Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 338/06 Rebore

I hate to get into this here with you, because it is going to high jack the thread. Since it's been discussed, I'll oblige.

I have enough experience with both. The information is out there if you care to search my history.. Albeit not a lot of killing experience with the .338-06 but plenty with the 30-06. But since this is the internet and I can make my resume' what I want it to be regardless of truth, I'll just stick to popular trends since you are wanting large sample sizes...

How about we discuss popular sales of rifles chambered in these such calibers? I guess the over loading number of factory 338-06 rifles available to the consumer and the amount of factory ammo available would give the 338-06 A-Square a strong argument to it's improved killing prowess over the 30-06. So much so, I can't walk into a gun store and find a .338-06 A Square anywhere and haven't been able to for the last 25 years I've been walking into gun stores the world over keeping track of such... Don't think I've ever seen one in any gun shop ever. The one I had was a custom built on an O3-A3. It's a shootin' sumbeetch and still available to me anytime I want it. After crunching the numbers and studying the on paper ballistics of both, the 338-06 doesn't really offer anything over a 30-06. The world of gun and ammo sales kinda confirms it.... If it was an improvement, they would be a little more available and popular, don't you think?

Now lets talk about the amount of kills the world over both have chalked up... How many deer, elk, moose, bears and other animals has the 30-06 been responsible for taking over its years of service? How many deer, elk, moose, bears and other animals has the 338-06 taken over it's years of service? Do you honestly think it's even 1% of the total of the 30-06? Circling back around to the availability, do you think there is even 1% the amount of 338-06 rifles available over 30-06's?

One more question..... Do you think there is an animal the world over that would be able to tell the difference between a 30-06 launching 200 grain Nosler partitions over a 338-06 launching 225's? or 220 gr vs 250 gr?

Now don't get me wrong, the 338-06 is a beautiful thing. It is an absolute hammer, very efficient, seem to be inherently accurate and all around a very versatile and great chambering that won't bounce off of anything.. But so is the 30-06.

Like JPro said... "Rifle loonies and car guys live in a world where logic is subjective." Thinking the 338-06 really offers anything "logical" over the 30-06 is very subjective. But so is 90% of all the other chamberings available. That's all I was getting at...

Todd

Justahunter,
Not trying to start anything. I was just curious of your experience. I have shot quite a few deer and elk with 200 Hornadys and 210 Partitions out of 2 different 338-06’s I have owned. Still have one. Personally, I think the larger bullet diameter does “punch “ harder.
I have found that a lot of cartridges and bullets far outperform what paper ballistics indicate. And if a cartridges sales and availability are indicators of effectiveness then the 6.5 Manbun must be the best ever.

Ruger all the way, i bought a rusted bore pre-64 270, sent to JES for 338-06 rebore, it sits in a pacific research stock, all metal is cerekoted, Smith installed a stainless trigger free of charge, couple wraps camo tape around the scope tube for the muzzle with Butler Creek cap for the front and that things set for any weather condition or game, 250gr A-Frames at 2550 fps will get a lot done, or load 210gr TTSX to 2800 fps for flatter trajectory and carry over any elk mountain, the rifle with six rounds on board only weighs 8 lbs.

Justahunter,

How do these 275 grain swift-a frame handloads compare to a 30-06? Same same?

I can't argue with any bit of that. I pretty much 100% agree with all of it.

Todd

Mine runs a 275 grain Speer at 2375. My 06 runs a Barnes 250 at 2320. On my 12” ar500 plate the difference is notable.
When I can shoot again I’ll video the two

I have 100% no experience shooting or hunting those out of the 338-06. Only 250's. But it is my opinion that all else equal, a 220 out of a 30-06 will have the same effect. In other words, say you are walking out with open sighted loads in Alaska bear country and an aggressive bear charges you.. It is 6 one way half a dozen the other what load/rifle combo will be more effective. I don't personally think there is enough difference to really make a difference if the bullets hit exactly the same path and all else is equal.. Do you? Now put that bullet in a .338 Winchester Magnum launching 200-300 more FPS faster and I think there is some validity on which has more power to matter.

