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Campfire Tracker
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Maybe the LBT hardness tester gizmo takes more skill than I have. I find the Lee hardness tester kit to be much more reliable and consistent on repeat measurements: The 50:50 reference above is to a mixture of 1 part Linotype to 1 part 92-5-2-1 alloy (aka Alloy 25, aka hardball with arsenic). Weight of the mix is intermediate to the components. Really not worth doing. A comparison of clip-on wheel weight alloy to "hardball with arsenic" alloy, for relative weight: The clip-on wheel weight alloy is about 1 % heavier.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Sir Spruce, Take note of a reduced load using Unique with 500-grainer, should do well with your 485-grainer. Here is a snapshot of a fortune cookie 45lc youtube video with my comments "Painted" upon it, taken from the words of FC45LC: That pointy bullet is an N.O.E. slick/HTC 500-grainer that has been PC-painted. In another video, FC45LC fired a grease-grooved cast 500-ish-grain bullet in a SAAMI .458 WM. 5 shots were grease-lubed naked lead and sized to 0.458" and key-holed into a turkey-choke shotgun pattern at 50 yards. 5 shots were PC-painted plus grease-lubed and sized to same 0.458" yet formed a 5-shot group slightly bigger than one inch at 50 yards. Powder charge was same, about 50 grains of AA-2200, no filler, IIRC, and chrono velocities circa 1700 fps for both groups. Short-COL seating was same for both. I bet if fortune cookie 45LC had sized all the bullets to 0.461", both batches would have done better. Most Excellent ! Ya, 16 gr of Unique is Definately doable. That Accurate mold I'm planning on doesn't have a very wide meplat . That shouldn't be a problem as the cast bullets won't be my primary hunting or game bullet. However with enough practice I should be able to fill the freezer . Learning the trajectory of both a bp equivalent velocity and a high velocity loads . Should be enough for my memory banks. Would be fun doin it semi Old School.
Last edited by CTF; 02/16/21.
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Great to see all the focus on the original Monolithic bullet here! As always Ron amazes with work, detail, accuracy and photographic skills. The 458WM T has always been a great choice for Cast shooting. We have exposed the Truth of that over the last couple of years along with all the other Myths Busted. Thank you Ron for pointing out the heat treatment results versus Aging data. Lot easier to let them lay in the bullet drawer than heat treat them. I do think that the presence or lack there of for the two elements, Antimony and Arsenic, play a role in Heat treating. I don't see any reason to explore that except for the cause of science because if we can get to 20 + BHN with 95-2-1 alloy, we simply need nothing better for a hunting bullet. Best regards fellow, Fury01
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Great to see all the focus on the original Monolithic bullet here! As always Ron amazes with work, detail, accuracy and photographic skills. The 458WM T has always been a great choice for Cast shooting. We have exposed the Truth of that over the last couple of years along with all the other Myths Busted. Thank you Ron for pointing out the heat treatment results versus Aging data. Lot easier to let them lay in the bullet drawer than heat treat them. I do think that the presence or lack there of for the two elements, Antimony and Arsenic, play a role in Heat treating. I don't see any reason to explore that except for the cause of science because if we can get to 20 + BHN with 95-2-1 alloy, we simply need nothing better for a hunting bullet. Best regards fellow, Fury01 He is one of a kind that is for sure. I always loved those old gun articles from both magazines and books he put up on the old Democrat sponsored AR's 458 thread.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Sir Bill Bagwell passed on to The Happy Hunting Ground today. Rush Limbaugh went ahead of Bill by a few hours to clear the way for Bill. Two heroes. Amen.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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That Accurate mold I'm planning on doesn't have a very wide meplat . That shouldn't be a problem as the cast bullets won't be my primary hunting or game bullet. However with enough practice I should be able to fill the freezer . Learning the trajectory of both a bp equivalent velocity and a high velocity loads . Should be enough for my memory banks. Would be fun doin it semi Old School.
Sir Spruce, Your 0.285" meplat is 62% of caliber, plenty good, about ideal ! Sir Bill Bagwell said even the small FN meplats are helpful on impact. Accurate Molds makes only FN meplats and the smallest they make is what, 0.180" ? About 39 % of caliber for a .458. Smaller meplat does offer better BC and better feeding possibly. It is a trade off. If velocity is higher and impact medium harder, they all turn into big FN meplats !
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire Regular
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Thanks for the post and the pictures and videos.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
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Great to see all the focus on the original Monolithic bullet here! Right ! Very reliable and predictable, those first monolithics of lead, and paper-patched was the first jacket material. One just has to Learn how to Bagwell and Selous with them.
