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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: mauserand9mm] #16272090 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by TF49


Nope, you’ve got it all wrong. Just because YOU don’t see it…..and YOU don’t experience it…does not mean it’s not there


You mean like UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot etc?




Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..

You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that.

Someday, perhaps your mind will be changed




If the gods were real, everybody would see them. Some people do have lucid experiences involving gods, goblins, angels, demons, other people, etc, but this is due to the effect of drugs or some other physiological or psychological reason (there's even the idea of a split brain - bicameral mind, that may have provided the lucid experiences in the period of the proliferation of religions at that time - the same separation of brain function that causes psychosis). You can claim what ever you want that you believe is real but unless it can be tangibly proven to everybody else then high probability is that it doesn't exist - UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot, gods etc. Most religions have had thousands of years of opportunity for the tangible evidence to present itself, but it hasn't happened, and that doesn't really fit the bill for a caring god - why the hide and seek? The white elephant in my last sentence above is that man is older than religion.

If a god appeared publicly tomorrow then I'd have to change my mind but I know that's never going to happen. Threats are that it will happen and that I will be going to hell - I'm happy to accept the odds on that.






You wrote: "....If the gods were real, everybody would see them...." So, the idea of a non-corporeal existence... or entity... or different realm would "not be real" according to your statement....

I guess what you are saying is: "Since I cannot see 'gods' and nobody can see 'gods' then they are not real."



Let me go back ...."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..

You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."



btw.... nobody can see your thoughts, so are your thoughts real or not?


Last edited by TF49; 07/21/21.

The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: DBT] #16272149 07/21/21
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[/b]
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49



Makes me smile..... your "truth" is not offensive.....hardly, as it is not truth at all...... you are simply one who does not know whereof he speaks. What is a bit sad is that you seemingly cannot see truth or do not care to know the truth.

Perhaps some day you will.





Well, it's not my truth. I have nothing to do with what the bible, genesis in this instance, says or describes. I merely point to what genesis says and describes in terms of mornings and evenings of each day of creation, the day on which the sun, moon stars were created, animals, plants, etc.

It says what it says.

It's there for anyone to see and read.

The composition, the wording or the descriptions, are not being 'interpreted' by me.



Of course it is …your…”truth.” You clearly have not understood the concept and action of “eisegesis” and until you do, you will continue to post meaningless drivel like what we read above.

You seemingly refuse to comment on Psalm 91:4….. I suspect you do not want to increase your understanding and are content to wallow in your ignorance…..so be it.


It's not my truth. I neither add or subtract from what Genesis itself says, or what it describes.

That Genesis describes mornings and evenings of each day of creation is there for anyone to see and read. I have quoted the verses, changing nothing.

I don't interpret what is there for all to see.

It is you who wants to transform what Genesis says and describes into something else entirely. You try to make out mornings and evenings of each day of creation represent millions of years, when clearly a morning and evening of a day is simple that: a day.


Consequently is it you who is suffering from an acute case of Eisegesis.




Consider this: The text you are reading in the English language is a translation of Hebrew writings. The word that is translated "day".....the one your read in English... is a translation of the Hebrew word "yom
."

The word "yom" does not necessarily mean a 24 hour solar day. The numbered days in Genesis need not be solar days..... Yes, I know you want it to be 24 hours days.... that is your anti-Jesus bias manifesting in "eisegesis".... ERROR!

"Exegesis" is letting the text give you the information as it is contained in the text...without laying your own bias on it.


The word "yom" can mean an "extended time".... it can mean an "age" .... it can simply be some duration of time.


Here is a brief summary lifted from a Hebrew language scholar:

Genesis 1:5 "... This was the close and the dawn of the first PERIOD."

Genesis 1:8 "...This was the close and the dawn of the second PERIOD."

Genesis 1:13 "This was the close of the close and the dawn of the third PERIOD."

Genesis 1:19 "This was the close and the dawn of the fourth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:23 "This was the close and the dawn of the fifth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:31 "...This the close came, and the dawn came of the sixth PERIOD."


But I would wager that you don't really want to see... nor understand.... any of this... you love your own opinion and are comfortable in your bias. This is OK with me, but you are limiting yourself.


