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Calhoun Offline OP
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Not an auction, so fair game to discuss.

A 99G in 300 Savage from October, 1922 (accepted and shipped) that was "resold" in Feb. 1924 to the Winship Company. I'd think it's possible that it was just shipped to Winship rather than sold to Winship, but... impossible to know. If it's a normal entry, I'd personally say it was reshipped to Winship rather than resold..

I'm not sure we've ever seen a 99G that lettered as going to Winship.

AND.. it's an early case without the crossbar and W.W. Winship logo. It's 2 years prior to the W.W. Winship crossbar cases coming out.

So.. why did a 99G in 300 Savage go to Winship? I can think of 3 reasons...

1) Somebody sent in their 99G in 300 Savage to be converted to a cased set, and Savage handed it off to Winship to fit and return.
2) Savage sent an early cased set off to Winship as a sample in order for Winship to design their cross-bar cases.
3) Somebody important at Winship bought a combination kit, or was presented one by Savage.

Neither #1 or #2 is a perfect match in my mind.
#1 requires that Winship was the company making the early cases. And while I've always thought that was likely, there's never been any proof. I'm also not sure why Savage would have had to give the gun to Winship to have it fitted to a case?? I'd really expect to see a work order number rather than Winship's name.
#2 seems unlikely in that it's about 2 years before the Winship cross-bar cases (Styles 3 & 4 of the Combination Kit) show up.

#3 almost seems most likely... thoughts?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...300-savage-410.cfm?gun_id=101963025#lg-1

[Linked Image from images.gunsinternational.com]

Last edited by Calhoun; 06/06/22.

The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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Calhoun Offline OP
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I guess a 4th possibility is that somebody sent it in to have repairs done to the case. Maybe the felt tore or something, and so it went back to be relined. Hmm... that again means that Winship was the company making the Style 1 & 2 cases.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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I think what is important is that the rifle is tied directly to the case maker Winship indicating a possible factory set vs. a pieced together set by someone after the fact.

The JTC letter does not mention a .410 barrel or a cased set, but it sounds like the recording system for ledgers didn't clearly specify these things.
The JTC letters I have and have seen typically state the warehouse and ship dates and possibly the recipient of the rifle. But, doesn't say specifically "sold to" recipient.
This JTC letter says "resold". The actual ledger page is absent so this cannot be verified. Maybe JTC used the word resold vs. reshipped??

All the potential reasons why may be interesting, but are purely speculation.
The bottom line is this cased set appears to be legit with some documentation whereas few others are documented as cased sets.


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Another possibility: Perhaps the original buyer (hard to read, but looks like Robert's Hardware, Utica), returned it as unsold inventory. Guess it really does not matter; the important part is it shipped to Winship the 2nd time.

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Calhoun Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Southern_WI_Savage
I think what is important is that the rifle is tied directly to the case maker Winship indicating a possible factory set vs. a pieced together set by someone after the fact.
Strictly speaking, only if Winship made the early cases as well as the later cases or if it was a sample to design the Winship cross-bar cases. I've always suspected Winship made the early cases, so I think this is possible evidence of that. Otherwise it's just documentation that a 99G went to Winship..

Originally Posted by Southern_WI_Savage
The JTC letter does not mention a .410 barrel or a cased set, but it sounds like the recording system for ledgers didn't clearly specify these things.
The JTC letters I have and have seen typically state the warehouse and ship dates and possibly the recipient of the rifle. But, doesn't say specifically "sold to" recipient.
This JTC letter says "resold". The actual ledger page is absent so this cannot be verified. Maybe JTC used the word resold vs. reshipped??
I don't think the ledgers ever mention a 410 barrel, but I do think an early cased set or two lettered as a "Comb. Set" - meaning that was recorded in the ledger either instead of or in addition to the 99G model. Most cased sets just come back lettering as a 99G.
I have to correct myself on the "Sold To".... the ledger column on the right is titled "SOLD TO", not "SHIPPED TO". In this case.. I'm not sure that's correct, but that's why I listed 4 options. It might have been sold to Winship, or just shipped there.


Originally Posted by KeithNyst
Another possibility: Perhaps the original buyer (hard to read, but looks like Robert's Hardware, Utica), returned it as unsold inventory. Guess it really does not matter; the important part is it shipped to Winship the 2nd time.
Very possible it was returned by Roberts Hardware in Utica. Which would mean it was sold to Winship rather than just shipped there - my option #3.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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I see from a 1924 ad that Winship had an office/plant? in Utica. Do you know if they had an office there at the time the Cased set originated?


Savage...never say "never".
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Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!


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Calhoun Offline OP
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Rick, I ran across an article once of somebody retiring from Winship in Utica that stated the company had been there since the late 1800's. I do have a 1914 leatherworker's ad for Winship that says they are in Utica. In fact this ad states the factory is in Utica and Boston is just a sales floor, so the Boston plant looks to have been added later.

They have patents filed in 1914 and 1916 that list Utica. Might be more.

So definitely in Utica in 1921.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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Wow.. just ran into a history of Boston that says trunkmaker W.W. Winship started up in Boston during the Revolution - 1777. Moved to Utica (or just opened a factory there) 100+ years later.

They sure didn't advertise much their first 120 years. grin


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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You mean they didn't have the net? laugh laugh laugh


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Originally Posted by Rick99
I see from a 1924 ad that Winship had an office/plant? in Utica. Do you know if they had an office there at the time the Cased set originated?
We talked about some of this "not too long ago." I don't have the thread at the moment.
But part of that talk/information was that Winship not only had an office in Utica,...but the office was onsite at Savage IIRC. gotta find the thread.... eek


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Calhoun Offline OP
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It also seems as though the Winship family was in charge or owned a company in Utica called Faber's that did trunks/luggage as well.

Since they predated Savage Arms, I'd be surprised to find that they shared a building. Maybe just close to each other? Or did Winship move into unused space after WWI?

in 1921 Winship was at 10 Meadow St, Utica NY. Don't think that was the Savage factory?

1914 ad.. factory in Boston does repair and order work, Utica does wardrobe and personal trunks.

[Linked Image from i.ebayimg.com]


in June, 1923 - 10 Meadow St, Utica NY.

[Linked Image from ia803409.us.archive.org]


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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Calhoun Offline OP
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Here's a thread from 2 years ago where I found an address for Winship on Bleecker Street. Didn't provide a link to the source tho.. oops.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15528941


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
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https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/I...board-1924-08-16-Fall-Special-IDX-77.pdf

Maybe the early ones were made by H C Faber? Then after the consolidation by Winship. Just troughing out ideas. If there was a maker in Utica I would think they would have used them.


Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!


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Calhoun Offline OP
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Good find. I just found this in a 1917 legal proceeding:

"H.C. Faber & Son Company is a corporation engaged in manufacturing commercial trunks, with it's factory located on Meadow street, utica. Diagonally across this street the W. W. Winship Company, a second corporation, is engaged in the manufacture of personal trunks. Both corporations are owned by the same stockholders and are carried on by a single executive organization."

So Faber might have created the Style 1 and Style 2... but same owners as Winship. Commercial trunks would also be the appropriate fit for a gun case rather than a company making personal trunks, and commercial trunks would be less likely to have a maker's name on them.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0

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