It is slow around here. Why not the venerable .308 Winchester?
A couple years ago I decided I wanted a Sako again. I have wanted one on and off since high school. I found a deal on one of the new Sako 85 Classics in 308 nib. I would have preferred the rifle in 7mm-08 but alas the 308 was the chosen one. I also have a fantastic Kimber 84 in 308 but I only carry that rifle when I a slipping around the deer woods. It carries wonderfully and shoots equally well. Additionally, I shoot a custom 308 on in F class so I know the cartridge and its capabilities pretty well. I just never really had any interest in it as a hunting round for some dumbass reason. It is kind of boring to me and my preferred hunting cartridge has long been a 280 Remington which is admittedly more finicky.
Anyway, I have spent a couple years with the Sako in 308 now. I have loaded everything from 180 grain partitions down to 125 grain ballistic tips and the rifle has shot everything very well. I settled on 150 and 165 grain Hornady SPs for the rifle and it has been flawless taking several pigs, a couple does. a coyote, and 1 nice 8 point. In the field the damn cartridge just works. Well. On paper it is about as efficient as they come and it will stretch on out there.
I hear what you are saying. Could have saved myself a pile of cash over the years if I had just stayed with the 308. But what fun would that have been ?😃
There is a reason why you never hear of anyone shooting a 308 winchester AI.... It can't be improved upon!! Molon Labe
I am a .308 Whore it is a reloaders dream cartridge but I also love the 30-06 and .300 Win......I could easily hunt the rest of my days with a lightweight bolt action .308 Win and be perfectly happy 👍....Hb
A 308 was my first centerfire. Many years later I have come to appreciate the goodness of the mundane 308. I currently own two. They are easy to feed and make accurate. Recoil is modest, which means something to me at 75 with a bad shoulder. What's not to like?
I have several 308’s. My current heart throb is a Sako 85 Finnlight II in 308, 22” barrel for the last two seasons.
There aint much in Texas you can’t whack successfully with a 308. It was my first centerfire in 1976 & remains in my top five favorite cartridges to this day. The others being 280, 7 RSAUM, 7 Wby & 300 WSM.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country." Robert E. Lee
My 308 is a JC Higgins 51-L that has been filling most of my whitetail doe tags the last few years, except for last year. Favored load has been a home cast NOE copy of the Saeco #315 180 gr lead gas check bullet, PC'd and running around 2200 fps with H4350. Does a number on them. No bullets recovered yet, including the two straight on shots.
It is slow around here. Why not the venerable .308 Winchester?
Dunno, why not? What are your reason why not?
It is what I've been using the past few years and it works. It is fully adequate for what I want to do but it is flat and boring as warm beer open since yesterday. Mine is not going anywhere, it's going to stay in the safe ready to go, but life is too short to give in to boring ... I will also continue looking for things that pique my curiosity.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
OK, OK! My name is John and standing, admitting here in the Hunting Forum... Not a hunter! That said, in 308 my battery including a couple of Win pre 64 Model 70, standard and featherweight, plus Mod 88 Carbine. A Rem 760 and... A K98K pattern 7.62 NATO mauser, which I particularly like and propose to share here! To say "it shoots to my capability", truthful if something of great humor nowadas! That itty-bitty aft barrel sight... actually does 'seem' pretty accurate. Rifle condition is also pretty nice & I really 'enjoy for what it is'! Pix below.
I’m late to the 308, bought a Savage Hog Hunter to use with suppresser loads. It is extremely accurate with 150 GameKings. I use the same load in a couple Savage 99’s. They kill deer and pigs, plus an occasional Aoudad with ease.
Been shooting the 308 since the early 60's. It's just so easy to get along with. More than a few have come and gone over the years. Down to my last 308. A Ruger Hawkeye All Weather, pretty sure it will be here till the end of days.
I think the 308 is hard to beat. I fought the idea of one for years, finally after deciding it just makes too much sense for the type of hunting I do, I had this one done up. Stan Taylor at Douglass barrels did the work. It weighs 7# even scoped and handles and carries like a dream.
A 308 is in any conversation when talking about a big game rifle. I have 3, a Winchester Model 100 is my favorite whitetail rifle, a Rem Model 788 is my most accurate with 110 and 125 gr v max, and a Ruger Model 77 which shoots heavy bullets well and I use for Moose hunting. Why 3 ? Don't know.
I would have got him too but a Dad Blam snow flake hit me in da eye....
I have had several 308s through the years, but shot only a few head of game with it. I've owned a Mod 742, Mod 70 FWT, Mod 7600, Mod 700 ADL, a 98 Mauser, a Ruger Ultralite (kicking little devil!) and a few M1As. I loved shooting the M60 Pig in the Army, but hated packing it around! My old hunting partner here in Utah uses his HS graduation gift in 1970, Model BLR in 308 on everything here, including Henry Mnt Bison! His choice is the 150 corlokt, factory or handloaded. I used the factory 150CLT on one whitetail, and the old, softer Nosler 165 BT handload on an Axis buck. Always been a "bigger faster freak", ha. For woods deer/hogs, love the 30-30. You figure from WW1-Korea the 30-06 was using a 150gr around 2700...thats Modern 308 speeds easy cheesy! Not bad company to be in. Its a fine round. Having said that, I only shoot the M1A anymore, currently use the 270 Win, 300WM and "fixing to" use the 338 RCM. Do I "need" any of them over the 308? Nope, just "life is too short, so many rounds to play with, so little time."