To close..... The creation story in Genesis is... in my opinion.... absolutely brilliant..... It was true and relevant 2000 years ago and it is true and relevant today. Science has changed, but the Genesis message has not. It is btw, exciting to see how scientific discovery fit right in the the the truth of the Bible.

It is more important to know and understand ..... THAT God created... rather than HOW he created.


btw... I remember reading that the universe had gone through many cycles of expansion and contraction... big bang... then expand... then gravity takes over and contraction .... and then another "big bang." Non-God believers would point to this scientific theory to just an "ever being universe" and God and the creation story was not needed to explain this physical world. But now, the prevailing theory seems to be one of continual expansion. OK... I wonder what we will know or think in 50 years?





Last edited by TF49; 07/21/21. Reason: type error

The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272152 07/21/21
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Wabigoon,

Your topic really got legs. It's still on the map!

The flat map.😉


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
If something happened today, Are you 100% sure that you will go to heaven ?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/3BCl_qkqVVo

AND
https://youtu.be/TOdWTJrgTJU

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: TF49] #16272156 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by TF49



You wrote: "....If the gods were real, everybody would see them...." So, the idea of a non-corporeal existence... or entity... or different realm would "not be real" according to your statement....

I guess what you are saying is: "Since I cannot see 'gods' and nobody can see 'gods' then they are not real."



Let me go back ...."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..

You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."



btw.... nobody can see your thoughts, so are your thoughts real or not?



It's not just me, there are lots of people like me. It's not a logical argument to say everything that can't be disproved is real - that leads to infinite fantasy.

Just because you feel and experience something, doesn't mean it's real. The fact that you can't provide evidence to prove to others is a good indication that it's highly likely not real. So you do believe in all gods, ghosts and UFOs? Do you believe everything told to you? How do you determine the true from the false?

Also, if my thoughts aren't real, then probably neither are yours and we aren't having this discussion.

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: mauserand9mm] #16272164 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by TF49



You wrote: "....If the gods were real, everybody would see them...." So, the idea of a non-corporeal existence... or entity... or different realm would "not be real" according to your statement....

I guess what you are saying is: "Since I cannot see 'gods' and nobody can see 'gods' then they are not real."



Let me go back ...."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..

You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."



btw.... nobody can see your thoughts, so are your thoughts real or not?



It's not just me, there are lots of people like me. It's not a logical argument to say everything that can't be disproved is real - that leads to infinite fantasy.

Just because you feel and experience something, doesn't mean it's real. The fact that you can't provide evidence to prove to others is a good indication that it's highly likely not real. So you do believe in all gods, ghosts and UFOs? Do you believe everything told to you? How do you determine the true from the false?

Also, if my thoughts aren't real, then probably neither are yours and we aren't having this discussion.






So.... are your thoughts real or not? Are you just evading here?



You also don't really address the key thought ....."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..

You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."

You cannot back up your statements.....just more obfuscation on your part.


Love to play more but msst sign off....g'night





Last edited by TF49; 07/21/21.

The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

IC-A

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: TF49] #16272183 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by TF49
You wrote: "....If the gods were real, everybody would see them...." So, the idea of a non-corporeal existence... or entity... or different realm would "not be real" according to your statement....
I guess what you are saying is: "Since I cannot see 'gods' and nobody can see 'gods' then they are not real."
Let me go back ...."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..
You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."
btw.... nobody can see your thoughts, so are your thoughts real or not?
It's not just me, there are lots of people like me. It's not a logical argument to say everything that can't be disproved is real - that leads to infinite fantasy.
Just because you feel and experience something, doesn't mean it's real. The fact that you can't provide evidence to prove to others is a good indication that it's highly likely not real. So you do believe in all gods, ghosts and UFOs? Do you believe everything told to you? How do you determine the true from the false?
Also, if my thoughts aren't real, then probably neither are yours and we aren't having this discussion.
So.... are your thoughts real or not? Are you just evading here?
You also don't really address the key thought ....."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..
You can claim God does not exist…. Or is mythical…. But, for a fact….you don’t KNOW that."
You cannot back up your statements.....just more obfuscation on your part.
Love to play more but msst sign off....g'night
Let me first state I am absolutely not atheist. But you cannot expect someone to prove a negative.


