He stated a preference for the 150s. I've settled on Speer 150's with IMR 4166 in my 20" Steyr Pro Hunter, getting 2800 fps with 48.0 grains, consistently 2" @ 200 yd zero.
What I have found is I can't get 150 and 165 grain Interlocks to group as well for me as they had in years past. This is across several 308s known to be good shooters.
Interesting... My "laboratory" may not be as sophisticated as yours, however I am also shooting a stock of recent Hornady 150's and am interested in current manufacturing accuracy results. What is your current hunting 150 grain preference?
Devnull, Just to make sure we're clear, are those fired in your 20" M12? If so, that 47 grain charge looks like it's got some potential. Maybe some OAL experimentation might help/
What I have found is I can't get 150 and 165 grain Interlocks to group as well for me as they had in years past. This is across several 308s known to be good shooters.
Interesting... My "laboratory" may not be as sophisticated as yours, however I am also shooting a stock of recent Hornady 150's and am interested in current manufacturing accuracy results. What is your current hunting 150 grain preference?
I still have most of a box of older Hornady 150 flat base Interlocks that I'm conserving. The 150 grain SST shoots pretty well too.
I've had excellent results from the Nosler 150 grain Ballistic Tip. Lately it has been my 150 grain hunting bullet.
The 150 grain Sierra Game King and Pro Hunter are great shooters too.
Devnull, Just to make sure we're clear, are those fired in your 20" M12? If so, that 47 grain charge looks like it's got some potential. Maybe some OAL experimentation might help/
Thanks, Rex
Yes, all shot in my M12 Impact with 20" barrel.
These were the same bullets but using MR4064 and seated out a little father. IMR4064 produced higher velocity than RL-15. Chrono'ed with a LabRadar:
Caliber: 0.308 OAL: 2.173 Comp. / 2.757 OAL Brass: Hornady Powder: IMR 4064 Bullet: Hornady 150 Interlock Primer: CCI 200 Case Prep: F/L and trimmed. Neck graphited. Temp: 62° F. Notes: 46.2 gr 46.6 gr 47.0 gr 47.4 gr 47.8 gr
3 shot groups to check out potential, Next strings will be 5 shots to see consistency.
Nosler 200 AB Win brass Rem Primer MR-2000 48.0 COAL 2.955/2.940 .15 Off the lands MV 2,592/2,603/2,608 (No signs of pressure) https://imgur.com/gNve601
Nosler 200 PT COAL 2.930/2,900 .30 off the lands MR-2000 48.0 MV 2,626/2,610/2,615 (Showed classic signs of pressure I plan on dropping .5 grain) https://imgur.com/JoCy7K0
Lapua Scenar 155 Lapua brass Rem primer COAL 2.895/2.890 .5 off the lands Varget 47.5 MV 2,849/2,857/2,855 The flyer was cold bore shot https://imgur.com/PGFulPD
Lapua Scenar 155 Lapua brass Rem primer LEVERevolution 48.0 MV 2,806/2,804/2,805 shot just over an inch, 1.2" no pic
Horn 220 ELD-X Win brass Rem Primer MR-2000 45.0 COAL 2.925/2.910 .15 off the lands MV 2,441/2,418 https://imgur.com/I8TO6jy
Nosler 125 BT's shot horrible with a 5" group. Win brass Rem primer Tac 50.5 MV 3,137/3,173 no pic
NOTE:
Quote
I've settled on Speer 150's with IMR 4166 in my 20" Steyr Pro Hunter, getting 2800 fps with 48.0 grains,
I blew a primer with this load shooting 155 Scenars.
What I have found is I can't get 150 and 165 grain Interlocks to group as well for me as they had in years past. This is across several 308s known to be good shooters.
You might cross check the base to ogive measurements on the old vs. new interlocks. They have changed that dimension before and it took me a while to sort it out.
Based on SU35's success with Varget, I took a dozen rounds to the range today, 6 each of the 165 BT and the 168 ABLR over 46 grains for Varget. Lapua cases and WLR primers. He and I had talked earlier about how the Big Game load seemed to have a very "sharp" muzzle blast and recoil, compared to Varget, so I had to check it out. Before I had only loaded up to 45 gr Varget and only for a group or two, and it shot a bit under 2700 FPS. I have not yet measured the groups but they were OK. The interesting thing is that 46/Varget consistently gave me 2750 FPS in my 20" M12 ( a little faster than the 51/BG load I've been working with) but the muzzle blast and recoil were noticeably more pleasant - not as sharp. I am going to play around with this and the 168 ABLR (which it shot best today) with some seating depth variations, because this shows real promise. Varget seems "dirtier" than Big Game, but how big a deal is that? BTW, my M12 has a very smooth barrel and barely copper fouls at all. I get plenty of powder residue and carbon but copper is gone after two soaks with Wipeout.