In the field the damn cartridge just works. Well. On paper it is about as efficient as they come and it will stretch on out there.
You are not wrong. The .308 isn't sexy, but you can't argue with results, and I've only had good ones with the .308. Seen a lot of animals fall to it over the years, and no "hinky" stuff.
For what it’s worth….the 308 Winchester is my second favorite rifle cartridge. (First being the 7mm-08 Remington) I only have one, and that is a Ruger stainless MkII. I will not sell it.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
I've had a few throughout the years. I just found a used 85 Black Bear .308. It came with Talley 30mm QDs and is awesome with the short barrel and iron sights.
I think I've had 6 of them over the years, still have 2. Can't imagine being without one.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
I have three Ruger M77 RSI rifles in .308. (Don't ask) I got into every one of them cheap as their previous owners said they were inaccurate and couldn't find a load that would work. Well, the long story short is it took a little over two years to find something that would work Turned out it was the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core over a charge of W760. Velocity was all of 2550 FPS and groups averaged 1.5". Later I relieved the edges of the metal cap on the fore end and groups dropped tp 1.25". Killed a few deer with that one. My wife decided she wanted to hunt and I told he to pick out a rifle and she grabbed the RSI. As luck would have it, I found another that I got for an even trade. Worked up to the load that worked in the first one and relived the cap and bingo, it shot just as nicely as the first. When number three showed up, I said what the hell and bought it. Same load and cap treatment as it shoots as nicely as the first two. Interesting story on the rifle I traded for RSI #2. It too was a Ruger M77 tanger and the guy said it wouldn't shoot. As I looked it over, I noticed the scope was so loose I could twist it back and forth. I told the guy that the reason he couldn't get groups was the loose scope. He told me I was nuts and he was getting rid of that POS. We dickered on the price a bit and I took it home. Got the scope lined up and tightened down. Pick up a box of factory ammo and went to the range. Worst five shot group was .80". I still regret trading that one. The guy that got it was a friend, otherwise I think I would have kept it. Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
I think the 308 is hard to beat. I fought the idea of one for years, finally after deciding it just makes too much sense for the type of hunting I do, I had this one done up. Stan Taylor at Douglass barrels did the work. It weighs 7# even scoped and handles and carries like a dream.
I think the 308 is hard to beat. I fought the idea of one for years, finally after deciding it just makes too much sense for the type of hunting I do, I had this one done up. Stan Taylor at Douglass barrels did the work. It weighs 7# even scoped and handles and carries like a dream.
OK, OK! My name is John and standing, admitting here in the Hunting Forum... Not a hunter! That said, in 308 my battery including a couple of Win pre 64 Model 70, standard and featherweight, plus Mod 88 Carbine. A Rem 760 and... A K98K pattern 7.62 NATO mauser, which I particularly like and propose to share here! To say "it shoots to my capability", truthful if something of great humor nowadas! That itty-bitty aft barrel sight... actually does 'seem' pretty accurate. Rifle condition is also pretty nice & I really 'enjoy for what it is'! Pix below.
Best John
There is an Israeli Mauser kicking around here too. At least that fine little front sight gives you some pretty precise aim, although I can't shoot it to the same potential as I do the Criterion barreled M1 Garand sitting next to it. That thing belts! When I say potential I mean averaging slightly over MOA with 39.5 gr. 3031 under a 130gr TTSX in a Lake City case.
Those Mausers sure do handle and point well though. Carry a lot nicer. Jealous on the Win pre 64s. I did not know they were offered in standard configuration. That's not a rebarrel? If its factory, would love to find one of those!
When it comes to ballistics, 7mm-08 may be a better mousetrap but I'll never hunt or shoot far enough to see it.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
In the whitetail woods here in VT/NH/ME - 44.0 - 44.5gr IMR 4064 behind a Horn 150 makes me happy every time. For me, it’s perfect in my fine old 77 RL tang safety .308. I have many other combos but this one I am particularly fond of.
My buy-on-the-spot rifle is any left handed good shooting stainless 308 with a threaded barrel for an affordable price. Which shouldn't be too much to ask but apparently it is.
In the whitetail woods here in VT/NH/ME - 44.0 - 44.5gr IMR 4064 behind a Horn 150 makes me happy every time. For me, it’s perfect in my fine old 77 RL tang safety .308. I have many other combos but this one I am particularly fond of.