"Paul was the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus" Thomas Jefferson
Black Rifles Matter
Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: TF49] #16272237 07/21/21
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[
Originally Posted by TF49


So.... are your thoughts real or not? Are you just evading here?




No, I’m part of your imagination, this isn’t really happening. smile

Thoughts are part of brain activity that can be measured in some form but not able to be accurately read/deciphered directly by measurement (yet?).


Originally Posted by TF49


You also don't really address the key thought ....."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..



I though I had but Hastings put it more succinctly (thanks Hastings):

“…you cannot expect someone to prove a negative.”


If you can’t accept this as a response then the argument isn’t going anywhere.




One thing I’d like to know TF49, if you don’t mind me asking, is how do you determine facts from fiction? (honest question)

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: OldHat] #16272239 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT

Well, it's not my truth.

So what do you believe? How do you think the Universe came into existence?

To believe the Universe appeared from nothing takes greater faith than believing in Christianity.



I think that quote came from someone else. You may have grabbed from the wrong poster. It's not something I'd say.

I made no claim that the universe came from nothing. I made no claim of knowing how it came about or if it did; it may be cyclic, a part of a multiverse or something yet unknown. I don't pretend to know.

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: TF49] #16272244 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by TF49
[/b]
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49



Makes me smile..... your "truth" is not offensive.....hardly, as it is not truth at all...... you are simply one who does not know whereof he speaks. What is a bit sad is that you seemingly cannot see truth or do not care to know the truth.

Perhaps some day you will.





Well, it's not my truth. I have nothing to do with what the bible, genesis in this instance, says or describes. I merely point to what genesis says and describes in terms of mornings and evenings of each day of creation, the day on which the sun, moon stars were created, animals, plants, etc.

It says what it says.

It's there for anyone to see and read.

The composition, the wording or the descriptions, are not being 'interpreted' by me.



Of course it is …your…”truth.” You clearly have not understood the concept and action of “eisegesis” and until you do, you will continue to post meaningless drivel like what we read above.

You seemingly refuse to comment on Psalm 91:4….. I suspect you do not want to increase your understanding and are content to wallow in your ignorance…..so be it.


It's not my truth. I neither add or subtract from what Genesis itself says, or what it describes.

That Genesis describes mornings and evenings of each day of creation is there for anyone to see and read. I have quoted the verses, changing nothing.

I don't interpret what is there for all to see.

It is you who wants to transform what Genesis says and describes into something else entirely. You try to make out mornings and evenings of each day of creation represent millions of years, when clearly a morning and evening of a day is simple that: a day.


Consequently is it you who is suffering from an acute case of Eisegesis.




Consider this: The text you are reading in the English language is a translation of Hebrew writings. The word that is translated "day".....the one your read in English... is a translation of the Hebrew word "yom
."

The word "yom" does not necessarily mean a 24 hour solar day. The numbered days in Genesis need not be solar days..... Yes, I know you want it to be 24 hours days.... that is your anti-Jesus bias manifesting in "eisegesis".... ERROR!

"Exegesis" is letting the text give you the information as it is contained in the text...without laying your own bias on it.


The word "yom" can mean an "extended time".... it can mean an "age" .... it can simply be some duration of time.


Here is a brief summary lifted from a Hebrew language scholar:

Genesis 1:5 "... This was the close and the dawn of the first PERIOD."

Genesis 1:8 "...This was the close and the dawn of the second PERIOD."

Genesis 1:13 "This was the close of the close and the dawn of the third PERIOD."

Genesis 1:19 "This was the close and the dawn of the fourth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:23 "This was the close and the dawn of the fifth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:31 "...This the close came, and the dawn came of the sixth PERIOD."


But I would wager that you don't really want to see... nor understand.... any of this... you love your own opinion and are comfortable in your bias. This is OK with me, but you are limiting yourself.


To close..... The creation story in Genesis is... in my opinion.... absolutely brilliant..... It was true and relevant 2000 years ago and it is true and relevant today. Science has changed, but the Genesis message has not. It is btw, exciting to see how scientific discovery fit right in the the the truth of the Bible.

