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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Satan's game is to get you to believe in anything that's against Jesus. These 'ghosts' are his demons, sent to deceive you. Yes, many times people have seen spirits, haints, whatever you want to call them, but none of them are departed souls. They're Satan's followers deceiving you.

RC,

What’s the deception, and if it’s from Satan, why?

A person sees something, call it a ghost or spirit. The spirit/ghost doesn’t say or do anything. The person who saw it only has a story to tell that they saw something.

It would be different if the ghost/spirit said, go kill your cat and drinks it’s blood. Then sure, maybe it’s a demon. But just a sighting of a something that didn’t speak - To me that’s reaching to say it’s 100% satanic.

Change my mind.

🦫
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead. If Satan can convince you that there there is, then he's convinced you that Jesus was wrong, that he's imperfect, and he is not God.
The case of Samuel appearing to Saul was a special case. As Jesus said, with God all things are possible. God has the power to make the impossible possible. He impossibly brought Jesus back from the dead, did he not? God also impossibly made dead believers appear when Jesus died on the cross. They were seen walking around Jerusalem. We aren't given any information what that was all about other than it happened. It was another special case of God exercising his infinite power to do the impossible.

Then couldn’t God be exercising his infinite power, doing the impossible for someone who sees something, or hears a voice from somebody they once knew…Like a child, a parent, grandma, spouse, etc…?

🦫
Where is Happy Crapper to splain all this chit when you need him?


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead.
What was that passage(s)?
TIA


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Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Any Roman Catholic believers that there is no communication between the living and the dead (Excluding Jesus and the Apostles that is)???

If so, do any of them believe in the Virgin of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Fatima, or the Virgin of Lourdes?

Believe in Visions of the Saints?

Quote
“That Prison of Suffering”—St. Maria Faustyna Kowalska

St. Maria Faustyna Kowalska, most commonly known as St. Faustina, was a Polish nun who claimed to have had a series of visions that included Jesus, the Eucharist, angels and various saints. It is from her visions, recorded in her diary, that the Church received the now popular devotion the Divine Mercy Chaplet. In one entry, she tells of a vision of purgatory:

“I saw my guardian angel, who ordered me to follow him. In a moment I was in a misty place full of fire in which there was a great crowd of suffering souls. They were praying fervently, but to no avail, for themselves; only we can come to their aid. The flames, which were burning them, did not touch me at all. My guardian angel did not leave me for an instant. I asked these souls what their greatest suffering was. They answered me in one voice that their greatest torment was longing for God.



“I saw Our Lady visiting the souls in purgatory. The souls call her ‘The Star of the Sea.’ She brings them refreshment. I wanted to talk with them some more, but my guardian angel beckoned me to leave. We went out of that prison of suffering. [I heard an interior voice, which said] ‘My mercy does not want this, but justice demands it. Since that time I am in closer communion with the suffering souls.’” (Diary of St. Faustina 20)

there's a couple of more on the page that ^ came from

https://aleteia.org/2013/11/01/3-sobering-visions-of-purgatory-from-the-saints/

Assuming the story of the Virgin Mary is correct, she would be considered a dead person (human spirit) communicating with presently living humans?

I'm not that familiar with any of the Protestant versions of Christianity, do any of them believe in Saints, visions, and such (Episcopal/Anglicans perhaps?)


As a Catholic - I don't see those people as "dead" - Blessed Mother, Saints, etc.

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him." (John 3: 36)

"And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, 'Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?' He said to him, 'What is written in the law? How do you read?' And he answered, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.' And he said to him, 'You have answered right; do this, and you will live.' " (Luke 10: 25-28)

"So Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. ' " (John 6: 53-57)

Eternal LIFE is pretty specific/clear.

OK, Eternal Life, sure thing. In the Spirit World (Heaven in Christian terms), but they are dead as far as this world is concerned, no?

If it's true for the Saints (mortal men) and the Blessed Virgin ( a blessed, but mortal, woman) and they have been granted Eternal Life, could that not also be true for other mortals that followed the guidance in your quotes (Luke and John), and if so, and folks were visited by them, would those folks not be seeing the spirits of dead (in the common vernacular) people?


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Satan's game is to get you to believe in anything that's against Jesus. These 'ghosts' are his demons, sent to deceive you. Yes, many times people have seen spirits, haints, whatever you want to call them, but none of them are departed souls. They're Satan's followers deceiving you.

RC,

What’s the deception, and if it’s from Satan, why?