I have two 40-X’s and I bought my son a stainless model 7 many years ago. The 40-X’s do what they’re designed for and my son’s little rifle has accounted for lots of deer with either the 150 Speer or Nosler Partition and WW 748.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
I recall scoffing at the stubby .308 in my youth, even as my aunt killed everything with her Savage 99 in .300 Savage. Over the years I picked up a Polytech M14S, then a M1A-A1 Sgringfield with an 18" bbl. Both very accurate w iron sights, but still toys. I bought an HK 91 that cheek slapped me to no end, I traded it for an AR10T with a Lothar Walther bbl. Thalt was the most accurate rifle I may have ever owned. I took a couple Antelope with that before I sold it in a moment of financial strife. I picked up an AR10a4 carbine during the '12 gun grab scare. It shoots, but that skinny bbl heats up quickly. Then, about 5 years ago, I kept falling into deals on Sakos. An AII Varmint with the benchrest trigger, then an AII Deluxe, and now an AII carbine. ( Not a great deal, but I had wanted one for a long, long time.)
I guess I'm a fan after all.
"Damn right it's loaded, it makes a lousy club" -JW
I used to be in love with speed. A 6.5 CM showed me what you can do with decent bullets at 2700 fps. I came across a great deal on a Tikka T3X Superlite stainless in 308 Win. That .308 Win is prob the last rifle I would part with. It is light, recoil is not a problem, and I can shoot great bullets from 130-180 grains at 3100-2600 fps. It will do everything I need done on North American game and there is all manor of great loads to shoot at targets. What’s not to like?
Expat
"There are no dangerous weapons. There are only dangerous men." - Robert Heinlein
Acccording to Speer and Sierra data, it will beat that with 130 grain bullets, which are comparable sectioal density. And 140s run about 2850, with better sectional density.
The .308 is a reasonable hunting cartridge. The .308 AI is better for the reloader. The bore diameter is really larger than is needed/beneficial for most applications. 6,5mm or 7mm on the Creedmoor or .308 AI case seems more generally useful.
You know, there's not a damn thing wrong with the 308 Winchester..............except it's not a 30-06.
Good. Much rather a 308 on a lightweight rifle than a 3006.
Exactly - the .30-06 is basically inferior to the ,308 - less efficient, worse shoulder, long action, and lower SAAMI max pressure. That's why .30-06 factory loads can consistently be duplicated int he .308 and then fired in a lighter, handier rifle.
My first center fire was a .30-06 and it just recoiled too much for my 16 year old frame. I got to reading and saw that the .308 did virtually the same thing at 100 fps less, but with like 20% less recoil. I've had a bunch of them and ended up making a perfectly good Ruger Mkll .308 into a more perfect 7mm-08 and now get to pay 50% more for my factory ammo if I can even find it. No deer would ever tell the difference. Now looking at the 2021 Big Game Rifle Roundup in the new issue of Rifle Shooter I see that the .308 cartridge is being chambered in 19 different rifles and the 7mm-08 in only 4. Oh oh.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
I guess I would simply classify the 308 Win as an extremely useful cartridge on 90+% of worlds game from coyotes to moose in America, to all plains game in Africa. Whatever shortcomings it has are only figments of someone’s imagination.
I have both 308 and 30-06 ,I like each for what is and what it will do differently than the other. Diversity is the strength of my collection. Piss on anyone that doesn't like that. You all have a nice saturday. Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
Whatever you say, bob. The only thing I can see the inferiority of is your logic. Tossing out comparisons of factory loads and then saying they're irrelevant.
In 24" barrels, a common 165 ish gr hunting bullet, operating at SAAMI pressures in both .308 and '06...gives the '06 a hundred yard advantage, but 24" .308's are not common, so if you compare 22", then the '06 pulls ahead...would an animal know the difference? I don't know, but I don't have huge confidence whacking an excited elk at 200 yards with a 2100 fps impact velocity. Yeah, you can go with some new powders and push the envelope a little in the .308...but you are still trying to catch up to the obsolete '06. But, I admit a 1/2" longer action and bolt throw is a huge disadvantage...grin.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
In 24" barrels, a common 165 ish gr hunting bullet, operating at SAAMI pressures in both .308 and '06...gives the '06 a hundred yard advantage, but 24" .308's are not common, so if you compare 22", then the '06 pulls ahead...would an animal know the difference? I don't know, but I don't have huge confidence whacking an excited elk at 200 yards with a 2100 fps impact velocity. Yeah, you can go with some new powders and push the envelope a little in the .308...but you are still trying to catch up to the obsolete '06. But, I admit a 1/2" longer action and bolt throw is a huge disadvantage...grin.
You can always count on anyone advocating for the .30-06 to have all sorts of misinformation. You're no exception.
.308 AI shooting the 200gr Terminal Ascent. The top temp-insensitive powder is H4350 and velocity out of a 22" is right about 2600 at max load. It doesn't hit 2100 ft/s until 450 yards at elk elevation, and that's with a 200gr not some piddly 165. Not that it matters much, since the bullet is designed to work all the way down to 1350 ft/s.
You can always count on anyone advocating for the .30-06 to have all sorts of misinformation. You're no exception.