... The 458WM T has always been a great choice for Cast shooting. We have exposed the Truth of that over the last couple of years along with all the other Myths Busted. Thank you Ron for pointing out the heat treatment results versus Aging data. Lot easier to let them lay in the bullet drawer than heat treat them. I do think that the presence or lack there of for the two elements, Antimony and Arsenic, play a role in Heat treating. I don't see any reason to explore that except for the cause of science because if we can get to 20 + BHN with 95-2-1 alloy, 92-5-2-1 we simply need nothing better for a hunting bullet. Best regards fellow, Fury01 Sir Dennis (Fury01 to those in Rio Linda who don't keep up with the Knight titles), Above repeated for emphasis, and to correct a minor typo. 10 pounds of Lawrence Brand Magnum Shot (shot size 7-1/2) + 0.5 pounds (8 ounces) of 50:50 (lead:tin) solder = 92-5-2-1 Alloy = Alloy 25 = Hard Ball with Arsenic Alloy 92% lead 5% antimony 2% tin 1% arsenic Best I can tell, but whatever it is it works pretty well. Where are all the great cast bullet loads for the .458 Lott, I wonder ?
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I want to try the 400 gr Woodleigh in my .460 Wby and .450 Howell. Ken, The .460 Wby and .450 Howell aren't nearly powerful enough for jackrabbits. You should be looking at a .505 Gibbs
Last edited by High_Noon; 02/17/21.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right. - Del Gue
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Campfire Tracker
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... on the old Democrat sponsored AR's 458 thread.
Sir MikeMcGuire, Buy a donkey for those flowers. I especially liked that last part. DALDs !
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire Tracker
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Thanks for the post and the pictures and videos. Welcome. Just me doing some hero worship of Bill "sharpsguy" Bagwell..
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Sir Bill Bagwell passed on to The Happy Hunting Ground today. Rush Limbaugh went ahead of Bill by a few hours to clear the way for Bill. Two heroes. Amen. Very sad news 🙏🙏🙏 for both
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
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I want to try the 400 gr Woodleigh in my .460 Wby and .450 Howell. Ken, The .460 Wby and .450 Howell aren't nearly powerful enough for jackrabbits. You should be looking at a .505 Gibbs Or maybe a .500 A2.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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I want to try the 400 gr Woodleigh in my .460 Wby and .450 Howell. Ken, The .460 Wby and .450 Howell aren't nearly powerful enough for jackrabbits. You should be looking at a .505 Gibbs Or maybe a .500 A2. I think Woodleigh make a 510 of 440 grains that is a Black Powder Express bullet. Should do will in a 500 A2. Get a 500 A2 and just neck up 460s and then also neck 'em back down.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
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Thanks for the post and the pictures and videos. Welcome. Just me doing some hero worship of Bill "sharpsguy" Bagwell..
Trump Won!
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Campfire Tracker
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Just when you think 2021 has got to be better than 2020, Bill Bagwell and Rush Limbaugh returned their talents to God on the same day, 2-17-2021. I didn't start looking for Bill Bagwell Bowies on the internet until the next day and they had all been sold soon as they were put up. But I kept googling and being more amazed at the prodigy from Louisiana. Bill made a trophy Bowie at age 14 y.o. in 1958. It was seen pictured in the collection of a Frenchman, # 1 in the spread below to which I have added the numbers, clockwise in a a circle of 21 Bagwell Blades apparently owned by one Frog: This might be the guy who owns them, wearing the gold and jewel encrusted one (# 18 above) like a pendant on a gold neck chain: How is this related to the .458 WM ? A Bagwell Bowie is to survival knives as a .458 WM is to survival rifles. That's how. Subtitle of the magazine below: "The Cutting Edge of Survival" No better knife, no better smokeless rifle chambering. And bill was a master with a .458-grooved rifle to boot and told us how to make them very effective and pleasant to shoot. Just like his Knives were very effective and pleasant to look at. Nuff said. Sir Jerry's Bagwell Bowie next to a .458 WM+ TBSS load says it well: Back in time to the cover shots on the 1983 Bill Bagwell catalog/brochure, offered for sale for $295, or will trade for another year the owner does not have: From his book that includes his 1984 to 1988 SOF feature articles and a later compilation of history and techniciana, I think I was able to order one of those: BOWIES BIG KNIVES AND THE BEST OF BATTLE BLADES
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Snapshots from Bill's youtube "shoptalk, etc." videos, circa 2007: I watched those and got so inspired that I went to work on my old keepsake USMC knife from the 1960's: The original scabbard is gone, a nylon sheath from a gunshow table stands in for the 10-ounce, 7"-bladed fightin' knife that climbed many trees in my childhood. That is about all the gilding that lilly will stand. I do have a couple of Ruana Bowies that I will trade for a Bagwell Bowie, sumbuddy please, just let me know how much boot you want. I should have got out more and learned about Bill Bagwell Bowies before there was a 3-year wait for one in 2017.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Bill Bagwell approved SMOKELESS load for the Lyman PH 480-ish-grainer in the .45-70 Government as shown above, cast in WW/PB 50:50 alloy dip-lubed with 50:50 beeswax and olive oil: IMR-3031: 38.5 grains Standard Large Rifle primer of your choice MV circa 1350 fps in Shiloh Sharps, accurate. Might be slowed down to perfect Bagwell velocity in a Marlin or Winchester lever action. Recommended to a bear guide who was very happy with it. Wisdom of Bill Bagwell: "Shooting is supposed to be like sex, fun not painful."
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Wisdom of Bill Bagwell: "The enemy of good is gooder."
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Ron, you should have been a writer and definitely should write a book. You are both entertaining and informative
Thanks for the posts
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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