Todd

Got it Todd, thanks. Ill try to sell this here 338 rcm and go back to my 30 cals.


55 grains more of bullet weight and an expaned diameter far larger than the 220/.308 partition means nothing.

Oh come on now, don't get testy or be obtuse. Serious discussion, leave your emotions out of it. Seriously, I think you have some awesome experience and knowledge to share. Educate me. What does 55 more grains of bullet weight and "expanded diameter far larger" mean if both bullets travel the exact same path? If it was so much greater of a difference, why isn't the 338-06 more popular? I mean it kills better without much more recoil. Why didn't it take off? If that bullet weight and larger diameter really means something, why aren't all these "Alaska" model factory guns factory chambered in the 338-06? Why are most all of these type of firearms chambered in the 30-06 and 338 Win Mag?

Todd

I called JES regarding a possible 358 Winchester rebore. He advised that as long as he had twenty thousandths of an inch over the bore he could swing it. Just give him a jingle and he’ll either pick up the phone or call you back and give you the run down. Very down to earth guy. I’ve heard nothing but good about his work. I rebarreled a Ruger M77 from’06 to 35 Whelen with a same contour and length barrel. I love it and would do it again. Just keep in mind that Ruger 77’s aren’t light. So, I’d pick the lighter of the bunch and go with that. My 35 Whelen with heavy loads flinging 250’s at 2700 doesn’t kick any more than a stout 30-‘06. Good stock and good recoil pad are everything.

I’ve noticed a difference between the 30-06 I had on the very same rifle and the 35 Whelen I turned it into. A .358” 250 grain bullet going 2650 fps makes a bit more of an impression on the black bears and deer that I have shot with it. I didn’t light load the ‘06 either. Nothing but 180 or 200 grain bullets at or near max. If a 338-06 is no better than a 30-06 why not sell your’06 and get a 270 or 280? Same difference.

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I’ve noticed a difference between the 30-06 I had on the very same rifle and the 35 Whelen I turned it into. A .358” 250 grain bullet going 2650 fps makes a bit more of an impression on the black bears and deer that I have shot with it. I didn’t light load the ‘06 either. Nothing but 180 or 200 grain bullets at or near max. If a 338-06 is no better than a 30-06 why not sell your’06 and get a 270 or 280? Same difference. [/quote]

Good argument. So are you saying that the old 30-06 loaded with 200 grainers would not have killed the black bears and deer that you killed with it being a .35 Whelen if all hits were exactly the same?

For the record with me, there is nothing I wouldn't hunt with a .270 Win with a 150 Nosler Partition that I wouldn't hunt with a 338-06 and a 225 gr Nosler Partition. I think the end results would be much the same. That's what I'm getting at really. If I lung shoot a moose with a 150 Nosler Partion and lung shoot the same moose with a 225 Nosler Partition, I still lung shot a moose thats going to die quickly.

Todd

Great conversation. Here's one I'll throw out there, is it bullet expanded width that shows the harder hitting effects or just the bigger cartridges.

My little snippet, I love the 338 Win Mag and Whelen, thought they were the cats meow cause it seemed like stuff didn't wander about after shooting, they kinda got weak knees and croaked. Fast forward a few years to the 7 Mashburn with 175 Bitterroots. Those suckers planted elk very quick, if not faster than my beloved 338's and 35's. On recovery, if you recovered one of them would be 3/4's of an inch or larger buried in the far side. Most of the bullets I used in my 338 or 35 went that wide...

I kinda started to believe it was the massive frontal area of a great bullet that really did some "wow" to em.

I think Mainer has mentioned the big ol Swifts and similar putting the skids to big bull moose. Alot of frontal area on one of them, along with big penetration. He has showed them big recovered slugs and they're impressive.

The 220 PT from the 06 is a wonderful penetrator but I don't know if it'll muster up the frontal area.

Not arguing with any of you all cause this stuff is good [bleep], and it's cool to see others view points.