.308 AI shooting the 200gr Terminal Ascent. The top temp-insensitive powder is H4350 and velocity out of a 22" is right about 2600 at max load. It doesn't hit 2100 ft/s until 450 yards at elk elevation, and that's with a 200gr not some piddly 165. Not that it matters much, since the bullet is designed to work all the way down to 1350 ft/s.
You simply don't know what you're talking about.
LB, what is the case capacity of your 308 WCF AI in H2O? Also, how many grains of H4350 are you applying as Max Load? BTW you know P.O. Ackley considered the improving of the 308 WCF a worthless endeavor stating that consideration to do so presented no discernible advantage over the standard in powder capacity or noticeable increase in velocity. In fact he stated in his findings it was due to the lack of tapering on the standard, that being only 0.016”. So if you can get 2,600 fps out of a 200 gr. bullet with a BC of .608 (the Ascent, that’s a long .30 cal bullet) in a 22-inch barrel from a 308 WCF AI, whereby shorter (less BC) bullets out of the 308 Win barely scratch 2,400 fps I’d like to know how you do it. Seriously.
My first center fire was a .30-06 and it just recoiled too much for my 16 year old frame. I got to reading and saw that the .308 did virtually the same thing at 100 fps less, but with like 20% less recoil. I've had a bunch of them and ended up making a perfectly good Ruger Mkll .308 into a more perfect 7mm-08 and now get to pay 50% more for my factory ammo if I can even find it. No deer would ever tell the difference. Now looking at the 2021 Big Game Rifle Roundup in the new issue of Rifle Shooter I see that the .308 cartridge is being chambered in 19 different rifles and the 7mm-08 in only 4. Oh oh.
Yeah the 7-08, or 7x57 have limits, especially ammo supply. An unfortunate problem for sure, and across most ammo. I quit handloading awhile ago as I don't shoot much anymore. But the 7mm is about the sweet spot for most uses.
You can always count on anyone advocating for the .30-06 to have all sorts of misinformation. You're no exception.
.308 AI shooting the 200gr Terminal Ascent. The top temp-insensitive powder is H4350 and velocity out of a 22" is right about 2600 at max load. It doesn't hit 2100 ft/s until 450 yards at elk elevation, and that's with a 200gr not some piddly 165. Not that it matters much, since the bullet is designed to work all the way down to 1350 ft/s.
You simply don't know what you're talking about.
LB, what is the case capacity of your 308 WCF AI in H2O? Also, how many grains of H4350 are you applying as Max Load?
Something like 59.5gr H20 fired with Lapua brass. I don't have my notebook in front of me, but I think there's an OBT node at 47.9gr of H4350 and about 2590 ft/s for a 22". That puts transducer pressure at about 63KPSI. Max is a little higher than that arguably in a modern rifle. I don't have my notebook handy so don't take that as gospel though - I could have flipped a couple numbers
^^^Yup, ain't it miraculous what another 2 grains of powder capacity can do in the hugely popular .308 Ackley"? ^^^^ According to one of my books, it's so miraculous, it escaped the development of PO Ackley himself, who opined, "it isn't worth doing considering the shape and volume of the .308 Win." Other people called it an Ackley because it had near no taper and 40 deg shoulder. But, what the hell, if Bob's happy with it I am too. Like Bob told me, "you don't know what you're talking about". He's right, I thought we were talking about the .308 Win...one of the all time greats IMO.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
I took my largest whitetail with the 308... 200 lbs "dressed" weight. I took my first Mule Deer with the 308. I took my largest bull Elk (7x7) with the 308. I've taken pronghorn and coyotes with the 308. I like the 308.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
For many years my elk rifle was a 30-06. About 4 or 5 years ago I switched to a 308win. Using the same ammo (fed premium factory loads of 180gr partitions) I've had no problems killing elk with the 308. Out to 300 or 325 yards, about the maximum distance I'll shoot, I can see zero difference between the two. Ymmv.
Killed a lot of deer with the 308, actually considered it overkill at times within the ranges i shoot deer here in the east. It’s not actually but it sure can put them down with authority. I currently don’t own one, a lot of guns come and go at my house so I’m sure there will be one in the future. My current kill everything east of the Mississippi rifle is a Remington 700 308 that JES made into a 358win( and here I said the 308 may be overkill at times). I don’t know why but I love that little thumper round. When I get west of the Mississippi I use a 30-06 for bigger animals, just a preference and since I handload I can really turn it into a Swiss Army knife of a round. Recoil to me is about the same and I can squeeze more power out of it. That gun is a lightweight husky I bought in the classifieds that I put into a custom stock I also found on the classifieds.
I’m finding as I get older I love the experience of the hunt more than the kill. The firearm is a part of that, I like a gun I’ve put some work into and has a story. Just like I like the experience of the actual hunt (miles hiked, stalks on animal, scenery and especially who I share the hunt with) more than pulling the trigger.
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
I have three 308 rifles, love them all and all have a bunch of kills on them.
The AR-10 was just too much for me to carry around, so I went to a 300 HAMR (30-30 ballistics out of an AR-15), or a 6mm ARC (308 ballistics out to 600 yards or so out of an AR-15).
