Home Forums Birds & Dogs Turkey Hunting TSS facts verses fiction

I've got 3 boxes of new Longbeard XR 3" 1 3/4 oz sitting in front of me right now. Open one box, and 4 of them sound like they have a single loose pellet that rattles. I'm unconcerned. The instant that shell fires, that resin begins to particalize and turns into a fine dust buffer. It's not intended to come out of the muzzle as a single resin/pellet unit.

Here's a picture from another website.

http://www.talkhuntin.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39325.0;attach=49407;image

Here's the problem...some might not know that the Winchester Long beard is roll crimped. They use a plastic segmented over shot card.
Theory being that upon ignition the card will fragment and not effect the pattern. When I'm hunting I just pull my chamber and let the shells in the magazine ride.

Last year I found this shell just like you see it in my magazine tube after hunting season....it had been riding in the magazine tube through several kills.

A year or two back I shot a turkey at less than 10 yards though a hog wire fence....he was moving when he came by me. Boom knocked him down for a second...must've just raked his head with a pellet. He got up and toddled off...I stepped up to the fence boom missed him. Gun jammed up tighter than Dicks hat band. Tried to force the bolt closed on the fence post....no luck tired to force it open. Extractor came over the rim....pulled the barrel cut an ash stick and tried to knock the shell out....no luck.

I look back down the fence and the turkey is standing there next to a tree....I threw the gun down and jumped the fence. As I'm approaching him I'm thinking boy I don't want to wrestle a big gobbler standing up....I pick up what looks to be a stout piece of an old fence post. The closer I get I think he's going to run and I'm going to loose this turkey.

I get up on him and he's just standing there in kind of a half strut with his head draw down....he sees me and kid of wiggled his head. I come down towards his head and smack him with the stick...dang stick breaks and he's still standing there now I have about a foot long piece of wood. I smack him again and knock him down now the fight is on....I finally get a foot on one leg and another on his head.

Game over...nothing like a good turkey fight. Got my gobbler went back and gathered up the pieces of my gun put the barrel back on the bolt in my pocket and back to the truck we go.

It took some pounding (with a short 30 cal. Dewey cleaning rod I keep in the truck) to get the shell out of the gun destroyed the shell dumped shot and buffer into my action. A little cleaning and I was back in business. Destroyed the shell so I can only guess what happened.....shell was 3 deep in my magazine and had rode there for several kills. I'm guessing it was caused by a situation just like pictured above.

The turned to powder was his words so who know.
Back to the point, I do think the Long Breads are a hard shell to beat in 12 ga. I have not seen or know anybody that has used them in a 20 ga.

I bought some 20 ga. Longbeards when they first came out....they patterned okay.

Like I said earlier I wouldn't shoot them because I want at least 1200 fps. in a turkey load.

By the way, never heard of wrestling a turkey before, but glad you got the bird.

Just try some TSS 7.5s, 8s, or 9s at 1200fps or under, and you can save the sticks for beating yourself about the head.

I can’t count the turkeys I’ve killed, long before TSS came along…..and #5 lead was as big as I ever saw a need for. Usually #6s and even some HV 7.5s to keep density up after green out. Then again, I wasn’t body shooting them, or trying to kill them past 40yds, so maybe #4s was the way to go with that style.


….but since TSS has come along with the pattern density and mass it provides, I have trouble comprehending ‘wanting’ to use anything else. Even an ‘ice pick’ in the CNS will kill them faster than a buckshot elsewhere. I’ve never chased one a step with TSS in sub gauges, and I’ve never had to use a 3.5” shell to compensate for lack of sense or other endowment.

Last year, the 2 toms I shot with the 20 gauge 3" 1-1/2 oz #9 TSS were both bang flop at +/- 40 yards. Not even a twitch or tremor. I'd like to say it was the same with my nickle plated lead #5's in the 10 or 12, but it isn't. The 5's have still killed more than a few decades of toms, but kinda liking this smaller 20ga that acts like a bigger shotgun.

I had both the 835 and Benelli Nova that I had to get rid of due to the recoil. My VersaMax does a much better job of handling the bigger loads without pounding my shoulder.

You like your little balls I like my big balls.....

There's lots of things I tend to worry about turkey hunting. Like, what the hell was that noise I just made with my diaphram call? Or when my mask rides up my nose into my bottom eyelids when I'm trying to look down the rib. There's lots of worries. Not once have I worried about my Winchester XX #5 or #6 not working as it should.

If I try TSS, it will be for the purposes of moving down to a 20 gauge. That's it. I appreciate the denisty, range, penetration examples. But my lead ammo has never failed me. The only thing it tends to do is beat me up a little. But a few shots to pattern before season, and a shot or two during season, even that's truly a non-issue.

Exactly. I switched to a Winchester 37 because I got tired of carrying a Browning A5 around. Been using the same box of Winchester XX 5's for years. seems to work very well, but then I wouldn't shoot a turkey at 60 yards even if I could. Difference between hunting and shooting I guess

For the record, I’ve never even tried a TSS load in anything larger than a 20ga…..for ANYTHING, much less turkeys. I do have some of the old Remington tungsten 00 buck in 12ga that I keep for armored hog use ;)….but never tried it.
Some further premises:

—Harder shot deforms less, patterns better, and handles velocity better.

