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People who knew much more than you included the letters of Paul in the Bible because they knew them to be true.
Peter recognized the validity of Paul's teachings and their harmony with those of Christ. Tyrone: More like people with an agenda included Paul's writings. And I'll not believe Peter endorsed the letters of Paul that are included in the bible. There is no indication that Peter ever read those screeds attributed to Paul. And 2nd Peter 3:15-16 are obvious additions to Peter's writing by a 3rd party. Peter and Paul knew each other quite well. They spent a lot of time in the same city, Rome. They conversed often. What verse did you find where Peter condemns Paul? That stuff about having an agenda is a real headscratcher. Exactly what agenda are you referring to? The only agenda that I know of concerning Paul is that of the Pharisees and Sadducees undermining his gospel back then as many the Messianic Jews /Hebrew Roots Movement does these days. Paul was the outspoken zealot among the apostles IMHO. I think that the devil focussed on him more because Paul was so effective spreading the great commission. Paul's gospel: Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-7
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 09/27/21.
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Now, RC and Happy, what about this scripture
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
I repeat,
the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Here it is Jaguar. Matthew 7 I always look to see who it's addressing because it makes a difference if Jesus is talking to born again believers or rebuking the devil, for instance. "15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." It sounds like someone I just asked if he was a pastor. Jesus addresses the people about false prophets here that are not his sheep. Jaguar, we know that they are unbelievers from the get go. Then we get to your verse. "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Jesus will hear their appeals of WHY THEY think they are deserving of salvation. Here's the list. A. "saith unto me, Lord, Lord" Many say they made Jesus"Lord of their lives", but that is not God's way of salvation. Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." God the Father made His Son Lord. Every preacher on TV would tell people something like "make Jesus Lord of your life and submit to His Lordship...." Or something like that. Rejected by Christ B. " have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name " That is what I have read and heard many times. How many preachers have you heard give some new prophecy about some politicians or world events, all in the name of the Lord. There's the warning and curse to them found at the end of Revelation. I'll let you look that up since I'm very tired right now....last couple verses. C. "and in thy name have cast out devils?" They could've been anyone who was from the sons of Sceva to Rosemary's baby. I've seen a video of all kinds of Demon possession in Africa and the pastor's had a false gospel. There are those who cast them out, but not saved. I listen to the gospel message and that's the only way Jesus accepts . He doesn't care if the person is an apostle of the apastolics or RCs. That never was the will of the Father for entry into heaven. D. "and in thy name done many wonderful works?" Do good works save anyone Jaguar? I think you know that they don't. CORRECT ANSWER IS: Titus 3:5. " Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us." Ephesians 2:8,9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. You see what they were trusting in? Their good works. The same can be said for "repenting of your sins" or baptism....good works.....Not acceptable to Jesus or the Father. I hope you are still with me. I'm about done. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." What is the will of the Father for our salvation? Jesus said, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
So what is the Father's will to be saved? The way we see Jesus today is by reading the Bible about Him. He is the rising Savior, the Christ, the Son of God. (Details in links below) It's midnight in my time zone and I'm zoned out. 😴 PM for discussion, questions etc and I will be there tomorrow. Have a good night my friend. HC Instead of eating a dick, can you try to suck start a 12 gauge? Maybe use your big toe if your arms aren’t long enough. The good news of my Lord Jesus Christ really offends you. Perhaps my Father will care to effect your life in such a way that you will not consider it coincidence, so you will consider Christ..... perhaps not. I will ask. If you keep inviting that demon to crawl back into you, he might eventually tell YOU to do just that. What? Are you capable of communicating like a human? I think it's far more accurate to say that people like you offend him. Up until YOUR buddy bubbaJ once again as usual started telling me to do what he is fixated on most all of us were talking quite humanely and decently. Then he adds that he wants me to commit suicide. That was not called for unless he either, A. Is demon possessed and has a demon that hates the good news of my Savior. OR B. He is a discusting excuse for a man. BuckHaggard, Why do you defend that wicked gremlin?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Surely only God knows, but I'm a simple man. You are correct, Sir. Only God knows. Only God knows if our intentions were genuine if and when we accepted the Lord, Jesus Christ, as our Lord and Savior and also that God raised Him from the dead.. He alone can see what is in our hearts, and if it is pure and true He will give us salvation. Neither will He remove it ever, as God does not lie.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Welcome to TN - patron state of shootin’ stuff