Mrs. Walter will be sporting the 6mm ARC for hunting this year. I may take the 300 HAMR just to bloody it.
I'm trying to talk her into a drive to Texas for a hog hunt.
Or closer, any recommendations? We're in the TriCities in south eastern WA State.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
My two favorite hunting rifles at the moment both happen to be in .308win. Seems like I always have at least one on hand.
This one is a bit chunky, but that's part of why I like it. Makes it steady to hold and easy to hit with. Ruger M77 Hawkeye 22" with the 2-stage trigger. Leupold with LRD matches the 150gr NAB/NBT at 2,860fps. Shoots both bullets pretty much interchangeably. More or less a grab-it-and-go stainless sporter.
Handle is light for a laminate.
This one also gets used a lot, and I mention it a lot, just because I think it's such a well-executed concept. 20" small-frame AR-10 (DPMS/Rem GII). Likes the cheap Federal blue box 150's, which I found in stock again today. My favorite to tote when there's a lot of hog sign present. Very low recoil. VX-R 3-9 and a RRA 2-stage Varmint trigger. Rail-mounted green light.
Kiddo thought this was a "nice pig" until we walked up on it.
It's about two months until temps will drop enough to start chasing hogs again.
That Ruger goes around 9lbs scoped, if I recall correctly. There's a lot of steel in the magnum-weight tube and the Ruger rings. We hunt private property around here, so there's not a lot of hiking involved, mainly short walks and long sits.
Guys, I've stayed OUT of this thread. I'm not a 308 fan. I had ONE, loaded - graphed - hunted - & killed with it. I know what it can and can not do. I haven't had one in 35 + yrs and have not thot of getting another one.
I started reading this thread out of boredom. WISH I hadn't. The following is beyond comprehension! ! !
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Exactly - the .30-06 is basically inferior to the ,308 - less efficient, worse shoulder, long action, and lower SAAMI max pressure. That's why .30-06 factory loads can consistently be duplicated int he .308 and then fired in a lighter, handier rifle.
It's reliable - the most sensitive girls in the hunting world are enamored of the .30-06 and get all in a twist when the fact that it's an inferior cartridge is pointed out
.308 AI - excellent cartridge design .308 - acceptable cartridge design .30-06 - drooling moron cartridge design (both for military and hunting)
What's so moronic about a case with 56 grains of 4350 and a 180 grain bullet in it? And it ain't even my fav cartridge. And as far as the military goes, its not like the caliber of a bayonet handle made all that much impact in the wars that were fought. Coulda been 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 7.62x54R etc and been six of one, half dozen of the other. Not like anyone was doing anything all that different.
This amount of investment/vitriol over a cartridge seems strange.
But I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier, The last of Barrett's Privateers
What's so moronic about a case with 56 grains of 4350 and a 180 grain bullet in it?
From a military perspective, the problem with the .30-06 is that the bore was too big and the case/OAL was too big. This was based on a combination of a mistaken belief in a need to stop cavalry charges and a mistaken belief that indirect fire from small arms was useful. The result was a cartridge that consumed at least 50% more resources than it should have to do a worse job than it could have. Interestingly both the Navy and the arsenal had clearly seen where things were going with the 6mm Navy and .276 Pedersen,. but the Army was stuck in the mud and got their way by sheer bull-headed stupidity.
From a hunting perspective, there are several problems: - an inefficient shoulder and taper designed for machine gun use that increases recoil,. reduces velocity, and reduces case capacity - an overly-small diameter that gives unneeded magazine capacity in trade for loss of case capacity - an overly long case and overall length adding weight to both actions and barrels with no benefit - a low MAP caused by weak rifles and excessive taper
Take that all together, and it's hard to imagine what a WORSE hunting cartridge of the same general case capacity and bore diameter would look like. I guess you could take a .30-06 and add an unnecessary belt and make it a little [bleep], but only a little.
The .308 is a better hunting round - better shoulder, better taper, shortened, better MAP. The .308 AI is a step better, improving the shoulder further, and the .300 WSM better still - finally fixing the case diameter problem.
What's so moronic about a case with 56 grains of 4350 and a 180 grain bullet in it?
From a military perspective, the problem with the .30-06 is that the bore was too big and the case/OAL was too big. This was based on a combination of a mistaken belief in a need to stop cavalry charges and a mistaken belief that indirect fire from small arms was useful. The result was a cartridge that consumed at least 50% more resources than it should have to do a worse job than it could have. Interestingly both the Navy and the arsenal had clearly seen where things were going with the 6mm Navy and .276 Pedersen,. but the Army was stuck in the mud and got their way by sheer bull-headed stupidity.
From a hunting perspective, there are several problems: - an inefficient shoulder and taper designed for machine gun use that increases recoil,. reduces velocity, and reduces case capacity - an overly-small diameter that gives unneeded magazine capacity in trade for loss of case capacity - an overly long case and overall length adding weight to both actions and barrels with no benefit - a low MAP caused by weak rifles and excessive taper
Take that all together, and it's hard to imagine what a WORSE hunting cartridge of the same general case capacity and bore diameter would look like. I guess you could take a .30-06 and add an unnecessary belt and make it a little [bleep], but only a little.