A person sees something, call it a ghost or spirit. The spirit/ghost doesn’t say or do anything. The person who saw it only has a story to tell that they saw something.

It would be different if the ghost/spirit said, go kill your cat and drinks it’s blood. Then sure, maybe it’s a demon. But just a sighting of a something that didn’t speak - To me that’s reaching to say it’s 100% satanic.

Change my mind.

🦫
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead. If Satan can convince you that there there is, then he's convinced you that Jesus was wrong, that he's imperfect, and he is not God.
The case of Samuel appearing to Saul was a special case. As Jesus said, with God all things are possible. God has the power to make the impossible possible. He impossibly brought Jesus back from the dead, did he not? God also impossibly made dead believers appear when Jesus died on the cross. They were seen walking around Jerusalem. We aren't given any information what that was all about other than it happened. It was another special case of God exercising his infinite power to do the impossible.

Then couldn’t God be exercising his infinite power, doing the impossible for someone who sees something, or hears a voice from somebody they once knew…Like a child, a parent, grandma, spouse, etc…?

🦫


I'm no Theologist, but in my view, God can, and does, just about anything God wants.

So, to answer your question.....................................YES


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Before I got married (and then divorced) I was staying at the ex's grandfather's house, since he had passed a few years prior. We were in the living room watching the old Curtis Mathis television. I was sitting in her grandfather's Lazy Boy recliner. Then it was time to go up to the bedroom and get busy. In order to get out of the Lazy Boy it must be returned to the upright position, which I did. I then turned the TV off and went upstairs. Sometime later - in the middle of the night - I heard something, so I went downstairs to investigate and to get a glass of ice water.

I went into the living room and the Lazy Boy was reclined and the television was on! No one else was in the house. I again turned the TV off and I put the chair back into the upright position. Perhaps granddad didn't like me boning his granddaughter in his bed.

The next day, nothing happened & I didn't get kilt.

Last edited by High_Noon; 05/17/22.

l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
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Maybe it's Shaman, glowing in the dark after shaving his hair? smile


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Originally Posted by las
Maybe it's Shaman, glowing in the dark after shaving his hair? smile
Maybe he needs to ask The Donald who his spray on tan person is?


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead.
What was that passage(s)?
TIA
Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16:19-31.

Then there's Hebrews 9:27 Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.

Here's a good article I read: GHOSTS


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Satan's game is to get you to believe in anything that's against Jesus. These 'ghosts' are his demons, sent to deceive you. Yes, many times people have seen spirits, haints, whatever you want to call them, but none of them are departed souls. They're Satan's followers deceiving you.

RC,

What’s the deception, and if it’s from Satan, why?

A person sees something, call it a ghost or spirit. The spirit/ghost doesn’t say or do anything. The person who saw it only has a story to tell that they saw something.

It would be different if the ghost/spirit said, go kill your cat and drinks it’s blood. Then sure, maybe it’s a demon. But just a sighting of a something that didn’t speak - To me that’s reaching to say it’s 100% satanic.

Change my mind.

🦫
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead. If Satan can convince you that there there is, then he's convinced you that Jesus was wrong, that he's imperfect, and he is not God.
The case of Samuel appearing to Saul was a special case. As Jesus said, with God all things are possible. God has the power to make the impossible possible. He impossibly brought Jesus back from the dead, did he not? God also impossibly made dead believers appear when Jesus died on the cross. They were seen walking around Jerusalem. We aren't given any information what that was all about other than it happened. It was another special case of God exercising his infinite power to do the impossible.

Then couldn’t God be exercising his infinite power, doing the impossible for someone who sees something, or hears a voice from somebody they once knew…Like a child, a parent, grandma, spouse, etc…?

🦫
Yes, God could do that. However, in keeping with God's character, he only exceeds his own power for special purposes. In the case of Samuel appearing to Saul, this was the king of Israel, God's own chosen ruler, sinning to the point where God was going to kick him off the throne. He needed something powerful to convince him.
In the case of the dead believers arising at Jesus' death, we aren't told what God was doing. He had his own reasons and didn't have a need to tell us what it was.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

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After nearly 30 years in EMS I've witnessed things that I can't explain. guy with a broken neck walking out of a pool. told me 2 white guys in white flowing robes pulled him out. by standers said he walked out and fell over. He didn't walk anywhere with the c3 fracture he had and there was no white people in this neighborhood I assure you. Birds pecking on the window of a guy who just passed. I've felt the presence of peoples spirits in houses I've never been in before. I believe there's plenty of things in this universe we are too ignorant to comprehend. Just like animals seem to have a 6th sense, I believe we lack certain perceptions. Because we lack these we are ignorant of their possibilities of existing. I think we use religion to try and explain some of these. possibilities of ghost being around us and trying to reveal something maybe real. Must be pretty frustrating for them not to be able to convey the message. maybe that's their hell. IMHO


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RC,

Thanks for the information.