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Condemnation for the mere condition of a lack of conviction is petty and childish. I don’t believe you can make a biblical case for your statement. I think you’ve not got the right idea…..trying to keep it real simple…you have a relationship with your Creator or you don’t. If you don’t want a relationship with God, tragic, but that is your choice …..No relationship with God before your death…no relationship after your death. No relationship with the Creator for “eternity.” It's basic morality. We as human beings can see that condemning someone to death or torment on the basis of lack of conviction as excessive and morally and ethically unsound. We don't kill people over what they don't believe. Do we show a greater tolerance toward those of other beliefs or lack of conviction than God? Are we more reasonable than God? So, you simply regurgitate your previous thesis …. Ok…why do you ….apparently…. believe that “we don’t kill people over what they don’t believe? Look around… what do you see in the world? I suspect you are blinded. Surely you are that unaware….. well, maybe you are…. Further, why do you believe that ….apparently….that Jesus….would condemn someone for a “lack of conviction?” I don’t see anything in the Bible that says that people are condemned for having a “lack of conviction.” You are just making this stuff up. Btw…. When you stand before your Creator, you will have “no excuse.” Like I said…. If one does not want a relationship with his Creator, that is tragic. No relationship with God…before your death….. then no relationship with God after your death….. and no relationship for “eternity.” I'm not regurgitating anything. Making the accusation is your means of defense. You really do know that killing someone over their lack of conviction is an intolerant, immoral act. The act of an intolerant despot, a dictator. I wouldnt do it. Would you? Like I said…. You regurgitate and again avoid the real issue……so, I will ask it again …. Your implication is ….apparently….that God kills “someone over their lack of conviction.” This is just pure heresy….. and you don’t even see that. So, what’s your answer? A cogent response or just more mind vomit? And once again I point out that your accusation of 'regurgitation' is your means of defense. Lack of conviction means not having faith in Jesus. And what is the penalty of not having faith in Jesus or believing in the reality of the bible god? Is the atheist forgiven and granted salvation? You understand that atheists are justified by absence of evidence, and if evidence for the existence of a God or gods comes to light, they would be convinced. What then? Not to late for salvation once presented with the reality of God? Well, where to start? First, a lack of conviction does not equate to not having faith in Jesus. A lack of conviction is simply not being of acceptance of the truth about something. Where is the problem if one is not “convicted” of the truth about Jesus? The man “chooses” to reject the truth…he does not accept Jesus. The man rejects the truth. We see this all the time, not only in religion but also in our culture. The man prefers prideful, sweet sounding lies to the reality of truth. You are also wrong about atheists being justified by absence of evidence. This is simply wishful thinking and a childish hope for a “Get out of jail free card.” Won’t work…..Totally wrong. Men choose which way they go and they choose what to believe. God does the calling…. God presents Himself. The man has no excuse. The man can willfully reject the Son and willfully reject the gift of salvation. Judas knew exactly who Jesus was and yet never accepted the Savior. Yes, he “regretted” but he did not repent and seek the gift. There are many examples in the Bible of those who knew who God was and yet rejected Him. It is interesting that you state that an an atheist is “justified by absence of evidence.” This is simply your own personal opinion and with this statement you also presume to know how God will judge. Also, I don’t believe for a moment that you don’t believe in “God.” You are just in rebellion of God…. The One who loves you. This may change for you, I hope it does. Like I said…. Reject God and have no relationship with Him before death and there will be no relationship with Him after death…. No relationship for “eternity.”
Last edited by TF49; 09/27/21.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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The book of James is aimed at telling believers to do good works to make their beliefs come alive. It's for believers, not for telling non-believers that they can be saved by works. It's often misinterpreted that way. You don't think James the brother of Jesus might have written that to straighten out the hogwash that Paul was spewing? And then Jesus praised the church at Ephesus for expelling Paul. Then Paul bemoans his expulsion in his letter to Timothy thus verifying Jesus' message in Revelation 2. Wide is the gate and broad is the road. If something seems too easy it might be a lie. Especially when a dissatisfied deck hand starts countermanding the ship captains orders. Why are you obsessed with rejecting the writings of Paul? Are you a gnostic?
