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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper

II Corinthians 4:3,4
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

Satan is here the false god of this world. This is the luciferian deception we are pointing out.

True.

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by antlers
I think the message of Jesus resonates with a lotta people. I think a lotta the messengers of that message are largely what drives many people away from it. Understandably.
Or at least the excuse used is the messenger. If the message of Christ was understood and believed then how it was received would not matter.
The current generation of church leaders is losing the conversation with non-Christians. In fact, they’re mostly not even in the conversation anymore. But they continue to absolve themselves of any responsibility for this. Maybe they need to change their approach to the conversation itself, because their current approach to the conversation is making less and less of a difference every day.

The western church is dying. The persecuted Church is growing.

People are brought to Christ not through persuasive words or silver tongues. People are brought to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

"And when he[Holy Spirit] comes, he[Holy Spirit] will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:"
(Joh 16:8 ESV)

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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by OldHat
Christ also told us to judge but to do it righteously. “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” (Joh 7:24 ESV)The context of Mat 7:1 is telling us not to be a hypocrite. “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." (Mat 7:5 ESV)Paul was very judgmental when the situation required it.
He (Paul) did make it crystal clear that he had no business judging ANYBODY outside of the church. How many times have we seen ‘Christians’ judge non-Christians for not acting like Christians...? Why would a ‘Christian’ expect a non-Christian to act like a Christian...? Why would a Christian be critical and berating to a non-Christian for not acting like a Christian...? Apostle Paul said “what business is it of mine to judge those outside of the church...?” Why would a Christian judge outsiders for not embracing the values of something they’ve never signed up for in the first place...?

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
(Gal 1:8-9 ESV)

So Constantine and all the Bishops of Nicaea went straight to Hell???????

I'm not sure since I don't know their true hearts. I suspect Constantine was a false conversion, but I don't know. I trust God to make the right decision. After all it's not my call. My only job is to speak the truth as commanded by God.

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Originally Posted by Stophel
Mormonism is very much an American version of Islam. Very similar in how the religions were formed, and how its adherents are to behave.

Mormonism is NOT Christian. Simply put. No matter how the Mormon tries to reword his beliefs to make him sound Christian. There are MANY reasons that Mormonism does not qualify as Christianity, I'll just list one. The doctrine of "Eternal Progression". Look that one up. See if it jibes with what God (the only God, not one of many gods of many worlds) says.

It seems to have much more in common with Catholicism than Islam. But there are many who claim that Catholicism is not Christianity.

Lots of people claim if your belief is not identical to theirs, you are being led by Satan.

Really, if there is only ONE valid belief system, then one has to believe his is the only valid one. To admit otherwise would threaten ones eternal existence.


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r

I say what the Bible teaches. Good works do not save a person. The Bible teaches salvation is through Christ. It is a free gift, but you must accept Him and worship Him.

I accept and worship Christ with all my heart. I hope you will too.

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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,

True!!!

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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Actually, he did judge her, but also forgave her when he said "Go they way and sin no more".
Jesus said “Go and sin no more” to the woman caught in the very act of adultery...’not’ to the Samaritan woman at the well. He clearly didn’t judge the Samaritan woman at the well, nor did he condemn the woman caught in the very act of adultery either, He even said so.


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Originally Posted by OldHat
Jesus clearly taught against sin and rejected sin.
But He attracted people to Himself ‘and’ His message...unlike so many in the church nowadays.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Actually, he did judge her, but also forgave her when he said "Go they way and sin no more".
Jesus said “Go and sin no more” to the woman caught in the very act of adultery...’not’ to the Samaritan woman at the well. He clearly didn’t judge the Samaritan woman at the well, nor did he condemn the woman caught in the very act of adultery either, He even said so.


I believe that Tarquin got his women confused.

He didn’t supposedly come the first time to judge.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,

True!!!



You and tootie personify ignorance in its' most base form.

What, pray tell, is more important or uplifting than being a good person?

If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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My uncle who was like my brother migrated to Idaho in the 90s and ended up in Blackfoot.. Next door neighbor, older Mormon fellow, seemed to be okay.

My first visit, I went up there and stayed a little while. Had my dog with me. Everybody admired my dog, Didi.

One Saturday morning, early, I heard someone knocking on the carport door. I opened it, the neighbor's four-year old grand daughter stood there. Cute as she could be.

"Do you have that dog I saw?"

"Yes," I reply.

"What him name?"

"She's a girl," I respond, "and her name is Didi."

Next question: "Do you drink Coca Cola?"

Now...what was THAT question all about? LOL.

Anyone can spout whatever opinion they like, but that revealed to me that Mormons teach their young at a very young age to screen people. There can only be ONE reason for that.

I've had contact with Mormons practically my entire life. I've known a few who were pretty decent fellows as individuals, one on one. But, to live among them as an outsider---no way. I've seen how "gentiles" are regarded, and none of my contacts have been entirely positive---most of my experiences quite negative in fact. I've even been the subject of religious discrimination at the hands of Mormons. I wish I'd been taping on that particular occasion.

I'd never go among them again looking for a place to be. May as well move into a black neighborhood in Birmingham, Alabama.

YMMV. That is MY experience.


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,

True!!!



You and tootie personify ignorance in its' most base form.

What, pray tell, is more important or uplifting than being a good person?