🦫


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Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Satan's game is to get you to believe in anything that's against Jesus. These 'ghosts' are his demons, sent to deceive you. Yes, many times people have seen spirits, haints, whatever you want to call them, but none of them are departed souls. They're Satan's followers deceiving you.

RC,

What’s the deception, and if it’s from Satan, why?

A person sees something, call it a ghost or spirit. The spirit/ghost doesn’t say or do anything. The person who saw it only has a story to tell that they saw something.

It would be different if the ghost/spirit said, go kill your cat and drinks it’s blood. Then sure, maybe it’s a demon. But just a sighting of a something that didn’t speak - To me that’s reaching to say it’s 100% satanic.

Change my mind.

🦫
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead. If Satan can convince you that there there is, then he's convinced you that Jesus was wrong, that he's imperfect, and he is not God.
The case of Samuel appearing to Saul was a special case. As Jesus said, with God all things are possible. God has the power to make the impossible possible. He impossibly brought Jesus back from the dead, did he not? God also impossibly made dead believers appear when Jesus died on the cross. They were seen walking around Jerusalem. We aren't given any information what that was all about other than it happened. It was another special case of God exercising his infinite power to do the impossible.

Then couldn’t God be exercising his infinite power, doing the impossible for someone who sees something, or hears a voice from somebody they once knew…Like a child, a parent, grandma, spouse, etc…?

🦫


I'm no Theologist, but in my view, God can, and does, just about anything God wants.

So, to answer your question.....................................YES

That was my thinking. Especially when a spirit seems to be comforting or benevolent towards the person witnessing it.


🦫


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A couple of theories are that ghosts are demons or that ghosts are those in purgatory.


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Now the really weird stuff happens at the house just up the road from the farm. I don't know about the current inhabitants. However, the guy who sold us our place was raised in this house, and his parents remain. . . active.

For a while after we moved in there was a woman renting it out that complained that she was getting groped and pinched by a spirit. She finally had enough and moved out.

The mother's spirit was also fairly active. The previous owner used to have to come over and call up to the attic. "Don't worry, Momma! You're hats are just fine." It seems Mom was very proud of an extensive hat collection that she kept in boxes in the attic. After she died the hats were removed. However, something was frequently heard in the attic rummaging through non-existent hat boxes.

I was never personally witness to any of this, but these are not the sort of stories you go making up. As with our apparitions, most of this has died down over the intervening 20 years. However, it was quite something when we first got there.


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Originally Posted by JoeBob
I personally believe that there are many dimensions. And that time as we perceive it is merely an illusion. That is to say we can only experience it one way. Other being might be able to move back and forth on a timeline. God can see all of time and all of creation laid out before him. He can see everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen laid out before him as the great NOW. Thus it is all happening simultaneously to him. And perhaps, other beings as well are more perceptive of this and able to move in other dimensions more freely. I believe the spirit world is largely just that, another dimension with beings who inhabit it like we inhabit ours.

I quite agree. As for the bolded piece, this is why He announced himself to Moses as "I AM".

Eternal beings that are not tethered to the unilateral time-stream of the universe, unlike we humans in this corporeal life, have a hard time grasping this. Other eternal beings who have never been tied to the physical universe as we are can presumably experience eternity as a single moment; so it's certainly possible that a human spirit that has been released by death may appear to be "stuck" to a place like a haunted house or a battlefield. Whether it's a different "dimension" or simply a different viewpoint of one cohesive universe is, to my mind, not a big distinction.


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Originally Posted by ruffcutt
Originally Posted by 5sdad
Originally Posted by TheLastLemming76
DocRocket,

I know the exact feeling of something mystical or ghost like at the Battle of the Little Bighorn site. My logical side tells me it was my imagination and buildup to seeing a famous site that I had wanted to visit for years. IDK, but there was absolutely a feeling of something that I could almost feel and see but not quite.