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Excellent question. Saved from sin and it's wages... eternal consequence. Everlasting spiritual death " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Roman s 6:23 The spiritually dead suffer torments. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Now you can see from the first verse I mentioned, "For the wages of sin is death ; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Roman s 6:23 We deserve to go to hell. God loves us, so He gave Jesus His only begotten Son to take our place. He suffered enough so that anyone who DECIDES to go to heaven through HIM will be saved from suffering forever. It takes you changing your mind and realizing that you can't add anything to the salvation by good works. What we could add amounts to a few filthy rags compared to Jesus' torments. The decision involves making Him the object of our trust/ faith/believe . "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." To make it very simple, there's a prayer to receive this gift located at the end of the links below. PM anytime or if you (or others) decide to make that decision. Ya have to love how you turn simple words into some form of a religion. Sin, a Greek Archery term, to miss the mark. it can also mean to be mistaken, to err, exactly what religious teachings are doing. Direct one to one translation and picking random definitions isn't a good way to translate according to the brilliant translators of the KJ Bible. Even the linguists and translators I know have agreed as it applies to any translation. The 400 year Bible in our language often defines key words. I never turned simple words into religion. I'm the first to tell you and anyone who will listen that religion has NOTHING to do with salvation. I shared something with Jaguar and apparently you don't agree. OK. I won't lose any sleep over that. You gave a list of problems you have with certain words, starting with sin. I don't even have to go to a koine Greek dictionary. James defines sin very well. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
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Campfire Kahuna
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The book of James is aimed at telling believers to do good works to make their beliefs come alive. It's for believers, not for telling non-believers that they can be saved by works. It's often misinterpreted that way. You don't think James the brother of Jesus might have written that to straighten out the hogwash that Paul was spewing? And then Jesus praised the church at Ephesus for expelling Paul. Then Paul bemoans his expulsion in his letter to Timothy thus verifying Jesus' message in Revelation 2. Wide is the gate and broad is the road. If something seems too easy it might be a lie. Especially when a dissatisfied deck hand starts countermanding the ship captains orders. Why are you obsessed with rejecting the writings of Paul? Are you a gnostic? He was referencing Carl Jung. That's as close to gnosticism as we get today.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Campfire Ranger
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Excellent question. Saved from sin and it's wages... eternal consequence. Everlasting spiritual death " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Roman s 6:23 The spiritually dead suffer torments. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Now you can see from the first verse I mentioned, "For the wages of sin is death ; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Roman s 6:23 We deserve to go to hell. God loves us, so He gave Jesus His only begotten Son to take our place. He suffered enough so that anyone who DECIDES to go to heaven through HIM will be saved from suffering forever. It takes you changing your mind and realizing that you can't add anything to the salvation by good works. What we could add amounts to a few filthy rags compared to Jesus' torments. The decision involves making Him the object of our trust/ faith/believe . "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." To make it very simple, there's a prayer to receive this gift located at the end of the links below. PM anytime or if you (or others) decide to make that decision. Ya have to love how you turn simple words into some form of a religion. Sin, a Greek Archery term, to miss the mark. it can also mean to be mistaken, to err, exactly what religious teachings are doing. Direct one to one translation and picking random definitions isn't a good way to translate according to the brilliant translators of the KJ Bible. Even the linguists and translators I know have agreed as it applies to any translation. The 400 year Bible in our language often defines key words. I never turned simple words into religion. I'm the first to tell you and anyone who will listen that religion has NOTHING to do with salvation. I shared something with Jaguar and apparently you don't agree. OK. I won't lose any sleep over that. You gave a list of problems you have with certain words, starting with sin. I don't even have to go to a koine Greek dictionary. James defines sin very well. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."So James says! And that Book was renamed or placed in the Bible by request of King James. What James says or doesn't say will not cause me to loose much sleep either. My salvation belief has nothing to do with the Vatican/Protestant teachings. I am quite aware of where those teachings originated from and I'll have nothing to do with them. You all can continue on with those teachings for as long as you like in my opinion, but I would be most cautious where those teachings originated from. Fear is not what Jesus taught. Just sayin'. My problem with certain words that you use is that a whole religion was built around those words when in fact, those words spoke truth, but not how you and religion use them. Like you, I lose zero sleep over peoples beliefs, in fact, I'm not certain why I even bothered to make multiple posts in this thread. A bit abnormal for me. I'm sure Jag would agree. I've read here in this thread to know that I would not follow what most have said. While there is a line of truth in those "teachings" there is also enough falsehood to make them null and void. Those ol' Nazi, I mean Ashkenazi and Khazar Jews are masters of deceit.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Excellent question. Saved from sin and it's wages... eternal consequence. Everlasting spiritual death " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Roman s 6:23 The spiritually dead suffer torments. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Now you can see from the first verse I mentioned, "For the wages of sin is death ; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Roman s 6:23 We deserve to go to hell. God loves us, so He gave Jesus His only begotten Son to take our place. He suffered enough so that anyone who DECIDES to go to heaven through HIM will be saved from suffering forever. It takes you changing your mind and realizing that you can't add anything to the salvation by good works. What we could add amounts to a few filthy rags compared to Jesus' torments. The decision involves making Him the object of our trust/ faith/believe . "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." To make it very simple, there's a prayer to receive this gift located at the end of the links below. PM anytime or if you (or others) decide to make that decision. Ya have to love how you turn simple words into some form of a religion. Sin, a Greek Archery term, to miss the mark. it can also mean to be mistaken, to err, exactly what religious teachings are doing. Direct one to one translation and picking random definitions isn't a good way to translate according to the brilliant translators of the KJ Bible. Even the linguists and translators I know have agreed as it applies to any translation. The 400 year Bible in our language often defines key words. I never turned simple words into religion. I'm the first to tell you and anyone who will listen that religion has NOTHING to do with salvation. I shared something with Jaguar and apparently you don't agree. OK. I won't lose any sleep over that. You gave a list of problems you have with certain words, starting with sin. I don't even have to go to a koine Greek dictionary. James defines sin very well. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."So James says! And that Book was renamed or placed in the Bible by request of King James. What James says or doesn't say will not cause me to loose much sleep either. My salvation belief has nothing to do with the Vatican/Protestant teachings. I am quite aware of where those teachings originated from and I'll have nothing to do with them. You all can continue on with those teachings for as long as you like in my opinion, but I would be most cautious where those teachings originated from. Fear is not what Jesus taught. Just sayin'. My problem with certain words that you use is that a whole religion was built around those words when in fact, those words spoke truth, but not how you and religion use them. Like you, I lose zero sleep over peoples beliefs, in fact, I'm not certain why I even bothered to make multiple posts in this thread. A bit abnormal for me. I'm sure Jag would agree. I've read here in this thread to know that I would not follow what most have said. While there is a line of truth in those "teachings" there is also enough falsehood to make them null and void. Those ol' Nazi, I mean Ashkenazi and Khazar Jews are masters of deceit. Are you a follower of Charles Russell aka Jehovah's Witnesses?
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The book of James is aimed at telling believers to do good works to make their beliefs come alive. It's for believers, not for telling non-believers that they can be saved by works. It's often misinterpreted that way. You don't think James the brother of Jesus might have written that to straighten out the hogwash that Paul was spewing? And then Jesus praised the church at Ephesus for expelling Paul. Then Paul bemoans his expulsion in his letter to Timothy thus verifying Jesus' message in Revelation 2. Wide is the gate and broad is the road. If something seems too easy it might be a lie. Especially when a dissatisfied deck hand starts countermanding the ship captains orders. Why are you obsessed with rejecting the writings of Paul? Are you a gnostic? He was referencing Carl Jung. That's as close to gnosticism as we get today. Carl Jung, the father of modern psychology? He was gnostic and spoke about an entity named Philemon. The other "gnostics" I think are those self professed that spent some years in a college with a department of philosophy and religious studies.
Last edited by Happy_Camper; 09/27/21.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, him. I can understand why a follower of Jung is anti-Paul. Paul wrote long and pointed about the gnostics.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Well, where to start? First, a lack of conviction does not equate to not having faith in Jesus.