Gunners 250 A-Frame load should be a beast as well. I can't imagine the swatch of destruction it'll lay down.

beretzs,

Great post.

Todd

Still haven't gotten around to making a 338/06, but having shot a huge pile of animals with various 30 cals/7mms/270's and big pile of animals with 358 bores...to me it is very obvious that there is a huge difference in effect between the 30-and-unders and the .358+ bores on every species of game from whitetail up to elk/bull caribou size.

I've hit a few animals with 7mms and 30 cals which dropped in their tracks and a few with .358+ bores that did not. Stuff happens.

But once you get a big enough sample size the difference is not subtle. At reasonable hunting ranges the medium bores hit much harder. Exactly as Beretzs said, animals tend to either drop straight down or maybe just stagger and act confused. What they very rarely do is the pedal-to-the-metal death run that they nearly always do when you hit them with smaller calibers. I'm sure if you had a small sample size and didn't match the bullet to the animal, maybe you could come to a different conclusion.

There is also a lower velocity threshold where the medium bores stop having that effect (and you get the death run like you'd get with any other caliber) but it seems to vary bullet to bullet.

Edit: no flies on the 308 200gr partition; I just had a WSM throated long for that exact bullet. But it don't make a 30-06 into a medium bore.

I mostly agree with all that has been discussed here. I’m still in the school that I don’t think there is enough killing difference between the medium bore 06 based cartridges to really matter in the big game woods. Big bear country maybe but elk and moose, not so much. I personally think that’s why the 30-06 still remains and always will be king over all of them.

I also need to admit that after spending years in the Elmer Kieth camp (where most of you all in this discussion seem to be) I have transitioned to the O’Connor/Weatherby camp over the years. I’ve personally seen super high velocity “shut off more lights” in the hunting woods than frontal area..

How boring would it be if we all saw it the same?

Todd

Doug, the owner of the hardware store in talkeetna shot a fella buy the name of eric sqaure through the chest with a heavy 30-06 remington corlokt.

Missed his heart. Now middle to late aged anchorage fellas are moderately tough, but i dunno about compared to some of my local bears.

Doug made a good shot and Eric made a full recovery.

Todd, im gonna check with eric and see if hes willing to test a 338 275 grain a-frame in the exact same spot.

Mainer,

The problem there was the Remington corlokt… don’t blame that full recovery on the 30-06 when corlokts are in the equation.. I thought we were all better than that…

Todd

That’s funny right there. Don’t care who you are

Good argument. So are you saying that the old 30-06 loaded with 200 grainers would not have killed the black bears and deer that you killed with it being a .35 Whelen if all hits were exactly the same?

For the record with me, there is nothing I wouldn't hunt with a .270 Win with a 150 Nosler Partition that I wouldn't hunt with a 338-06 and a 225 gr Nosler Partition. I think the end results would be much the same. That's what I'm getting at really. If I lung shoot a moose with a 150 Nosler Partion and lung shoot the same moose with a 225 Nosler Partition, I still lung shot a moose thats going to die quickly.

Todd[/quote]

IME everything that I have shot with several 30-06’s have ran a little ways before expiring. Be it with 150’s or 220’s. All dead nonetheless. So far my Whelen has knocked everything over DRT or within thirty feet. Having watched the animals I have hit with the Whelen v any ‘06I’ve owned the Whelen has a noticeable more effect upon impact. Last season I literally watched two of the deer I shot roll over on impact. The bear I shot were all DRT. Is it the caliber, the bullet/load combination, luck? I don’t know but it sure works for me. I built it and load it to knock the hell out of angry bears over hounds and to the pleasure of the hounds men I run with it does just that. If I had to hunt a 30-06 the rest of my life I would probably do it without too much bitchin’ as it’s a fine cartridge that I shoot well and have had good results with. But, I sure dig the Whelen and it’s effectiveness on deer and bear. I almost went the 338-06 route on that build and considered AI versions of both. I’ve always liked the 35 Whelen in it's regular dress and went that way.