I had a very strong sense of "presence" there.
10 years or so ago I was going through North Dakota Historical archives that had recently been digitized.
Among the ones I was going through was Indian interviews from Standing Rock reservation about the battle.
Sitting bull was among the interviewee’s.
He said he wasn’t a participant in the battle but among the women and child.
After the battle he roamed the battlefield and when he came across last stand hill he was startled by Custer’s spirit.
He said the spirit had not yet departed but was lingering.
I meant to get back to those archives when I had more time, but never found that volume of archives again.

It's strange how a battle that was so small (compared to others like the Somme, Stalingrad, Gettysburg, etc) as Little Bighorn should have such a strong spiritual presence. I suspect there is something else at play here, beyond the Little Bighorn site.

C.S. Lewis wrote of this, pointing out the fact that there are places in Britain and continental Europe that seem to have strong spiritual presence, which he called "nodes", if I recall correctly. Places like this seem to be a focus for repeated paranormal activity, and may attract temporal activity such as battles, accidents, and so forth. I know of a couple of these places in western Canada, which were highly significant to the plains Indians, "holy" places to them, where I myself and others have experienced paranormal phenomena. These were associated with battles and other socially significant events in the past, at least according to oral histories.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Jesus said that there is no contact between the living and the dead.
What was that passage(s)?
TIA

....crickets...

He can't cite one because there is nothing in the Gospels to support this assertion.


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Originally Posted by shaman
Now the really weird stuff happens at the house just up the road from the farm. I don't know about the current inhabitants. However, the guy who sold us our place was raised in this house, and his parents remain. . . active.

For a while after we moved in there was a woman renting it out that complained that she was getting groped and pinched by a spirit. She finally had enough and moved out.

The mother's spirit was also fairly active. The previous owner used to have to come over and call up to the attic. "Don't worry, Momma! You're hats are just fine." It seems Mom was very proud of an extensive hat collection that she kept in boxes in the attic. After she died the hats were removed. However, something was frequently heard in the attic rummaging through non-existent hat boxes.

I was never personally witness to any of this, but these are not the sort of stories you go making up. As with our apparitions, most of this has died down over the intervening 20 years. However, it was quite something when we first got there.

My house in Wisconsin was apparently "haunted". I never personally saw or otherwise interacted with our ghost, but one of my daughters, my late/ex-wife, and one of my daughters' friends all did interact with her.

The ghost was that of a young woman who had worked for previous owners of the house in the 1920's who had died in the house. Both my daughter and my late/ex-wife said her name was Elizabeth, or Lizzie, and years later we were able to confirm that this was indeed the name of a maid who had lived and died there. We ALL heard footsteps in the attic that sounded like a woman wearing leather shoes walking, on numerous occasions. My daughter selected the attic for her bedroom when we lived there, and she said she saw the ghost numerous times but that was all she was aware of. Her young friend encountered the ghost in our basement on one occasion, and he was absolutely terrified by the apparition, which he said was hideous and threatening. My then wife, who was something of a psychic, said she had conversations with the ghost girl in her "dreams", on several occasions, and she proclaimed the ghost harmless.

Myself, I never saw or heard her (other than the footsteps). But we often had personal objects moved from one floor of the house to another, and lights would be found on when they had been definitely turned off. Interestingly enough, when I had an electrician replace the old knob-and-tube wiring in our kitchen and part of our main floor, the problem of lights switching themselves off and on ended. Apparently Lizzie couldn't figure out the new switches.


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James,

Years ago I had an appointment to meet some farm and ranch folks pretty far out in the country. Rural Texas. Old ranch/farm type house.

I drove up at the appropriate time, and knocked on the door. No answer. Went back to the pickup to wait, and saw a woman standing beside a clothes line in back of the house. Middle aged looking woman. Her hair was up, not hanging free.

When I walked around the house to talk to her she wasn't there. I continued to walk completely around the house, but didn't see her.

Before I could get back to my pickup, another car drove up, and it was the people I was supposed to meet.

I apologized and told them I wasn't prowling around their house, but had seen the woman out back and went to talk to her.

The husband and wife looked at each other, then back to me and simply stated "So, you saw her too."

I told them I did, plain as day. They just said she was a ghost that lived around their place. That she means no harm. I told them I didn't feel scared or threatened, and they said "Good", and we went about our meeting.


Not the best ghost story there is, but pretty good confirmation that my eyes weren't playing tricks on me. smile


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Healy Creek valley, especially the upper end, has a "feel" to it for me, anyway. It feels to me like something powerful resides there, brooding maybe, not hostile, just uncaring.


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