—Denser material resists external factors FAR more than less dense material.

—Lead is subject to deformation (especially above 1250fps), no matter what it’s plated with…..the epoxy binder in longbeards overcomes this somewhat, but it still doesn’t pattern as well as harder, denser shot.

—Pellet size is irrelevant to a CNS strike on a turkey, so long as there’s sufficient penetration.

—If load vs yardage penetration is sufficient, then pattern density is the primary factor with a turkey load.

—TSS #8s are likely the most versatile TSS size, and equals or outperforms #4/#5 lead loads. Pattern density is no comparison. Blows lead out of the water

—TSS #9 & #10 equal or outperform lead #6 loads.

—#7-10 TSS enable sub gauges to equal or exceed the lethality of lead 10 and 12ga loads.

The only logical argument I see against TSS is cost vs benefit, and for a turkey hunter, bitching about shell costs vs volume of shooting is idiotic. I’ve got more $ in single calls than a couple of boxes of TSS loads, and you can roll your own with next to no special equipment, at 1/3 the cost.
Nobody is saying you need or have to have TSS to kill a turkey, but it’s a better mousetrap. Some had rather use a longbow over a rifle for deer, too. Go nuts. There’s just zero reason for me to carry a 12ga as a dedicated turkey gun any longer, though I have plenty of them. I can dedicate a smaller, lighter sub gauge gun for turkeys, that’s easier to pack, carry, and shoot. Shot string doesn’t matter. I can wing shoot other stuff with the 12s, where it might matter, and the volume of shooting is 1000x higher. What’s not to like about a 5-6# gun that stones turkeys to 40+, and that you can let the kid/lady next to you get their first bird with and not bust their nose?

I think that TSS will work fine in a 12 ga but in my book the smaller ga's is where it really shines. With factory shells you are limited when it comes to the smaller ga. guns.
Sure lead will work and has worked for many many years but TSS has shown its worth to me in the 20 ga. I have never used it in any thing else. I know some use it to try and make long shots, but I went to it for the reduced recoil due to shoulder issues.
It took me a long long time before I would try it just because like others I could not wrap my head around the smaller shot size. I have a very good friend that I trust a lot and he finally talked me into it. That and I called in a bird for him and saw it first hand what what it did to the birds head and neck made me to try it. I have never looked back and I sold all my 12 ga turkey guns after that as well.

Don't you just love it....ain't no body here "body shooting" turkeys.....sounds like your shooting brush shots at turkeys....after "green up " you change shot sizes to "keep density up".

Say WHOooooo.....

"I can't count the numbers of turkeys I've killed long before TSS came along"....

Hard to believe ain't it....

I never knew you guys shot TSs because you were so well "endowed" and had such great "sense"....

(fact is I thought it was the other way around).

Here's you a tip go get you a hick'rey stick about a 1/2" thick.....(dont get one no bigger because you don't want to crack open that dense head of yours)

Lighly whip yourself over the head every morning and come to your senses.

The other thing I never worried about is how heavy my 12 gauge was. My A5 is just over 7 lbs unloaded, with a 26" barrel and Kicks choke. My Remington 870 SPS wasn't any bigger than a 20g version. Yeah, back in the day my Remington SP10 was a bear to carry. But I used that not out of necessity, but just becasue I wanted to. Gun weight with modern alloy receivered guns is, IMO, a non-issue for the vast majority of hunters.

As far as having "more money in some calls than a few boxes of TSS loads," just understand you don't blow through calls each season like you do ammo. I've still got my very first Lynch box call from the late 70s, and still use it. I don't still have the very first round I ever killed a turkey with. Call cost versus ammo cost: it's a false dichotomy.

TSS shows some ballistic advantages. No question. I agree with that. But TSS will never help me scout better, set up better, or call better. If I do those things well, I don't need more range or more lethality. Lead is perfectly adequate if you can bring a turkey in to a reasonable range. If you can't, maybe TSS is compensation for a differnt deficiency.

You’re just too stupid to quit digging. I’d offer you a bigger shovel, but you’d stick with a spoon, just for spite. You’re a rare kind of genius, that nobody else has ever heard of.

I’d tell you to get a 3rd grade physics tutor, but getting your teeth fixed is likely a higher priority.

Better get that hick'rey switch and tap yer hard head this morning Mr. Physics boy.....

Girly men like little girly guns....



From the dawn on shot gunnery it's always been about stretching the distance....

The TSS guys used to brag all over the internet about their magical long range kills when it became unpopular they changed their tune to it has "more lethality".

I don't agree with TSS having a Ballistic advantage or having more lethality....why because at 40 to 60 yards I don't believe ballistics play any part with a shotgun pellet....their assessment comes straight from the TSS Internet Handbook.

Bottom line TSS from the start was about shooting turkeys at longer ranges....if they didn't believe it kills turkeys further they wouldn't spend the money it.

I just chuckle when I see the TSS guy claiming "I kill all my turkeys at close range and I shoot TSS"....

Makes no sense to me if I claimed to shoot all my turkeys at 20 to 25 yards I would be shooting a dove load.

I just keep this going to see if you’ll up your level of stupid from your last post.

I keep thinking: there’s gotta be a ceiling to stupid.

You keep proving me wrong.

I guess common sense flies right over your head...