It is more important to know and understand ..... THAT God created... rather than HOW he created.


btw... I remember reading that the universe had gone through many cycles of expansion and contraction... big bang... then expand... then gravity takes over and contraction .... and then another "big bang." Non-God believers would point to this scientific theory to just an "ever being universe" and God and the creation story was not needed to explain this physical world. But now, the prevailing theory seems to be one of continual expansion. OK... I wonder what we will know or think in 50 years?







Morning and evening are two different words. They are related to periods, specific periods. One period is when the sun is rising: morning. The other when the sun is setting: evening.

Which, in context, the verses specify the morning and evening of each day of creation. The context doesn't allow billions of years. Billions of years of evolution is not special creation. Genesis describes special creation.

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: Happy_Camper] #16272257 07/21/21
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by wabigoon
When I started this, I did not know there , WAS, a Flat Earth Society!

Like Foghorn Leghorn, says, It's a joke son.

I know.
It Is funny.

...until someone finishes off the whole bottle, trips and falls off the edge of the planet.



There's a guardrail now...


One man with courage makes a majority....

~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
IC-B

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272337 07/22/21
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Quote
To believe the Universe appeared from nothing takes greater faith than believing in Christianity.


And God making it out of nothing makes any better sense? Also attributing the creation of the universe to God doesn't really solve any grand mystery either. Because the next logical question simply becomes how did God come into existence.You are merely kicking the can up the road a little ways.

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: DBT] #16272450 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT

Well, it's not my truth.

So what do you believe? How do you think the Universe came into existence?

To believe the Universe appeared from nothing takes greater faith than believing in Christianity.



I think that quote came from someone else. You may have grabbed from the wrong poster. It's not something I'd say.

I made no claim that the universe came from nothing. I made no claim of knowing how it came about or if it did; it may be cyclic, a part of a multiverse or something yet unknown. I don't pretend to know.

There is no empirical evidence for either a static or multiverse. Science requires empirical evidence. They are just science fiction in the minds of physicists who disbelieve in God.

There is empirical evidence for a single point of Creation of time and ALL matter.

There is logical evidence for a creator. The evidence is for a supernatural Creator. For example,
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/wri...-of-god/the-kalam-cosmological-argument/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/wri...al-argument-and-the-anthropic-principle/

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: Willto] #16272455 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
To believe the Universe appeared from nothing takes greater faith than believing in Christianity.


And God making it out of nothing makes any better sense? Also attributing the creation of the universe to God doesn't really solve any grand mystery either. Because the next logical question simply becomes how did God come into existence.You are merely kicking the can up the road a little ways.

No actually, God does not require a prior first cause. The Universe is physical. The universe is subject to the laws of physics. A prior cause is not required because you or I want one. The physics says the universe requires a first cause.

God is by definition not subject to physics. He is not a physical first cause. God is a supernatural first cause.

There is positive evidence that the universe has a supernatural first cause. There is zero evidence the universe has physical fist cause.

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/wri...-of-god/the-kalam-cosmological-argument/
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/wri...al-argument-and-the-anthropic-principle/

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: Happy_Camper] #16272504 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper






happyC, do you really believe that this man debunked the flat earth theory?



A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272630 07/22/21
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The evolutionists would like to make you think, given enough time, clods of dirt can "Evolve", into a fine Swiss watch, running even.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: mauserand9mm] #16272642 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
[
Originally Posted by TF49


So.... are your thoughts real or not? Are you just evading here?




No, I’m part of your imagination, this isn’t really happening. smile

Thoughts are part of brain activity that can be measured in some form but not able to be accurately read/deciphered directly by measurement (yet?).


Originally Posted by TF49


You also don't really address the key thought ....."Simple idea…. Simple concept…… just because YOU don’t see it and YOU don’t experience it…. Does not mean it’s not there…..



I though I had but Hastings put it more succinctly (thanks Hastings):

“…you cannot expect someone to prove a negative.”


If you can’t accept this as a response then the argument isn’t going anywhere.




One thing I’d like to know TF49, if you don’t mind me asking, is how do you determine facts from fiction? (honest question)




I am not trying to prove a negative. You made the flat out declaration that God does not exist.

First off, you are wrong with that statement.

Second, there is no possible way that you can back up that foolish statement. You cannot possibly know that God does not exist.

