Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir Russ using the 550-gr Woodleigh RNSN at 2100 fps on Sambar deer seems appropriate as heck to me.
I have taken ground squirrel with the old Hornady 500-grain RNSN at 2150 fps and the squirrel did not complain a bit.
The deer won't either.

Headsup on a handy, cheap and available, bullet sizer from Lee, thanks to Sir Jerry.
It would be great for various lead bullet sizings in the .458 WM, from paper-patched slicks to hardcast-gas-checked-PC-painted.
It can also be used to transform .509" to .505" brass Barnes Banded Solids, see here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...bullets-from-509-600gr-bbbs#Post17186425

Just to get a pic in at top of this page, a buffalo bullet with a little less recoil than the 550-gr Woodleigh:

Thanks Fury01, it'll be a tough decision, just wish i knew what the layout looked like before i left, and yessir, i unscrew the aperture at dawn and as dusk nears hunting the old receiver peep rifles, even '94 and '86 lever guns, if time allowed after spotting an animal the bino/range finder id would be very nice, African animals can sure be twitchy at times ; ]

Sir Ron, that 458 B&M is the real big brother the little 358 Winchester should have had all along, neat little Hammer in a small package.

Sir Jerry,
Note that the 450-gr CEB Safari Solid is a better option than the 400-grainer designed for lever actions.
The CEB brass 400-grainer wastes case capacity in both .45-70 and .458 WM,
and does not take advantage of the magazine length allowed by SAAMI COL.





.458 WM+ loads are impossible with the "funny-banded" CEB 400-gr brass FN.
The funny-banded 450-grainer with a longer nose will barely allow a COL of + 3.340".
The 450-gr CEB at +2350 fps with COL of 3.380" is very functional in the average .458 WM rifle.
The 450-gr CEB brass FN is about as good as it gets for a SAAMI .458 WM.
MIB terminals here:



The 400-grainer was tested at only .45-70 Gov't. equivalent velocities:





Note that the bullet stayed straight.
Some theoreticians say that the shortness of nose projection of the bullet may limit penetration when compared to longer nose projection ...
I will not accept that until it has been tried with low drag PDR bands of Hammer Bullets, on an FN solid.
I think even the CEB 400-grainer would score better at higher velocity.

75 grains of CFE223 behind the Hornady 480 Gr DGS all on top of Federal 215 primers at 458 win magazine length. What velocity would be expected?

OK....Its been years since I've owned a 458 WM....went and looked at what powders I have and really don't have the best to use what I've read hear....AA 1680 and IMR 4198 but have pounds to burn....only bullets sitting on the shelve I'am going to shoot are Hornady 250 gr. Flex-Tip for playing around with paper and Cutting Edge Bullets 258 gr. for hunting.....
Was thinking that in Ohio you can use any 35-50 caliber straight wall cartridge for deer hunting.....458 WM fits the bill....

What are some loads for both powders ?

Sir John,
I am going to guess that would duplicate classic 450 NE ballistics in the 2150 to 2200 fps MV range with a 24" barrel.
Pressure would be quite low, plumb tropical.
CFE223 is pretty slow for the .458 WM but energetic and cleans the barrel nicely, and your brass would last forever.
QuickLOAD is quite useless in dealing with a .458 Winchester Magnum throat.
Proof is in the tasting of the pudding.
Have you chronographed that load yet ?

coyotewacker,
King .458 Winchester Magnum requests your service as a Knight of the Square Table.
What is your Sir Name ?



IMR-4198 substitution for H4198 would not be too far off and that was covered not too far back with the 250-gr Hornady Monoflex.
I think Sir Michael of MIB likes AA-1680 for the 258-gr CEB. I'll dig something up on that.

My apologies I meant AA2230!

Well then:



You can seat on the factory cannelure for a COL of about 3.200", and 75 grains of AA-2230 will probably get you over 2200 fps.









The 480-gr DGX is an accurate bullet, and AA-2460 is another good powder to use with it.
Kissing cousin to AA-2230:



That is a 3-shot group at 50 yards. The DGX can't be all bad.
Taken to extreme in a Ruger No. 1 with 24" barrel,
480-gr DGX-Bonded loaded to 3.560" COL with 83.0 grains of AA-2460
5 shots at 80 degrees F, LabRadar: 2408, 2408, 2406, 2404, 2402 fps MV
mean = 2405.6 fps
ES = 6fps
st.dev. = 2.6 fps for the 5 shots

Agreed Sir Ron, funny driving band locations for max efficiency in the 458 WM+, lever gun yes, and even some slow [20] twist double rifles, the 400 safari solid would be perfect as iirc most of the .458 cal 480gr Woodleighs which are a Kynoch bullet copy externally with BOL's of 1.240-1.310"...............the 400's at 2250 ish should punch a respectably deep hole provided regulation is there.

