Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Maybe the LBT hardness tester gizmo takes more skill than I have.
I find the Lee hardness tester kit to be much more reliable and consistent on repeat measurements:









The 50:50 reference above is to a mixture of 1 part Linotype to 1 part 92-5-2-1 alloy (aka Alloy 25, aka hardball with arsenic).
Weight of the mix is intermediate to the components.
Really not worth doing.

A comparison of clip-on wheel weight alloy to "hardball with arsenic" alloy, for relative weight:









The clip-on wheel weight alloy is about 1 % heavier.

Most Excellent !
Ya, 16 gr of Unique is Definately doable.
That Accurate mold I'm planning on doesn't have a very wide meplat . That shouldn't be a problem as the cast bullets won't be my primary hunting or game bullet. However with enough practice I should be able to fill the freezer .
Learning the trajectory of both a bp equivalent velocity and a high velocity loads . Should be enough for my memory banks. Would be fun doin it semi Old School.

Great to see all the focus on the original Monolithic bullet here! As always Ron amazes with work, detail, accuracy and photographic skills. The 458WM T has always been a great choice for Cast shooting. We have exposed the Truth of that over the last couple of years along with all the other Myths Busted.
Thank you Ron for pointing out the heat treatment results versus Aging data. Lot easier to let them lay in the bullet drawer than heat treat them. I do think that the presence or lack there of for the two elements, Antimony and Arsenic, play a role in Heat treating. I don't see any reason to explore that except for the cause of science because if we can get to 20 + BHN with 95-2-1 alloy, we simply need nothing better for a hunting bullet.
Best regards fellow,
Fury01

He is one of a kind that is for sure. I always loved those old gun articles from both magazines and books he put up on the old Democrat sponsored AR's 458 thread.

Sir Bill Bagwell passed on to The Happy Hunting Ground today.
Rush Limbaugh went ahead of Bill by a few hours to clear the way for Bill.
Two heroes.
Amen.

Sir Spruce,
Your 0.285" meplat is 62% of caliber, plenty good, about ideal !
Sir Bill Bagwell said even the small FN meplats are helpful on impact.
Accurate Molds makes only FN meplats and the smallest they make is what, 0.180" ? About 39 % of caliber for a .458.
Smaller meplat does offer better BC and better feeding possibly.
It is a trade off.
If velocity is higher and impact medium harder, they all turn into big FN meplats !

Thanks for the post and the pictures and videos.

Sir Dennis (Fury01 to those in Rio Linda who don't keep up with the Knight titles),

Above repeated for emphasis, and to correct a minor typo.

10 pounds of Lawrence Brand Magnum Shot (shot size 7-1/2)
+ 0.5 pounds (8 ounces) of 50:50 (lead:tin) solder =
92-5-2-1 Alloy = Alloy 25 = Hard Ball with Arsenic Alloy
92% lead
5% antimony
2% tin
1% arsenic
Best I can tell, but whatever it is it works pretty well.

Where are all the great cast bullet loads for the .458 Lott, I wonder ?

Ken,
The .460 Wby and .450 Howell aren't nearly powerful enough for jackrabbits. You should be looking at a .505 Gibbs

Sir MikeMcGuire,

Buy a donkey for those flowers.
I especially liked that last part.
DALDs !

Welcome. Just me doing some hero worship of Bill "sharpsguy" Bagwell..

Very sad news 🙏🙏🙏 for both

Or maybe a .500 A2.

I think Woodleigh make a 510 of 440 grains that is a Black Powder Express bullet. Should do will in a 500 A2. Get a 500 A2 and just neck up 460s and then also neck 'em back down.

Just when you think 2021 has got to be better than 2020, Bill Bagwell and Rush Limbaugh returned their talents to God on the same day, 2-17-2021.
I didn't start looking for Bill Bagwell Bowies on the internet until the next day and they had all been sold soon as they were put up.
But I kept googling and being more amazed at the prodigy from Louisiana.
Bill made a trophy Bowie at age 14 y.o. in 1958. It was seen pictured in the collection of a Frenchman, # 1 in the spread below to which I have added the numbers,
clockwise in a a circle of 21 Bagwell Blades apparently owned by one Frog:



This might be the guy who owns them, wearing the gold and jewel encrusted one (# 18 above) like a pendant on a gold neck chain:



How is this related to the .458 WM ?
A Bagwell Bowie is to survival knives as a .458 WM is to survival rifles.
That's how.
Subtitle of the magazine below: "The Cutting Edge of Survival"





No better knife, no better smokeless rifle chambering.
And bill was a master with a .458-grooved rifle to boot and told us how to make them very effective and pleasant to shoot.
Just like his Knives were very effective and pleasant to look at.
Nuff said.
Sir Jerry's Bagwell Bowie next to a .458 WM+ TBSS load says it well:



Back in time to the cover shots on the 1983 Bill Bagwell catalog/brochure, offered for sale for $295, or will trade for another year the owner does not have:





From his book that includes his 1984 to 1988 SOF feature articles and a later compilation of history and techniciana,
I think I was able to order one of those: BOWIES BIG KNIVES AND THE BEST OF BATTLE BLADES

Snapshots from Bill's youtube "shoptalk, etc." videos, circa 2007:







I watched those and got so inspired that I went to work on my old keepsake USMC knife from the 1960's:





The original scabbard is gone, a nylon sheath from a gunshow table stands in for the 10-ounce, 7"-bladed fightin' knife that climbed many trees in my childhood.
That is about all the gilding that lilly will stand.
I do have a couple of Ruana Bowies that I will trade for a Bagwell Bowie, sumbuddy please, just let me know how much boot you want.
I should have got out more and learned about Bill Bagwell Bowies before there was a 3-year wait for one in 2017.

Bill Bagwell approved SMOKELESS load for the Lyman PH 480-ish-grainer in the .45-70 Government as shown above,
cast in WW/PB 50:50 alloy
dip-lubed with 50:50 beeswax and olive oil:

IMR-3031: 38.5 grains
Standard Large Rifle primer of your choice
MV circa 1350 fps in Shiloh Sharps, accurate.
Might be slowed down to perfect Bagwell velocity in a Marlin or Winchester lever action.
Recommended to a bear guide who was very happy with it.

Wisdom of Bill Bagwell: "Shooting is supposed to be like sex, fun not painful."

Ron, you should have been a writer and definitely should write a book. You are both entertaining and informative

Thanks for the posts