It's not difficult to grasp. Faith is a conviction of truth. Those who have Christian faith believe in the reality of God and Jesus. Believing in Jesus is a conviction of truth, which is a belief. A belief and a conviction of truth is one and the same principle. Faith is a conviction of truth, which is a belief.....in this instance a conviction/belief held without verifiable evidence.
A lack of conviction is simply not being of acceptance of the truth about something.
You got it.
Where is the problem if one is not “convicted” of the truth about Jesus? The man “chooses” to reject the truth…he does not accept Jesus. The man rejects the truth. We see this all the time, not only in religion but also in our culture. The man prefers prideful, sweet sounding lies to the reality of truth.[/quotte]
The problem, as pointed out many time, is a lack of verifiable evidence to support a justified conviction of truth. What it says in the bible is no more an example of evidence to support its claims than what is said in the Quran or Gita, etc, etc, in regard to their claims.
[quote=TF49]
You are also wrong about atheists being justified by absence of evidence. This is simply wishful thinking and a childish hope for a “Get out of jail free card.”
Wrong. Justification requires evidence. Without evidence you have faith. This was understood a long time ago. "Faith is like a piece of blank paper whereon you may write as well one miracle as another." ~ Charles Blount (1654-1693 "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as a useful tool." - Seneca A person of reason considers the evidence and forms convictions based on the weight of evidence. And once again, if evidence for the existence of a God or gods comes to light, reason demands a conviction in their existence. To condemn someone for exercising reason is an grave injustice.
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Campfire Ranger
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Excellent question. Saved from sin and it's wages... eternal consequence. Everlasting spiritual death " For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Roman s 6:23 The spiritually dead suffer torments. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Now you can see from the first verse I mentioned, "For the wages of sin is death ; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."Roman s 6:23 We deserve to go to hell. God loves us, so He gave Jesus His only begotten Son to take our place. He suffered enough so that anyone who DECIDES to go to heaven through HIM will be saved from suffering forever. It takes you changing your mind and realizing that you can't add anything to the salvation by good works. What we could add amounts to a few filthy rags compared to Jesus' torments. The decision involves making Him the object of our trust/ faith/believe . "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." To make it very simple, there's a prayer to receive this gift located at the end of the links below. PM anytime or if you (or others) decide to make that decision. Ya have to love how you turn simple words into some form of a religion. Sin, a Greek Archery term, to miss the mark. it can also mean to be mistaken, to err, exactly what religious teachings are doing. Direct one to one translation and picking random definitions isn't a good way to translate according to the brilliant translators of the KJ Bible. Even the linguists and translators I know have agreed as it applies to any translation. The 400 year Bible in our language often defines key words. I never turned simple words into religion. I'm the first to tell you and anyone who will listen that religion has NOTHING to do with salvation. I shared something with Jaguar and apparently you don't agree. OK. I won't lose any sleep over that. You gave a list of problems you have with certain words, starting with sin. I don't even have to go to a koine Greek dictionary. James defines sin very well. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."So James says! And that Book was renamed or placed in the Bible by request of King James. What James says or doesn't say will not cause me to loose much sleep either. My salvation belief has nothing to do with the Vatican/Protestant teachings. I am quite aware of where those teachings originated from and I'll have nothing to do with them. You all can continue on with those teachings for as long as you like in my opinion, but I would be most cautious where those teachings originated from. Fear is not what Jesus taught. Just sayin'. My problem with certain words that you use is that a whole religion was built around those words when in fact, those words spoke truth, but not how you and religionuse them. Like you, I lose zero sleep over peoples beliefs, in fact, I'm not certain why I even bothered to make multiple posts in this thread. A bit abnormal for me. I'm sure Jag would agree. I've read here in this thread to know that I would not follow what most have said. While there is a line of truth in those "teachings" there is also enough falsehood to make them null and void. Those ol' Nazi, I mean Ashkenazi and Khazar Jews are masters of deceit. Are you a follower of Charles Russell aka Jehovah's Witnesses? Not hardly. Jehovah Witnesses's is a religion. Putting me in a box with a label is not wise. I prefer thinking outside the box.
Last edited by K22; 09/28/21.