Maybe the men at Hammer will see to it that a proper 400gr solid comes to light.

I put out a request for IMR-4198 and AA-1680 loads with 250gr Monoflex and 258gr CEB in the .458 WM & .458 B&M at the B&M Forum.
Will see if I get a response.

Meanwhile, I will say that I tried AA-1680 with the 300gr Sierra ProHunter, a very soft bullet.
Results for that bullet with 69.0 grains to 76.0 grains were kind of wild.
76.0 grains got it over 2800 fps MV at which point the bullet vaporized in my muzzle brake and destroyed a chronograph.
One bullet before that actually made it to a 25-yard paper target as lead dust and read 2798 fps over the chrono before that last bullet.
Generally wild extreme spreads.
Best 3-shot load was 73.0 grains of AA-1680 giving 5-yard chrono readings like this: 2715, 2715, 2726 for ES 11 fps, st.dev. 6 fps.
It might be a better powder for the lighter 250-258-gr bullets.
I never worked with it again,
but it might deserve a trial with 250-ish grainers.
I would start with 66 grains and work up to 73 grains.
Also, a standard large rifle primer might be tried instead of the F-215 magnum primer I used.

See mid page 104 of this thread for my preferred 250-gr Monoflex loads with H4198 and AA-5744.
Those would probably work well with 258-gr CEB.

Sir Jerry,

I see you get it. A proper 400-gr FN of copper or brass at 2500 fps will do all a solid will ever need to do.

Meanwhile, that CEB .458-caliber 575-grain Lazer at 2000 fps from a .458 WM with 1:10" twist would extend the hunting range.
I want a Ruger No. 1 with 10" twist along with choice of muzzle brake and suppressor.
Gotta think about what is left of my ears in old age.

RC, I’d bet the bonded 300 grain Speer would be the trick in the 458. They are pretty tough bullets for what they are. Way back when they took 2300 in a Marlin pretty easily. They’d likely be dynamite in a 458 a few 100 FPS faster

You bet Sir Ron, 400gr FN solids at 2500 fps is a whole different ballgame, should be outta sight penetration especially with the added stability from being only 1.250 inch long, damn, just dawned on me, 250 to 600 grains, dont think there is another caliber with such a wide bullet weight spread as .458, garden rabbits to elephant, you could always make that 10 twist #1 a 15lb back porch picnic table vermin exterminator, that would dampen recoil and wouldn't need a brake, 30 inch bull barrel should do it, maybe pac-nor has something.

Big B, good point, back in the day i couldnt tear up either 300gr Speer unicor in a long barreled 44 Ruger or a 454 Casull, i ran those slugs into all kinds of crap, much tougher bullet than the 300gr FA factory loaded bullet, it;s nice to run into reasonably priced bullets that are bar brawler tough.

Yeah, I did some testing in water jugs and the Speer was right behind the 300 Partition. I still have a couple 100 of them 300 .458 Partitions but haven’t tried them yet in the 458. I’d bet those would shock folks how well they penetrate. They’re a demon in the 45-70. I used the Speer to work up loads and match them to Partition to save what I did have.

I’d bet you could put a round ball in the 458 and it might even be a little lighter and a decent little plinker too.

Great suggestion on the Speer .458/300-gr, Sir Scotty.
Probably more accurate and way tougher than the Sierra HP.
The H4198 data would be good with the Speer.
My bad with the Sierra 300-gr Pro-Hunter hollow point exploding bullet:





So next I tried AA-1680 and only got to 76.0 grains where the bullets started vaporizing
one on the way to the 25-yard target at 2798 fps instrumental,
the second one killed the instrument at 5 yards.
I did not shoot the third one I had loaded with that charge.
76 grains of AA-1680 is about 95% LR/net fill, without use of drop tube, for 0.34" seating depth.

I can't say I am surprised by that Sierra myself RC. The 300 grain Hornady isn't all that much tougher either. The bonded 300 grain Speer might be fun to torment.

I haven't had the chance to run the 250 Hornady MonoFlex into anything yet. Any of you all have any experience or see what it expands like?

Sir Jerry,
Hell yes on the vermin exterminator, but maybe just 28" barrel and 10 pounds to make Creedmoor rules,
with this bullet from CEB:









SealTite band hanging out into throat, 10" twist good for 1300 fps to 2000+ fps ...
That dog would hunt too, as well as sit on a picnic table.

I haven't had a 458 for some time, but just picked up a Voere in 458....classic Mauser-action safari rifle.