The .308 is a better hunting round - better shoulder, better taper, shortened, better MAP. The .308 AI is a step better, improving the shoulder further, and the .300 WSM better still - finally fixing the case diameter problem.
After reading this I'm trading off my 30-06 immediately. The logic is irrefutable
I used to come for the info - now I come for the entertainment.
That's for sure
Agreed. An OP starts what appears to be a harmless thread extolling his opinion of the virtues of a specific cartridge and it turns into a "you suck" thread, as usual. I'll bet the OP looked at this recently, scratching his head, and thinking, "I just don't know what happened". To risk opening myself up to ridicule, it is definitely one of those which could be one's sole rifle.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
One of the best all-arounders. Respected everywhere & only questioned in the widest of wide open West…but with dials who even cares about that anymore.
Fine fine cartridge that simply does it’s job better than it is often expected, provided bullets are chosen appropriately of course. Plus those short little carbine rifles (Ruger 77 RL type) are the more modern version of handy & nimble like a M94 30-30 is and was.
I used to come for the info - now I come for the entertainment.
That's for sure
Agreed. An OP starts what appears to be a harmless thread extolling his opinion of the virtues of a specific cartridge and it turns into a "you suck" thread, as usual. I'll bet the OP looked at this recently, scratching his head, and thinking, "I just don't know what happened". To risk opening myself up to ridicule, it is definitely one of those which could be one's sole rifle.
Ones "sole" rifle cold be so many different cartridges. The 308 works fine, just as so many similar cartridges do. The 308 is like opinions and azzholes. Everyone has one..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I used to come for the info - now I come for the entertainment.
That's for sure
Agreed. An OP starts what appears to be a harmless thread extolling his opinion of the virtues of a specific cartridge and it turns into a "you suck" thread, as usual. I'll bet the OP looked at this recently, scratching his head, and thinking, "I just don't know what happened". To risk opening myself up to ridicule, it is definitely one of those which could be one's sole rifle.
Ones "sole" rifle cold be so many different cartridges. The 308 works fine, just as so many similar cartridges do. The 308 is like opinions and azzholes. Everyone has one..
Agreed on all counts.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Having to mess around with a 308 AI and see no appreciable difference in ballistics over the standard is fool hardy. The 308 Win will always be useful in every way in the game field, the 30-06 will always be a bit more useful on the heaviest of game. Nothings going to change that. Going to an Ackley version in the 308 Win and saying it has the same ballistics as an 30-06 is hyperbole. The only non magnum short action .30 caliber that runs somewhat with the 30-06 is the 30-284. But just like all SA cartridges it will not achieve those goals in a 2.8-inch magazine when it comes to high BC .30 caliber length bullets seated deep. It is possible in a 3-inch magazine to achieve parallel ballistics with some bullet weights as the 30-06. If that was my desire I would never go AI as a wildcat when I could get 6.5-284 Norma Brass and utilize for the 30-284. It would achieve much more than an 308 AI with less pressure. I’ll just stick to the 308 Win, it simply lacks in nothing as a big game cartridge, same for the 30-06, which has proven itself over and over and is the benchmark of comparison for many hunters in the field.
Carrying an M60 Pig and 2 boxes of 500rd belts ( short handed in '72-'73, no AG) up 4 flights of stairs to a post at a window ( 30 men in 30 minutes Guard drill) in Germany was my worst memory of the 308 (7.62). Shooting it at silhouettes at 1000yds was my "best" memory. NOT lugging it, shooting it in anger in Vietnam instead of Germany...priceless!
One of the best all-arounders. Respected everywhere & only questioned in the widest of wide open West…but with dials who even cares about that anymore.
Fine fine cartridge that simply does it’s job better than it is often expected, provided bullets are chosen appropriately of course. Plus those short little carbine rifles (Ruger 77 RL type) are the more modern version of handy & nimble like a M94 30-30 is and was.
Well said, a LRF and a quality dialing scope have expanded my horizons on my 308
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
I wonder what a 308 would be like in the new savage straight pull rifle
Heavy, kinda homely, and expensive
Some guys from the NRA were testing a .30/06 at the range I frequent the other day. No one seemed all that excited about it. Can’t see an 8 pound plus rifle setting the world on fire. Interesting design, but nothing compelling about it at this point that I can see.
All the 308 based cartridges have a good place in the hunting field. I like and have the 243, 260, 308, and the 358 Winchester. I see I am missing the 7-08. I still may have a couple of 308s rebored to the 358 Winchester. I guess one couldn't ask all those room temp Hajis of recent conflicts if the .308 was efficient!?! I have a friend who made a lot of cold VCs with the 06 right before they went to the 308s. Capt Land and a few of those wonderfully crazy Marines.... God Bless you Sgt Major De War. Be Well Y'all, RZ.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
Dad bought a .308 M88 in 58. He bought me a .330 Savage. He is gone now but his M88 is the property of my grandson.
