in many cases.

Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by elkmen1
Teal----so much depends upon terrain,, cover, time of day, etc. What's acceptable with snow on the ground, can cost you an animal, when it's dry. I have hunted in places where if an animal runs a 100 yards, it may be lost. Other times that's no big deal. I want them on the ground where I can see them as soon as possible. I can well afford to lose 10 lbs of meat, when the loss of a whole elk is at steak. I have lost very few, and those were lost in steep, ugly, dry ground.



I think that's where I'm at in this discussion.

Shoot an elk with a 7-08 and 140 NAB (seems to be a reasonable elk choice) and it goes 45 yards and keels over.
Shoot an elk with a 338 and it goes 15 yards and keels over.

One "killed better" I guess if that yard stick is how far they went after taking the shot but I don't know of my reasonable 45 yards would be considered reasonable for someone else - even in the same exact terrain where the elk ended up dead.

Broad generalizations probably do none of us any good and like anything - stating "X is best" without context which can and does change rapidly - likely is a fool's errand.

Generally if you are hunting elk on public land in the high country you want them down ASAP. For several reasons. One they can go into places that are miserable to field dress and pack them out of and two with other hunters around you run the real risk of someone tagging the elk you shot. Nothing makes guys go full retard like elk.
Conversely on a private land hunt you could kill them with a 22-250 all day long in many cases.


Some good info above by those who obviously btdt.

Here's a couple shots of a well known public land elk unit in CO on the west slope. It has the potential for a chance at a trophy class bull. Some of the late hunts offered for this unit take well over 20yrs to draw. The snow melted and it's late season. If you shoot a bull along this canyon it's about 200-30yds in some spots, not bad. But I was told by several who killed elk here if your bull makes it over the edge there's a good chance you won't recover it. Would you choose a 243 with NPs for this hunt? I sure didn't.
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

It's easy for some on here to brag in a chest thumping manner about how they used this or that so their opinion trumps all. But their experience might be limited to their local home turf where the elk were killed in less rugged country and/or private land with the benefit of snow.

Just saying the quicker you put a bull down the better if hunting rough country, and save the 243 with good bullets for the easy elk hunts. If you can't shoot a magnum proficiently then man up and admit it, then choose a good 270 or 3006 and learn to shoot it.









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The best cartridge for elk is the one you have while elk hunting. That said I’m a fan of 30 caliber cartridges, in my case a bunch of elk have been taken with them. My Wife still uses the 243 Her Dad gave her when She was 14 but she only takes “perfect” shots.

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Originally Posted by bigwhoop
The fact that this thread has gone on for 40+ pages indicates that average calibers have made a significant inroad into the magnum debate.
The elk hunting articles of the last 40-50 years spoke to the necessity of larger calibers. But midwestern and eastern deer hunters found success with 308's, 270's and 30-06's. How could that be? The need to put a reasonably well constructed bullet in the heart/lungs convinced many that elk were just large deer. Despite using premium bullets, placement was paramount and the ultimate game changer. The other factor was to enjoy the cat and mouse game and not to shoot farther then your confidence level.


I dont know the mental gymnastics one has to go through to suggest that because one thinks a magnum may be a better mouse trap that they also believe a non magnum won't work. They in fact will work, just not as well and we are talking about what's best here, not what is adequate.
Former board members like Allen Day and BobinNH would tell you flat out that magnums crumpled elk better than standards and both had plenty of experience.

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Originally Posted by MtnHtr

Here's a couple shots of a well known public land elk unit in CO on the west slope. It has the potential for a chance at a trophy class bull. Some of the late hunts offered for this unit take well over 20yrs to draw. The snow melted and it's late season. If you shoot a bull along this canyon it's about 200-30yds in some spots, not bad. But I was told by several who killed elk here if your bull makes it over the edge there's a good chance you won't recover it. Would you choose a 243 with NPs for this hunt? I sure didn't.


It's just a personal choice of mine, but I feel the same way.

Same kind of terrain in central Colorado.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Pictured below is all part of my land in central Colorado.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

That rock is about 600 yds away, and I have a cabin about 150 yards on the other side of it. Some mornings, I walk out onto the rock and spot elk (and/or mule deer) calmly grazing about where I took the pic, and they don’t notice me. Hoping to draw for that unit this year.

Don’t need a light rifle for that one, but might want some long-range knock-down power. For me, that’s my .340. For others, I’m sure what they have could work too. That’s just my preference. All of my neighbors are friendly except for one, who is just a bit weird. I’d rather not have to try to recover a fleeing elk on his property.

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From the top of that rock. Some nice mule deer just calmly bedding down below.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I hope they do that when I have a tag.

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Wise choice..


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Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by bigwhoop
The fact that this thread has gone on for 40+ pages indicates that average calibers have made a significant inroad into the magnum debate.
The elk hunting articles of the last 40-50 years spoke to the necessity of larger calibers. But midwestern and eastern deer hunters found success with 308's, 270's and 30-06's. How could that be? The need to put a reasonably well constructed bullet in the heart/lungs convinced many that elk were just large deer. Despite using premium bullets, placement was paramount and the ultimate game changer. The other factor was to enjoy the cat and mouse game and not to shoot farther then your confidence level.


