Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Am I overthinking bullet construction?

Good to know about the 140 grainers. I can't say the 130gr BT's ever "failed" as everything was DRT. Maybe I'll use the cheaper 140 BT's as a proxy for 140gr AB (Accubond) development in .270...... this has worked in 30-06 where the .308 caliber ballistic coefficients (BC's) are the same between BT's and AB's ....but the BC's aren't identical between the .277 BT's and AB's so who knows.

Funny thing is .... for decades the Interlocks, Hot Cores, and Grand Slams worked fine ..... but after I retired I discovered the interwebs were sayin' there's a better mousetrap out there. LOL

My dad and I talk about deer rifles and loads all the time, and we've both seen a lot of things used over the years. We have about 80 deer seasons between the two of us. Neither of us has ever seen a problem with a typical cup/core .308win 150-168gr on a deer or a pig, even though .308 kills are better represented in our experiences than any other chambering. They just work, without beating up the shoulder too badly. Can't see a 7mm/162 being too much different.


And a 148lb doe is a whopper around here. I do love shooting and eating those long-headed watchdogs.....

It was a really big doe for our area too. My buddy has a rep for getting large does but this was his largest if I remember right. He has bagged a number of them in the upper 130's.

Eating wise it was the following Thursday I dined at his house where we enjoyed a sauce piquante made with big doe and pork sausage.

For myself I see fragmentation as an asset for some types of shooting and as a detriment for others. I want a bullet to break up if I shoot it into a varmint, or God forbid, if I have to defend my home from within it's walls. My AR and my AK are loaded with hollow point ammo except for my AR10, which is loaded with the same ammo I kill elk with. (But I live out in the country and I can shoot a 375H&H and not worry about hitting someone next door. The "next door" is 1.25 miles from me. ) But for varmint shooting I want bullets to break into course metal sand.

All my big-game rifles are loaded with ammo that gives me good expansion and full pentation. Bullet construction that gives me excellent performance from a 303 brit or 300 Savage will not do so well fired from my 300 magnum. Add to that the problem with different size game and radically different ranges and angles of impact.

So bullet construction can be over-thought, but in most cases it's not waist of time to think it over. The bullet is going to work well, or fail, depending on many factors, but the 3 that are most important are A, what speed is the bullet going at impact. B. What size is the target and C. what angles will you shoot that game from?

Some bullet like the Barnes TSX are simply great, unless the impact velocity is under 2000 FPS They are so-so from 2000 to about 1800 and much below 1800 they are basically a solid that won't pernitrate very straight. So fired from rifles that have high velocities they are one of the best all-around bullets you can get, but if I load them in my 300 Savage with a MV or about 2400- 2500 FPS the same bullet that's so good in my 300 mag now is only good to about 100-150 yards.

In my tight bored 303 Brit (.310" groove to groove) and both my 300 Savage rifles I actually prefer some cup and core bullets to Barnes. Because my 2400 to 2500 FPS rifles still give expansion to the ranges I can use those rifles with their iron sights. And let no one tell you different, a 303 or 300 Savage with a 180 grain bullet kills elk just fine out past 200 yards. They kill deer and antelope fine out to about 300. Maybe farther, but the longest kills I have made with mine were just a bit over 300 and the bullets exited and left big holes.

So the issue can become complex.

Matching the bullet to the conditions and the rifle is well worth the time you'd take to research it, but simply going to a tougher bullet is not always an answer to the correct question.

My current cartridges are:
222 Remington, loaded with 50 grain Hornady SX bullets
223s Loaded with 55 and 65 grain thin jacketed varmint bullets. (I do have some 60 grain Nosler Partitions loaded for deer and antelope, but so far I have not used many)
25-06 loaded with 120 grain Remington Core-Lokts made in the 1970s and some ammo loaded with 120 grain Nosler Partitions.
6.5X54M/S Loaded with 156 grain PPU round nose cup and core bullets. VERY good luck on deer and antelope with that bullet and perfect performance
6.8SPC Loaded with Remington 100 grain Soft Points
270 Winchesters Loaded with 130, 150 and 160 grain Partitions and also some with 150 grain Remington Round Nose Core-Lokts also made in the early 70s
30-30 Loaded with cup-and core 170 grain flat points, Remington, Speer and Sierra. All work just fine.
303 Brit. (I shoot .308 diameter bullet in this rifle and it's very accurate) 180 grain Remington Core-Lokts.
300 Savages M99 loaded with 150 grain Core-Lokts and I do have some 150 grain Partition for elk, but I reserve them for elk only) In my M81 Remington Auto I use 180 grain bullets, also cup and core.
308 Winchester. 150 grain Winchester Power Points (almost all gone now) and 165 grain Nosler Partitions for elk. For deer and antelope I have found the 150 grain Rem Core-Lokt perfectly OK.
30-06s 165 grain Nosler BT for deer and antelope and 165 grain Partitions for elk. In my Lever action M95 Browning I use 220 grain round nose for elk.
300 H&H 200 grain Nosler partition.
8X57 170 grain Hornady SST for deer and antelope. 200 grain Nosler Partitions for elk
35 Remington. 200 grain Remington Core-Lokts (will go to Sierras when the Core-Lokts are all gone)
358 Winchester 220 grain Speer FP and 225 Grian Nosler Partitions.
9.3X57s 250 grain Nosler Accubonds and 285 Grain PPU for elk, and for carrying with we have a lot of grizzlies, and 270 grain Speer Hot Core for deer and antelope.
9.3X62 286 Grain Hornady, 285 Gr PPU and 286 Grain Partitions.
9.3X74R 286 grain Nosler Partitions.
375H&H 270 grain Winchester Power Points and 300 grain Nosler Partitions.
404 Jeffery. 400 grain Norma soft points. Would be happy with Hornadys too, but have not found any.