I used dads Model 88 off and on too. We had a trigger job done and put on a receiver sight and eventually a 2-7 Leupold.
In the Marines I used the M-14, Garand and M-16. The M-14's I used were amazing. I still prefer them to othe battle rifles.
After I got out of the Marines in 70 I ended up buying a 99E in .308 and hunted it for about five years. I killed deer and elk with it but I sold it and bought an '06. I found it easier to get the velocities I wanted with 180 gr bullets and , for me, easier to reload.
I was without a .308 for about three years and didn't miss it. Eventually I got dads .308 and had it around for a loaner spare.
When I gave it to my oldest boy, I asked that he pass it down to his son at the appropriate time and he has.
Being fresh out of .308's and wanting to have something in that chambering I bought a blued 16 in GSR. My best hunting buddy fell in love with it and bought it off me.
I replaced it with a SS 18.3 inch GSR So yeah, I guess the .308 is venerable to me too.
I wonder what a 308 would be like in the new savage straight pull rifle
Heavy, kinda homely, and expensive
Some guys from the NRA were testing a .30/06 at the range I frequent the other day. No one seemed all that excited about it. Can’t see an 8 pound plus rifle setting the world on fire. Interesting design, but nothing compelling about it at this point that I can see.
I was curious about one. I have never seen one. I would have thought it would be lighter than that.
Want to pickup a .308 Tikka this year, but feel the pull of a .270. Never owned a .270 before. Using a 22 inch barrel and factory ammo does a .270 shoot much flatter out to 400 yards? I love the availability and selection of .308. Hard to make up my mind.
I had quite a few 600’s and 660’s in 308. Get carbines! Wish I had kept one. I think the 600’s are over priced now. I had a very heavy AR in 308. Very accurate but it went down the road. I had an early 700 BDL in 308. I gave that 700 to my oldest son. It was stolen shortly after. That was a very nice rifle. I had a 1962 vintage 700 carbine in 308. Decided that should be a 358, so I re-barreled it and sold the 308 barrel. I recently bought a CZ in 308. That’s the only 308 I own now. I’ve sighted it in with some loose rounds I had on hand. I think I’ll be loading it with 150 Partitions for white tail this year.
I would really like a M14, but they are out of my price range.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
Hard to beat a good 308. Also most 308 threads are good for at least one guy trying to sound smart and ends up calling his favorite cartridge..."vulnerable" haha
I don't know about "venerable"..... boring... yep , low drama yep... great, no .... ok yes.... versatile, somewhat. I had no use for one for years , now I own several and like them
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
I'm a little late to the .308 game, got my first in June.
It's currently getting cut down to 18" and having an ASR muzzle brake installed for my Omega .300. It's also being bedded into a Greyboe Trekker stock.
I'm also waiting for a NF SHV 3-10X42 MOAR scope to come in to top things off. I'm hoping to use this on pronghorn, black bear, and elk this fall.
My daughter has been using the Howa Alpine .308 for a few years now with great success. That coupled with my suppressor made me want to step down from the .30-06 and .270 I normally hunt with.
I don't know about "venerable"..... boring... yep , low drama yep... great, no .... ok yes.... versatile, somewhat. I had no use for one for years , now I own several and like them
I've had a .308 of one sort or another since 1964. I currently own two: a pre-64 Win 88 and a much newer Mod. 70 Fwt Stainless, both with 22" barrels. I also own a Win 70 30-06 SS with the 24" sporter barrel. Even though the chrono says there's a difference between the two with the same weight bullet (about 150 fps), I've never noticed any difference on game (deer, moose, elk). Hence, I usually use one of the .308's because they're lighter and shorter. I know my own limits - never take a shot longer than 300 yards, so a round with power/trajectory to help out past that distance isn't something I'd take advantage of. For me, a near perfect round... ... YMMV
Very fond of the 308. I have never had one that was hard to get to shoot. Seems to be a dramatic killer with soft 150 gr. bullets. That said since I got my 7-08 tuned up the 308 has been in the safe but that may change this year.
I finally got mine up and running, will use it for elk next month.
How are you liking the Trekker? If you could get them with left side flush cups I would have gone with one on my last build....I tt Grayboe and they said it wasn't possible on that stock. I'm considering giving one a try on my next project.
I wonder what a 308 would be like in the new savage straight pull rifle
Heavy, kinda homely, and expensive
Some guys from the NRA were testing a .30/06 at the range I frequent the other day. No one seemed all that excited about it. Can’t see an 8 pound plus rifle setting the world on fire. Interesting design, but nothing compelling about it at this point that I can see.
An 8 lb Savage . I think I will buy five. LOL
FUGK CCP
It’s time to WAKE UP GOD BLESS THE USA WWG1WGA THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES
I had quite a few 600’s and 660’s in 308. Get carbines! Wish I had kept one. I think the 600’s are over priced now. I had a very heavy AR in 308. Very accurate but it went down the road. I had an early 700 BDL in 308. I gave that 700 to my oldest son. It was stolen shortly after. That was a very nice rifle. I had a 1962 vintage 700 carbine in 308. Decided that should be a 358, so I re-barreled it and sold the 308 barrel. I recently bought a CZ in 308. That’s the only 308 I own now. I’ve sighted it in with some loose rounds I had on hand. I think I’ll be loading it with 150 Partitions for white tail this year.