It is a simple concept that you fail to grasp…..


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: DBT] #16272657 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
[/b]
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49



Makes me smile..... your "truth" is not offensive.....hardly, as it is not truth at all...... you are simply one who does not know whereof he speaks. What is a bit sad is that you seemingly cannot see truth or do not care to know the truth.

Perhaps some day you will.





Well, it's not my truth. I have nothing to do with what the bible, genesis in this instance, says or describes. I merely point to what genesis says and describes in terms of mornings and evenings of each day of creation, the day on which the sun, moon stars were created, animals, plants, etc.

It says what it says.

It's there for anyone to see and read.

The composition, the wording or the descriptions, are not being 'interpreted' by me.



Of course it is …your…”truth.” You clearly have not understood the concept and action of “eisegesis” and until you do, you will continue to post meaningless drivel like what we read above.

You seemingly refuse to comment on Psalm 91:4….. I suspect you do not want to increase your understanding and are content to wallow in your ignorance…..so be it.


It's not my truth. I neither add or subtract from what Genesis itself says, or what it describes.

That Genesis describes mornings and evenings of each day of creation is there for anyone to see and read. I have quoted the verses, changing nothing.

I don't interpret what is there for all to see.

It is you who wants to transform what Genesis says and describes into something else entirely. You try to make out mornings and evenings of each day of creation represent millions of years, when clearly a morning and evening of a day is simple that: a day.


Consequently is it you who is suffering from an acute case of Eisegesis.




Consider this: The text you are reading in the English language is a translation of Hebrew writings. The word that is translated "day".....the one your read in English... is a translation of the Hebrew word "yom
."

The word "yom" does not necessarily mean a 24 hour solar day. The numbered days in Genesis need not be solar days..... Yes, I know you want it to be 24 hours days.... that is your anti-Jesus bias manifesting in "eisegesis".... ERROR!

"Exegesis" is letting the text give you the information as it is contained in the text...without laying your own bias on it.


The word "yom" can mean an "extended time".... it can mean an "age" .... it can simply be some duration of time.


Here is a brief summary lifted from a Hebrew language scholar:

Genesis 1:5 "... This was the close and the dawn of the first PERIOD."

Genesis 1:8 "...This was the close and the dawn of the second PERIOD."

Genesis 1:13 "This was the close of the close and the dawn of the third PERIOD."

Genesis 1:19 "This was the close and the dawn of the fourth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:23 "This was the close and the dawn of the fifth PERIOD."

Genesis 1:31 "...This the close came, and the dawn came of the sixth PERIOD."


But I would wager that you don't really want to see... nor understand.... any of this... you love your own opinion and are comfortable in your bias. This is OK with me, but you are limiting yourself.


To close..... The creation story in Genesis is... in my opinion.... absolutely brilliant..... It was true and relevant 2000 years ago and it is true and relevant today. Science has changed, but the Genesis message has not. It is btw, exciting to see how scientific discovery fit right in the the the truth of the Bible.

It is more important to know and understand ..... THAT God created... rather than HOW he created.


btw... I remember reading that the universe had gone through many cycles of expansion and contraction... big bang... then expand... then gravity takes over and contraction .... and then another "big bang." Non-God believers would point to this scientific theory to just an "ever being universe" and God and the creation story was not needed to explain this physical world. But now, the prevailing theory seems to be one of continual expansion. OK... I wonder what we will know or think in 50 years?







Morning and evening are two different words. They are related to periods, specific periods. One period is when the sun is rising: morning. The other when the sun is setting: evening.

Which, in context, the verses specify the morning and evening of each day of creation. The context doesn't allow billions of years. Billions of years of evolution is not special creation. Genesis describes special creation.




Well, you are either totally ignoring the translation or “yom” issue…. Or you just fail to comprehend it.

Ok…. Carry on….


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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272744 07/22/21
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
The evolutionists would like to make you think, given enough time, clods of dirt can "Evolve", into a fine Swiss watch, running even.



LOL, that's a new one on me, one inanimate object evolving into another.

Which evolutionists espouse that theory?



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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272748 07/22/21
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Re: The Flat Earth Society? [Re: wabigoon] #16272753 07/22/21
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So, something someone made up, and attributed to someone else?



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