Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A though on the religious threads

Did, I hear, "Power"?

Let these old cowboys tell us about.

He said that, but how is that presented nowadays...?

Is it presented as a description of an elitist type of exclusivity...?

Or is it presented as a simple description that a narrow gate is harder to pass through than one that is wide...?

Do believers who say that to others do so from the perspective of “only a few of us get to go through, I’m one of them, ‘maybe’ you can be too...?

Or do believers who say that to others do so from the perspective of “getting on that path and going through is something that requires effort and focus...?

Let's be clear. We are not "rejecting god(s)", we are rejecting claims made by theist due to a lack of sufficient evidence to support their claims.

Good questions. I believe the “narrow gate” is used to illustrate the discipline and difficulty required. None of us are perfect, making the requirements a daily challenge.

"We are Saved by GRACE!"

Sometimes, some of us have to hit on the head hard enough to "See The Light.

I get that. But some clearly do reject God. Maybe not you, but some. And that’s their prerogative. Just as it’s the prerogative of Jesus followers to believe what they do...even though they cannot provide what many deem to be ‘proof’ regarding the existence of God and all that that entails pertaining to their specific faith.

Good post my friend. Sounds like something Weinstein would say, and yes, it's very much on topic.

In order for someone to "Reject God", they must first believe that God exists. One someone accepts the god exists I can see rejecting them, or refusing to follow them on moral grounds, but not logical grounds. Plenty of gods are too evil for an enlightened moral person to follow.

I get that too, but I think it’s also possible for one to flat-out reject the existence of God, without ever having accepted the existence of God in the first place.
And again, that’s their prerogative.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

I understand the bit about “rejecting claims made by theist....”

I worked for a boss one time and we had a major business issue to address. I went to him and explained in great detail about how he needed to change his course of action and reverse a decision he had made. He did not accept what I had told him, made a couple of smart remarks and the meeting was over. About 6 weeks later, he called on the phone and told me in no uncertain terms to “get my.....” over,to his office, we had a major problem. Trying to cut the story short, I told him he had failed to heed my prior advice and now we had a mess on our hands. He erupted in even more furious rage.... he thundered at me: “You mean you knew I was making a mistake and let me go ahead and make it? YOU FAILED TO CONVINCE ME!” I then got one of the most memorable a** chewings of my life.

I never forgot it and he was right in a way..... I knew I had been right.... I knew he was making a mistake and I had indeed failed to convince him. But he made a mistake as well.... he was “the boss” and was exerting his right to make decisions. He also dismissed my best efforts to convince him of his error.

Just because a “theist” .... in your view.... fails to provide sufficient evidence to support their claims ......does not absolve ....you...of your responsibility to seek and listen.

I see it that way too. It’s much harder to love others, especially those who are hard to love...first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what...than it is to follow some cherry-picked rules and regulations.

It's a fine point, but in your example above, what's being rejected it the proposition, or the claim a god(s) exists, not the god(s) itself.

And it that context it can apply to any set of principles intended to lead a person to a better way of life, be those principle Christian or otherwise.

Agreed. For me personally, trying to follow Jesus’ teachings has made my life better, and it’s made me better at life. I have no doubt that...had I done so much sooner than I did...those that I loved most would’ve had better lives as well.

I think there is a tendency on our part to think there was at some point in history (whether that be US, World, or Church) a “golden age”. People mess stuff up and people have always been messing stuff up. If you read the NT you see this and if you read Church history it’s also apparent.

There was never a time when people acted like Jesus. He was the only perfect Jew and the only perfect Christian. That’s why we are in such dire need of His death on the cross; because we’re flawed humans who by our nature screw stuff up.

I’d be ecstatic if we could get to a point where the only thing that offends people is Christ and the necessity of His death, burial, and resurrection. That’s what I strive for when I discuss these things with people anyway... imperfectly...

Soli Deo Gloria

That's my point. I run across very few people who actually have a problem with Jesus Himself; I run across very few people who actually have a problem with His teachings; and I actually run across very few people who have a problem with Jesus and the necessity of His death, burial, and resurrection.

Gotcha; that’s interesting. I have friendships with all kinds of people who object vehemently to their need. Other people maybe... some reject the human condition as conceived by Christianity altogether.

I don’t know anyone inside or outside the visible Church who don’t have a problem with people in the Church. I tend to think that’s part of the reason why God established it; because His project wasn’t merely to make us right with Him but also to build a community of people who’ve been made right with Him and need to work on getting right with each other. And that’s no small endeavor; certainly nothing that is going to be terribly attractive to people who haven’t seen that they’re just as tough to love as you and I are. It isn’t even attractive to us!