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Both of these have been mucked with

9x57 (not 9.3)

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

7x64

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I believe Simpsonltd has had a few cigarette rifles for sale in the past

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So my pre-war JP Sauer is a cigarette rifle?


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One of my 'cigarette' rifles, although I'm not sure if it actually meets the definition, no maker markings on it at all. Definite Bavarian flavor to it. I've managed to lose the pics if the other two.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Hook; 02/08/22.
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Well, I did find one poor pic of the "Kohle" rifle. Anton Kohle on the barrel. Looks to be a copy of a Type 'S' commercial Mauser with a shortened stock, probably due to damage to the front end at some point.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Adding THE NOTATION THAT THERE ARE NOW VERY MANY HANDSOME, REALLY HANDSOME RIFLES. NO ATTEMPT TO ADDRESS EACH POST, JUST AN 'INCLUSIVE' WOW! smile
Returning to "Cigarette rifles..."
1. The very term "cigarette rifle", a largely 'dead term'. As aptly noted by now those who even recognize the term itself, many evolved definitions.
2. My own prior comment, most further morphed and 'if ever' such category, no longer or good residual indications.
3. Bubbas, predominant thought not exclusive to N America, easily to be confused with the small home cellar industry as no exclusively distinguishable 'net', only predominant characteristics.
4. Referrals to pro quality such specimens, likely some few factually 'butts' in trade, but exception and perhaps such definition moved too far.
5. I don't know whether/to what extent the "Interwar" cottage industry rifles involving such commodity barter. I conjure small skilled workers 'making the most' out of the available. Such very much my above depicted AZ small ring mauser. I have 'some perhaps half dozen American bubba product assessed mausers an equal amount of pretty decent.

The fifties era as I was a teen, interesting. 'Opportunity' not, for me as seldom with more than the two nickels not making fire rubbing together! The latter seventies and eighties as shaking loose a lot of decent milsurps as the damn bursting with new & varied model multi factory guns, US & beyond shores, pushing prices down as creating markets for abandoning both milsurps and 'uncool' more staid rifles particularly including yet 'affordable pre 64 as well as interesting 'post' editions such as Model 88 Win. Good times, good prices and by then collecting without concerned reference to wallet! smile

Those were 'my days' my friends!!!
Best
John

Last edited by iskra; 02/08/22.
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In my opinion no. If the rifle is marked by a maker such as JP Sauer it would not qualify as a cigarette rifle. My thought is that these rifles were turned out by skilled craftsmen outside of or representing any establishment. The fact that they have no makers mark ( all of mine are scrubbed of most markings other than caliber) . It’s safe to assume by styling of the rifles they are not state side “bubba rifles”. Post war state side rifles generally have a different styling.

Last edited by yar; 02/09/22.
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This is my take:

Mauser based sporting rifles have several different categories:

First, there are Mauser Oberndorf Originals.

Second, various "commercial" Mausers built by a variety of firms that sourced commercial actions from Mauser. These were often examples that rivaled or indirectly competed with Mauser.

Next there were "Guild Guns" that used milsurp actions during the interwar period. The quality varied considerably with many being near the category 2 rifles and others being closer to "cigarette" rifles in workmanship, appearance.

Lastly, Cigarette rifles refer to those inexpensive post WWII builds wherein work was done in trade for Cigarettes and/or currency. These tend to be very pedestrian rifles, essentially sporterized milsurps in plainish stocks, most often using the original barrels with sporting sights added. An octagon or integral rib barrel would not qualify as a "cigarette" rifle.

There were post-war (WWII) builds that were essentially guild rifles but these tended to have replacement barrels, more refinement, and higher degrees of embellishment.

Last edited by z1r; 02/09/22.
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[Linked Image]

I have two 8mm rifles with swastikas. They both have good quality sanding and hot blue. They both have the same model stock.

The top gun is a 1940 JP Sauer that I paid $165 at a pawn shop in 11/5/2004

The bottom gun I have no records and no memory. As early as 2013 I was complaining I did not remember buying it.
I most likely got it off a gun show table for ~~$100 about 20 years ago.
But it is possible I traded cigarettes for it.


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Well that's some new and interesting knowledge for my old feeble mind to soak in. Never too old ta learn, if ya listen.

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I think z1r covered this subject pretty well. The first rifle I put up here, I think, is a very nice version of a guild rifle. It is very nicely made complete with a manual pop-up diopter sight on the tang.

The second rifle is likely an example of the commercial mauser. It appears to be a Type S copy with the end of the stock removed a few inches. The barrel is roll marked 'Anton Kohle, Epfendorf Germany (about 4 miles from Oberndorf) buchsenmacherei ( gunsmith) . I believe this may be a Mauser employee building rifles during his off time, or maybe after retiring.

Just got some pics of what I am sure is a real cigarette rifle. It is scrubbed of all markings except a few stampings around the recoil lug of the action's bottom. I owned it for 8-10 years, but it now lives in a good friend's safe. It is a beautifully done rifle, long and slender and very light for what it is. According to a German poster on the German Rifle Collector's Forum was quite likely has surplus machine gun bbl. Seems the Germans made Ks of them for fighter planes early on, but quickly switched to cannon so the 8mms were stockpiled. They were a favorite bbl used by the cigarette rifle makers. I AM SURE the white diamond was a 'bubba' addition after it came to the states. It is cheesy as hell, but it kinda grew on me and I decided not to remove it. Honestly, I should have stripped and refinished the stock. I would have looked much better.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Hook; 02/09/22.
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I have none of these particular type rifles but am quite enjoying this thread. Good to see you here Hook. Be well, RZ.

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You too, Doug!

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I like the pictures also!

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This is a most educational and entertaining thread . Now I know what a cigarette rifle is and some of the history of them. Years ago I recall hearing tales of the barter system in post WW2 Germany and how cigarettes and other stuff became a form of currency. I should have made the connection.

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Originally Posted by yar
I use the term cigarette rifle loosely. I’ve seen them as crude to elaborate but most of them if not all will have no makers name. They’re almost always done by skilled craftsmen. I have generally made it a point and only collecting the nicer ones over the years. They are easily recognizable to me when I see them. Most we’re done in the Post World War I and through the Second World War. If set up for optics they will almost always have claw mounts. The stocks are built for use with iron sights and have too much drop for optics. This can be corrected however with a laced on cheek pad. Most I encounter are chambered in 8x57 j or 8x57 JS. I find it to be a neat little nitch in collecting . The 3 I have pictured are just an example of many I have . ( sorry for the bad pictures)

yar, who makes a good leather cheek pad that actually laces on?


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Here’s my guild/cigarette rifle, just brought it home today. Checkering is a bit amateur hour, but the butterknife bolt is nicely done and the double set triggers have me thinking it’s an interwar piece. Definitely cool regardless

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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