Back to the 20" M12 - Ramshot's max load of 51 grains of Big Game gives mine 2727' with the 165 BT. That load averaged .00053" Case Head Expansion (CHE) on the first firing in Lapua brass, and showed no additional CHE on subsequent loadings in the same cases, which is generally what you're looking for if using CHE as one of your pressure assessment tools.
45gr / Varget gives 2675' with the 165 BT, and that is a grain to a grain and a half below commonly used charges (Hodgdon's max is 46 - Mule Deer's go to load is 46.5), So I have no doubt it'll break 2700' as well. I've not shot above 45 gr yet though. But I don't have much Varget (hoping to save it for the 9.3x62, but do have an 8# on backorder), and I have plenty of Big Game, 2000-MR, and TAC. So if I can reach my goal with them, that'll be preferable.
Cheers, Rex
Rex, Where did Mule Deer state that 46.5 gr of Varget was his pet load with a 165? The only article I've seen where he mentions 46.5 gr of Varget as a pet load is with a 150gr AccuBond:
I'll have to defer to SU35 on that question, as my notes as I look through them now show him using 46.0. I reckon I read it somewhere (46.5) and SU35 thought the same and mentioned that earlier too. Bob - do you recall the source on that? I don't reckon on going over 46.0 myself but somehow thought the same as you regarding MD's max. I have a notebook where I record loads recommended online and not necessarily from manuals. I'm looking at it right now in the .308 Win section and I see (as you alluded to) a load of 46.5/Varget under the 150 NAB with 2900 FPS listed with an unspecified barrel length, and "(JB)" next to that note. On another page I have the note that "Barsness uses 46/Varget for everything from 150 to 168 grains in the .308" - obviously something he wrote somewhere and I copied down. Maybe I am to blame for an error and miscopied the 46.5/Varget with 165 grain from my notes when I made the post you quoted above. We'll see what SU35 has to say, or if his source was ME. In which case that's my bad.
off topic, but why in the hell do people respond and end up buying a rifle or a scope with names like Extreme attached to them?
Is the average consumer that dumb? or does names like Extreme make someone really think they are out there on the Edge?
The Edge of What? and what makes a rifle with a name like Extreme on it.. extreme as compared to what?
Do they sell more of them with the name Extreme attached to it, then they would sell with just calling it a Mauser Model 12?
I guess a 98 Mauser just sounds dull and boring, just like a Model 70 Winchester or a Remington 700....
Just a pet peeve of mine, on how society thinks....How bout a Model 1 Super Ultra Super Short Magnum Extreme? does that motivate anyone? or does it sound as stupid to anyone else as it does to me? Fits right in with the world of Video Games in my book.
Being sort of practical is probably a weak point of many in my personality...
Not trying to hijack thread here Flame suit on for those that want to fire away.....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I agree it's a dumb name that is inherently repellent to me for the same reasons you listed. I can assure you those of us who recently picked one up did so because it was a $1500+ MSRP rifle being blown out for $507 shipped not because of the name. I think the name refers to the synthetic stock being suited for extreme weather, I guess, since the Model 12 is also available in a very nice wood stock. I only included it in the title of the thread because I wanted a place to discuss loading specifically for this 20" barreled, free-floated model that a number of us recently purchased.
I have no issue with the term 'Extreme' it immediately spoke to me of taking on extreme weather just as the M70 EW supposedly does.
It is a marketing word that gets noticed, whether sour grapes or sweet. So far the rifle is sweet, and I'm glad I bought one as it performs up to its name.
I've seen a couple references lately to Varget getting along particularly well with CCI 200 primers. At the risk of having too many variables at once, I might add that in to my load work with the Extremely Extreme Mauser M12 as I have more of those than any other LR primers, and have not yet paired them with Varget in the .308. Worked great together in the 9.3x62 though. Thoughts on that combo?
I agree it's a dumb name that is inherently repellent to me for the same reasons you listed. I can assure you those of us who recently picked one up did so because it was a $1500+ MSRP rifle being blown out for $507 shipped not because of the name. I think the name refers to the synthetic stock being suited for extreme weather, I guess, since the Model 12 is also available in a very nice wood stock. I only included it in the title of the thread because I wanted a place to discuss loading specifically for this 20" barreled, free-floated model that a number of us recently purchased.
Cheers, Rex
Well ya know Rex, I can't think of a better answer than that. This kinda struck me as some of the stupid names of things marketing dept put out there.. I read this and posted after just seeing a TV commercial for a Tactical Flash light....I guess being painted flat black, makes it Tactical...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