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Jehovah Witnesses's is a religion. You're right. It is a "religion" and just that. Some would say it's a cult.
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Well, where to start? First, a lack of conviction does not equate to not having faith in Jesus.
It's not difficult to grasp. Faith is a conviction of truth. Those who have Christian faith believe in the reality of God and Jesus. Believing in Jesus is a conviction of truth, which is a belief. A belief and a conviction of truth is one and the same principle. Faith is a conviction of truth, which is a belief.....in this instance a conviction/belief held without verifiable evidence.
A lack of conviction is simply not being of acceptance of the truth about something.
You got it.
Where is the problem if one is not “convicted” of the truth about Jesus? The man “chooses” to reject the truth…he does not accept Jesus. The man rejects the truth. We see this all the time, not only in religion but also in our culture. The man prefers prideful, sweet sounding lies to the reality of truth.[/quotte]
The problem, as pointed out many time, is a lack of verifiable evidence to support a justified conviction of truth. What it says in the bible is no more an example of evidence to support its claims than what is said in the Quran or Gita, etc, etc, in regard to their claims.
[quote=TF49]
You are also wrong about atheists being justified by absence of evidence. This is simply wishful thinking and a childish hope for a “Get out of jail free card.”
Wrong. Justification requires evidence. Without evidence you have faith. This was understood a long time ago. "Faith is like a piece of blank paper whereon you may write as well one miracle as another." ~ Charles Blount (1654-1693 "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as a useful tool." - Seneca A person of reason considers the evidence and forms convictions based on the weight of evidence. And once again, if evidence for the existence of a God or gods comes to light, reason demands a conviction in their existence. To condemn someone for exercising reason is an grave injustice. Well, you are still wrong. To close, the opinions you espouse….. and your opinion is that the evidence does not exist. You are wrong on that. The evidence exists, but you discount it. You have blinders on. Nobody is condemned for exercising reason. Condemnation comes from rejecting God. In fact, clear thinking and unpolluted reasoning brings one straight to God. You also have muddled thoughts on ”faith.” Faith is indeed based on evidence….and experience….but you are not “convinced” and are simply rejecting the evidence to suit your own twisted views.
Last edited by TF49; 09/28/21.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,625 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,625 Likes: 1 |
It seems that some of you hold to works and laws as a way of being more holy, acceptable, righteous.
Do you imagine that you will stand before God and give a glowing account of those good things that you have done? What if you do 49 of 50 things but miss that last one?
If the salvation of Mankind required Christ’s death that would be considered the greatest price to accomplish that salvation. If that greatest price is what accomplished the gift of Life through Christ how in the world will your miserable world keep you saved, in fellowship, from backsliding?
Salvation is from outside us to us. Not within us. It is a free gift. If we rely on our actions to keep us where we need to be we might as well live like there is no tomorrow because we are already in hell. No man can make the cut.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,139 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,139 Likes: 4 |
When Jesus told the woman to go and "sin no more" and the Apostle Paul told the church " You are responsible for your own salvation", these two instances might put a little crimp into the idea of permanency. And to answer the 3:16 folks, better look real close at 3:5. You interpret any verse not as a stand-alone but by context and the whole of all scripture.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
When Jesus told the woman to go and "sin no more" and the Apostle Paul told the church " You are responsible for your own salvation", these two instances might put a little crimp into the idea of permanency. And to answer the 3:16 folks, better look real close at 3:5. You interpret any verse not as a stand-alone but by context and the whole of all scripture. I would agree with Chisos. Two things required before before one can jump on board with this saving stuff. Think very carefully what verse 5 is saying. Verse 16 uses the word (according to the HUMAN writers) begotten. It is also indicates that if you are not born of water (human womb) and if you are not born with a Spirit you don't make the grade. Some are not born from a womb, while others are not born with a spirit God may have loved the World, just not everybody in it. Many verses are stand alone and should be taken that way. Some can be read as context.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,507 Likes: 1 |
Jehovah Witnesses's is a religion. You're right. It is a "religion" and just that. Some would say it's a cult. All religious beliefs are cults by the very definition not just Jehovah Witnesses's. Find the root of Christianity and there you will find your answers.
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