I dont know the mental gymnastics one has to go through to suggest that because one thinks a magnum may be a better mouse trap that they also believe a non magnum won't work. They in fact will work, just not as well and we are talking about what's best here, not what is adequate.
Former board members like Allen Day and BobinNH would tell you flat out that magnums crumpled elk better than standards and both had plenty of experience.



A magnum only stretches out the killing distance by a small amount. I've killed elk with many different cartridges including 300wsm, 30-06, 9.3x62mm, 338wm and 300wm. I don't think anything ever killed any better than the good ol 06 spitting 200gr partitions. Most of my elk have been shot at close range and have only taken one step after being hit. The ones that ran the furthest, are the ones shot with the biggest heaviest pill I've used: the 286gr nosler partition in the 9.3x62mm. I actually shot 2 elk with that rifle and both ran further than any other elk I've shot. The 30-06 loaded with 200's and the 338wm have been my favorite elk cartridges. Most cartridges will work just fine, if you put the right bullet in the boiler room. Or lets just say, most cartridges will "crumple" elk when you use the right bullet and put it in the right spot...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by BWalker
Originally Posted by bigwhoop
The fact that this thread has gone on for 40+ pages indicates that average calibers have made a significant inroad into the magnum debate.
The elk hunting articles of the last 40-50 years spoke to the necessity of larger calibers. But midwestern and eastern deer hunters found success with 308's, 270's and 30-06's. How could that be? The need to put a reasonably well constructed bullet in the heart/lungs convinced many that elk were just large deer. Despite using premium bullets, placement was paramount and the ultimate game changer. The other factor was to enjoy the cat and mouse game and not to shoot farther then your confidence level.


I dont know the mental gymnastics one has to go through to suggest that because one thinks a magnum may be a better mouse trap that they also believe a non magnum won't work. They in fact will work, just not as well and we are talking about what's best here, not what is adequate.
Former board members like Allen Day and BobinNH would tell you flat out that magnums crumpled elk better than standards and both had plenty of experience.



A magnum only stretches out the killing distance by a small amount. I've killed elk with many different cartridges including 300wsm, 30-06, 9.3x62mm, 338wm and 300wm. I don't think anything ever killed any better than the good ol 06 spitting 200gr partitions. Most of my elk have been shot at close range and have only taken one step after being hit. The ones that ran the furthest, are the ones shot with the biggest heaviest pill I've used: the 286gr nosler partition in the 9.3x62mm. I actually shot 2 elk with that rifle and both ran further than any other elk I've shot. The 30-06 loaded with 200's and the 338wm have been my favorite elk cartridges. Most cartridges will work just fine, if you put the right bullet in the boiler room. Or lets just say, most cartridges will "crumple" elk when you use the right bullet and put it in the right spot...

They work pretty dramatically at close range too.

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My .340 Wby does pretty well at longer ranges:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Just kidding.

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Originally Posted by MarineHawk
My .340 Wby does pretty well at longer ranges:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Just kidding.



ha ha.. That's meat damage right there..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I love the 1980s Cold War gadgets.

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Originally Posted by MtnHtr
If you can't shoot a magnum proficiently then man up and admit it, then choose a good 270 or 3006 and learn to shoot it.




I can shoot a 7lb all up 300 WM better than you, yet I still would go with sub 45 grains of powder for elk, anywhere you want to take a pic of.


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Kill lots of elk in Alabama??


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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Kill lots of elk in Alabama??


That's funny if you are questioning John Burns on killing elk... Like someone else always says, "this chidt is never not funnny"...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Keep it simple stupid.
30/06,
168 ttsx if mono or 180 or 200 partitions.


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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MtnHtr, not sure what you’re trying to show in the pics, but it doesn’t look much/any different than a lot of places we hunt in NM.

There are a bunch of places that if a bull travels to far you’re going to have problems, whether it’s getting into private or dying in a hell hole. The only guaranteed way to stop it is a CNS shot, regardless of cartridge. Bow hunting you deal with it all the time.

Dam glad I’ve never hunted anywhere that someone else claiming my dead bull was a problem.

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Originally Posted by SLM
MtnHtr, not sure what you’re trying to show in the pics, but it doesn’t look much/any different than a lot of places we hunt in NM.

There are a bunch of places that if a bull travels to far you’re going to have problems, whether it’s getting into private or dying in a hell hole. The only guaranteed way to stop it is a CNS shot, regardless of cartridge. Bow hunting you deal with it all the time.

Dam glad I’ve never hunted anywhere that someone else claiming my dead bull was a problem.


+1 for Montana.


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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Kill lots of elk in Alabama??



As many as you.

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by SLM
MtnHtr, not sure what you’re trying to show in the pics, but it doesn’t look much/any different than a lot of places we hunt in NM.

There are a bunch of places that if a bull travels to far you’re going to have problems, whether it’s getting into private or dying in a hell hole. The only guaranteed way to stop it is a CNS shot, regardless of cartridge. Bow hunting you deal with it all the time.

Dam glad I’ve never hunted anywhere that someone else claiming my dead bull was a problem.


+1 for Montana.


Both of you missed the point of my post/pics, so much for comprehension? Please re-read. I was simply backing up what Elkmen1 and BWalker posted, some places are gonna be rough and you want to put down a bull asap or risk losing it. Btw the bowhunters and muzzleloaders who hunt this unit go up higher off a main road in the quakies and meadows during the rut where it's much easier. No trails here.






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