If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.


mike r



This^^^

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Christ and Paul talked to non believers.
Yep. But Paul was not addressing non-believers in the reference to Galatians that you were referring to where you pointedly told me “I just showed you what Paul said about non Christians.”


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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,


So a pedophile can go to heaven by accepting Christ 30 seconds before he dies, but a good man who lives a life mirroring Christ’s teachings but never “accepts” Christ as the son of God, burns for eternity? Seriously?!



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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,

True!!!



You and tootie personify ignorance in its' most base form.

What, pray tell, is more important or uplifting than being a good person?

If Antlers were the spokesman for the "christians" on here you all would be well represented.


mike r



You speak of ignorance. Try reading it for yourself.

You either believe it and accept it or you don’t . If you don’t then write and live your own version.

Ain’t no skin off anyone else’s ass.

We’ll all be held accountable for what we do and for what we believe or do not believe.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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OH,
Not for a lack of effort on your part, or others like yourself, trying to persuade people with biblical full nelsons and sweet jiu-jitsu torture techniques. But, unfortunately, you, and others, miss read the audience in the room every time.

People hear a positive message, sometimes by accident, given by someone they can relate to who isn’t even trying to throw the word of God against walls to see what will stick...Their message is their life. How they live it and what they show of themselves to others is what may find an open ear.

Too many, like yourself, want to play the game of “who’s the better Angel” thinking you’ll win the day of words and verse.

Nobody gives two shîts about that....Pay attention to people, life, and try to live free for a change.

🦫



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Originally Posted by jackmountain
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r


Depends.

Do you or don’t you believe him when he said:

“I am the way, the life and the truth.No man goes to the Father except through Me”.

Being a “good person “ doesn’t supercede that.

According to what is written,


So a pedophile can go to heaven by accepting Christ 30 seconds before he dies, but a good man who lives a life mirroring Christ’s teachings but never “accepts” Christ as the son of God, burns for eternity? Seriously?!



Read it for yourself, Jack.

You consider yourself as a judge of others?


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Question: a person lives a life during which he harms no one, is dependent on no one and raises and provides for a family that he raises w/ the same values. That person protects and helps others w/ lesser abilities. That person does not embrace the same belief system as do you. Is that person doomed to a fiery furnace or another form of perdition?

Simple question. What say you?


mike r

I say what the Bible teaches. Good works do not save a person. The Bible teaches salvation is through Christ. It is a free gift, but you must accept Him and worship Him.

I accept and worship Christ with all my heart. I hope you will too.


I find the idea that there is today an integrated Christian " faith and church", which is God's faith and church in the same way there was a true and integrated Christian faith (and church) at the time of Christ, to be quite laughable. At the time of Christ, there was obviously only one church, one faith---one accepted canon of doctrine. Moreover, false doctrines were continually creeping in which the Apostles had to fight against. After the last Apostle died, it all went sideways. In fact, doesn't the Bible teach there will be "prophets and apostles" until we all come to a unity of the faith? Where are the apostles and prophets today when there is such obvious disunity? In fact, almost the whole of Christianity denies even the possibility of revelation post-Bible. There are now over 1500 "Christian churches" and they all teach something different about doctrines allegedly essential for salvation. They actually agree on very little. That emphatically was not the situation at the time of Christ. Moroever, in Christ's time the church had a recognized hierarchy and structure. You didn't get to just go out and start your own religion; you had to be called in the manner Aaron was called. (See Hebrews, I think). Also, where in heck do these modern "Christian" ministers get their authority? From the Bible? That's not how Christ conveyed his authority anciently. For starters, there was no Bible to read! Secondluy, apostles and disciples got their authority by laying on of hands from one who himself had authority received by laying on of hand by another, who had authority. The Catholics have the better of the argument here because they at least claim a direct lineage for authority from Peter. The problem is, their core doctrines are wholly apostate. It seems pretty clear to me that God predicted this (an apostasy, see eg., the Parable of the Son and the Husbandmen). The other thing that is just positively risible (to me at least) is this notion that the "Bible", which was collected and written by Catholic priests with the earliest Greek manuscripts coming into existence hundreds of years after Christ, is somehow the infallible word of God when it is full of contradictions and ambiguities that actually make dissent and divisions likely. You have to be willfully ignorant to believe that. These scrivener priests (who, at the time they collected and transcribed) were themselves members of an arguably apostate church with all kinds of bizarre, non-Biblical doctrines (eg., infant baptism and baptism by "sprinkling") arbitrarily decided which "scriptures" to include in the canon and which not to. Who gave them the authority to do that? Certainly not God. Modern Christianity today has little or no resemblance to its ancient version. The idea that what we see today is a continuation of God's church and doctrine is utterly ridiculous wishful thinking, in my opinion. Yet there is no shortage of bigots who want to denounce Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists and JWs, when the claims of the bigots are no more authoritative than those they mock.


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Originally Posted by antlers
The current generation of church leaders is losing the conversation with non-Christians. In fact, they’re mostly not even in the conversation anymore. But they continue to absolve themselves of any responsibility for this. Maybe they need to change their approach to the conversation itself, because their current approach to the conversation is making less and less of a difference every day.

Of course the religious leaders of the developed nations are losing the interest of the young. Even the young who were raised in The Church.

In the thousands of years that man existed as serfs, slaves, and indentured servitude, Heaven existed to them as a reprieve from the tortuous lives they led.

Inhabitants of "First World Nations" feel little need for such promises as today, they exist in "Heaven on Earth".


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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