I agree 10,000% that the correct high quality bullet is a top essential in the equation. If the "way imperfect", but "makable" 200 yard elk shot is presented, and three guys have the same rifle, scope, bullet, etc. standing side by side, and they are are equally skilled marksmen, but one guy has caliber .338 Win Mag, one has caliber .270 Win, and one has caliber .223 Rem, the great majority of you have said none of these guys has better odds at killing that beast. I understand the consensus. Riflehunter has stated a different opinion quite clearly. Thanks for all the feedback; it's very enlightening to pour over!
Elephant and FMJ's are not germane to the discussion
What do the Germans have to do with any of it?
They sometimes have a lot to do with my posts. When I proofread I sometimes realize my keyboard on my phone is still set to Deutch for my German courses and autocorrect is changing some words to German. So now you know if any get through. Lol
Yes, I restrict distance and shots when using a smaller cartridge.
That said, I have killed one buck with the "Texas Heart shot" when I jumped him out of a washout at 50 yards or so. I had a .30-06 with 150 TSX which went in the rear ham and came out the chest. I took a similar, sharp quartering shot with the same combo at 350. These are just two examples out of all the deer I have shot. Most of them have been broadside or just slightly quartering. I wouldn't have tried either of those shots with a .223, which is the smallest cartridge I have used. I have killed most of my Deer (MD and WT)/Antelope with a 7mm Rem Mag, .30-06, and .300 Magnum in that order. Most could've been killed with a much milder cartridge. I use the 7mm because I am the most familiar with it, and the .30-06 before that.
My son used my .223 and 62 TSX on a Muley doe at 225 this year. One shot, DRT. Deer was broadside, standing still and shot was behind the shoulder. Similar results in the past.
I agree 10,000% that the correct high quality bullet is a top essential in the equation. If the "way imperfect", but "makable" 200 yard elk shot is presented, and three guys have the same rifle, scope, bullet, etc. standing side by side, and they are are equally skilled marksmen, but one guy has caliber .338 Win Mag, one has caliber .270 Win, and one has caliber .223 Rem, the great majority of you have said none of these guys has better odds at killing that beast. I understand the consensus. Riflehunter has stated a different opinion quite clearly. Thanks for all the feedback; it's very enlightening to pour over!
The way I believe it works is like this. As your skill level improves with the more you shoot, the greater your success rate usually. Most of the time, this success rate will happen with any reasonable cartridge you use. But after a fair few successful shots on game, every now and then, you get an aberration. Perhaps 3 or 4% of the time. The bullet may blow up on a shoulder, or get deflected by bone, or fail to expand. Or the animal may move as you shoot, or for some reason the bullet doesn't strike the exact right place, or its a very difficult shot or its got a lot of fight in it etc. Its in these situations that some of the time, a bigger cartridge or heavier bullet or a little more velocity might make the difference in recovering a dead animal sooner rather than later, or not recovering it at all. But most of the time, these aberrations don't occur, so the tendency is to think there is no difference between using say a small cartridge compared to say a .270 or a .280 or 30-06.
Eskimos use the .222, .243, 22.250 from parka squirrels to 1,000 lb polar bears. I wouldn't, but so far, I haven't heard of anything going south for the Eskimo. 14 years in the Arctic....
A fellow worker once shot a grizzly with his .243 up there, for meat.. Then around the bend in the ravine came her two un-known 2- year olds - and the only way out of the ravine was over him. 10 round's expended, 2 dead bears, another badly crippled. Back to the 3-wheeler up on the rim for more ammo to finish the crip.
3 days later, when I was helping him process the meat and hides, he was still white.... and not just racially....but alive.
Deer? Gimme a break!
The only other time I've seen anyone turn so white on recounting his experience, was a friend who served in the Merchant Marine in WWII. His account of his passages across the Atlantic under U-boat attacks was rather graphic.
I havn't mentioned them. Walter Bell wrote about hunting deer as well you know. It wasn't all elephants and sun helmets.
Right but go back and reread the OP
I know what he wrote - there are also some others who wrote they wished no one would bring up WDM Bell in threads like this - but I am pointing out that Mr. Bell wrote specifically about successfully hunting deer with small calibers. Hence, he is relevant. Very relevant considering he owned a deer estate, and a .220 Swift Winchester Model 70. I am adding to the discussion.
Last edited by CarlsenHighway; 03/30/22.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
I've never understood why some don't just use a 22LR. It is absolutely lethal, small, light cheap to shoot.
Head shot, spine, lungs. It'll do it all. Shot placement trumps all, so I'm told.
Personally, I think the 22Mag does a bit better, but dead is dead. And this thread is about killing deer with the smallest gun.
Maybe I shouldn't advocate for such big guns, I have heard reports the 17HMR makes them lay down and die too. Quit that kind of stuff long before the HMR came out, so no in person experience with it.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I havn't mentioned them. Walter Bell wrote about hunting deer as well you know. It wasn't all elephants and sun helmets.
Right but go back and reread the OP
I know what he wrote - there are also some others who wrote they wished no one would bring up WDM Bell in threads like this - but I am pointing out that Mr. Bell wrote specifically about successfully hunting deer with small calibers. Hence, he is relevant. Very relevant considering he owned a deer estate, and a .220 Swift Winchester Model 70. I am adding to the discussion.
Yep, I'd say you're right there in the main part of the thread.
Enjoyed reading your hunting. Good to see how others do it.
A 243 is probably the ideal deer cartridge and at reduced ranges and with carefully chosen bullets a 223 is adequate. I tend to hunt with something bigger, usually a 308. But that is because most of the places where I hunt overlap with black bear season and bear are more common than deer in some of these places. A 243 may be adequate for bear, but is not ideal
Last edited by JMR40; 03/31/22.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