I would really like a M14, but they are out of my price range.
How do you like that CZ? I have a CZ .22lr that is accurate. I can shoot quarter sized groups at 100 yards with cci ammo. It's a nice looking rifle as well. I wouldn't mind one in a bigger cartridge.
I finally got mine up and running, will use it for elk next month.
How are you liking the Trekker? If you could get them with left side flush cups I would have gone with one on my last build....I tt Grayboe and they said it wasn't possible on that stock. I'm considering giving one a try on my next project.
I like it a lot, and it's probably the best buy for a light stock that fits Remington 700 or clone actions under $700. I don't think most people who approach a build looking for functionality would be disappointed in this stock. If you want something more traditional and this light you're going to have to look elsewhere.
Left side flush cups would be nice, I have to turn the sling stud just to attach a sling to the butt. The bottom metal is proud, and the stock design beats my off hand up if I'm squeezing the rear bag and shooting heavy bullets. That's the only real faults I find with the stock.
However, the stock came in at the advertised weight big plus in my eyes. The rifle weighs 8 lbs with NF 3-10X42 SHV in Warne Mountain Tech mount and rings, and 9 lbs with suppressor attached. It is very rigid, it probably has more in common with a chassis than a traditional stock as the barreled action sits more atop the stock than in it.
I like the grip, I feel I have better control from most field positions. It also feels pretty good for off hand shooting, this is the first stock I own on a hunting rifle that uses a vertical grip and I'm adapting rapidly. I do wish I had opted for the Pic rail instead of the sling studs on the forend. The studs are fine and work well with my bipod, but looking at lighter bipods or tripod attachment a Pic rail would open my options up.
It was supposed to be a BDL inlet, but as you can see the bottom metal is proud. It really doesn't affect anything, it's just noticable. I'll add the Pic rail later after hunting season is over.
It was supposed to be a BDL inlet, but as you can see the bottom metal is proud. It really doesn't affect anything, it's just noticable. I'll add the Pic rail later after hunting season is over.
I've got an M5 short action inlet on the way. Grayboe has a Labor Day 20% off in-stock stocks and bottom metal....was good timing. For anyone considering one of their stocks or bottom metals:
Trekker arrived last Friday. M5 bottom metal inlet is TIGHT and a little proud, about like taylorforce1's. It's right on for the weight. Put a barreled action in it to play around a bit and I like the ergo's. Looking forward to getting the rifle up and running.
Ahhhhh, a 308 thread.. My absolute favorite caliber! Hard to find something not to like about it and i now own two. Think about it,
1. I still found ammo for 308 on the shelves at cabela's 2. Short action makes for easier bolt operation and a lighter rifle 3. Powerful enough to handle most game 4. easy to reload if you are into that ( I am not - Strictly factory ammo) 5. Easy on the shoulder
A number of years ago i bought a Savage weather warrior which has been my most accurate rifle. Its on the lighter side, manageable recoil, Syn stock and stainless barrel. Perfect for hunting in the snow/rain and weather. Man i LOVE this rifle. Just picked up another 308 Ruger with a short threaded barrel for my can. using sub sonic its whisper quiet and easy on the ears. Its hard to argue against the 308 although some will try but I see it as almost the perfect hunting tool.
Finally got the action back from coating, screwed everything together, and sighted in. Had to change the rings from Ken Ferrell's to Seekins to get a little more clearance for the bolt handle when I added scope caps....so I'll need to touch up the sight in. Really like the Trekker stock and MDT 3 round mags.
Even though it may be a bit behind several other short action rounds on slick bullets, it's an efficient and accurate little round. I shoot a generic .308 load and I've yet to find one it doesn't shoot well in. .308's have are just so easy to feed.
My favorite rifle is a Tikka T3 .308 midnight bronze cerakote in a Realtree Timber stock. I was told it didn’t have enough “knockdown” power. That was all the reason I needed to buy other cals. 😜 7mag, 300win mag, 300 wsm, 30-06… I like them all.
Still the Tikka .308 is my favorite rifle. It’s so crazy accurate. I started reloading this year and it made me look like I knew what I was doing! (Sierra GameChanger 165g)
I know it’s slower, has less powder and won’t get there as fast. But the deer don’t seem to notice any of that. In my experience, a well-placed bullet is better than a super fast errant one.
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That said, in 308 my battery including a couple of Win pre 64 Model 70, standard and featherweight, plus Mod 88 Carbine. A Rem 760 and... A K98K pattern 7.62 NATO mauser, which I particularly like and propose to share here! To say "it shoots to my capability", truthful if something of great humor nowadas! That itty-bitty aft barrel sight... actually does 'seem' pretty accurate. Rifle condition is also pretty nice & I really 'enjoy for what it is'! Pix below. 
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