Heavy for caliber cup and core. Expand well but hold together for thru shots. Edk

From 1954 though almost the mid 70's I used the Sierra Pro-hunter 150 gr. bullet in my 30-06 and during the latter portion the .308 Win. Guess I read too much Jack O'Connor and the bullets always worked just fine on deer. A few years into the 80's I bought a Ruger m77 RSI and the only bullet it wold shoot with at least hunting accuracy was the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core. The load has proven accurate in every .308 I've used.

I've come to the conclusion that although I really like the 7x57, the cartridge is a jinx, at least for me. I'll pass on the details other than two lost deer and a car wreck that damn near killed me, and yes the 7x57 was involved.

When I finally was able to afford a guided elk hunt I went with the .35 Whelen. Bullets tried were the 225 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip (I still have a partial box and the tips are light tan) the 225 gr. Accubond, the 225 gr. Partition and the 225 gr. TSX. The TSX won out and so far I've taken six elk with that bullet and one with the 165 gr. Accubond that was my back up rifle. The scope on my Whelen had turned toes up. Nice one shot kill. Bullets on elk not recovered.
Paul B.

In my Long Branch and my father's only #4Mk1 I run heavier ( 180,215) cup and core bullets at "regular " 303 velocities, but in my Ruger single shot I can run the Barnes 150 TSX's at 308 type speeds, and get really super accuracy and expansion/pass through's at well over 300 yards on deer.
The longest one was a hair over 370 yards with a heart shot, deer didn't go 20 with soup for lungs!
Cat

That is the advantage to Ruger's stronger action.

No promises, but when I was working up loads for the 30-303, I was pleasantly surprised with 180s and Re 17. If you have some, give it a whirl. It wouldn't usually have been my first powder choice, but that's what the range is for. I had some and tried it. There's no reason why it shouldn't work for the 303 British as well. As well, it produced a little over 2500 fps from a 25 inch barrel. The bullet, by the way, is a 180 grain Remington Core Lokt PSP. This combination works well on deer and probably moose.

This particular 5 shot group measured. 0.800 of an inch, but the average for the first 15 shots was .9 or .95. Under an inch at any rate.

I use mostly Varget or H4895 Steve, simply because both work great in all my. 303's.
The Ruger however really shines with 150 TSX's and H4895
When I was shooting a lot of C.I.L. 215's I was using Varget mostly.
Cat

No worries. They work too!

I've had only one bullet/cartridge/game combination that caused me to say, "no more." I used the 350 Rem Mag with the 200 gr. Hornady SP at 2650 fps to shoot three black bears, but no more. The first one I shot at 30 yards in and out ribs, and found it 20 yards away. There was a small blood trail leading to it. The second one I shot quartering away at 60 yards, and found no blood and no bear. It got into some head high grass in a swamp, and I figured I must have made a bad shot. The third I shot the same as the second. It went about 40 yards, but didn't go into the grass. The only blood I found was a small amount from it's nose. Again, no penetration. Maybe I was pushing that bullet too fast.

I haven't yet tried a bullet/cartridge combo that didn't work on a deer, but maybe I've just been lucky.

One of the biggest reasons I have used the IMR and Hodgdon powders almost exclusively for so many years , is they were the most readily available powders to me.
That is a very big consideration at times! LOL
I have acquired a bunch of RL 26 however, and am using that in my 244AI steel match rifle.
Cat

I know what you mean. We have always been the poor cousins to our friends down south. We have to go with what's available, that's for sure.

Canada isn't a big enough market to get some of the products available in the US. We lost a lot here in the late 1970s, when the FAC era arrived. Then Imperial closed its doors. Add the mounting shipping restrictions, federal laws in the States tightening since 9/11, and gun store closures up here, it can be a challenge to find some things. That's why I make my own bullets. It was need. I also order from the US through importers like Prophet River, or IRG.

Never seen a 1-10 twist on a 7mm Rem Mag. Usually 9.25 at the slowest.

I feel like a Big Stick quote would be applicable to your pointy head. Congratulations?

Try to keep up.

Remember this?


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7219652/1




P

I bet you sucked at dodgeball.

Hard to say with the two you didn't recover, who knows. I've shot only deer with that bullet in a 358 Win about 100 fps slower and worked well. I have a bunch of the 200 Core Lokts (SP and RN) and though generally not as accurate, I think they're a little tougher, at least they act like it.

The third one was an easy recovery making two of the three.

I would put the Nosler Partition up against any other bullet on the planet as far as the effectiveness of killing any animal. Caliber, weight, doesn't matter. Show me a better performer and I'll buy it.

Velocities?

http://findnchoose.net/bullet_rpm_calculator.html