Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Question for the holy guys

I might have opened my comment above with “I certainly am not holy.” Only God knows this more than I do; it’s why I need a savior! There are two important Biblical or theological terms that are true of the believer in Jesus Christ. “Justified” is what I am when I believe in Christ as Lord and savior, meaning my sin is separated from me; paid for. And it was very expensive for Christ paying off my and everyone else’s account. This does not MAKE me holy, but God now “SEES me as holy,” even though I still sin.

“Sanctification” is the process, post-justification, of becoming more Christ-like as a Holy Spirit-inhabited
Believer. But as long as I am in this body of flesh, I will never be completely sinless. And it’s true, that as a believer, one becomes very aware of every sin of commission. Very. But, we can rest in the completed act of Christ as efw said.

This is why Christ’s sacrifice, so beyond human experience, was crucial. Without it, and because of the Fall in Genesis ch 3, we would all be doomed to eternal destruction. Dying in our sins, we would be relegated to paying off our own sin debt forever. Unsuccessfully.

The old in-a-nutshell thing. And this nutshell above is a very small one. The apostle Paul fleshes this out in Romans.

What are you trying to count?

Here is what I get.

You may have missed a good opportunity - but missing indoctrination does not automatically indicate that a person sees clearly, appreciates skepticism and thinks critically. I know some unindoctrinated folks who can't or don't do the above.

Then again, I know some who were indoctrinated and who also see very clearly, appreciate skepticism and are excellent critical thinkers.

Experience says that indoctrination may not matter much, or at all. On the other hand, self-honesty can be a big asset.

MM……Nope….just the reverse…..you are spiritually blind. You see with your mind but not your heart.

And …. For DBT…… it seems to me that when you have exposed to having a biblical untenable view, you change subjects or just simply….hmm…. What is the term “conflate?”….. fail to see the whole and erroneously separate into disparate parts…whatever…..

Jesus knows your heart

He also knows about you buying demon alcohol for your friend

In this instance, contradictions. I know that some folks don't agree.

NEVER in this life will there be full agreement or absence of contradictions regarding God, His role and will. This is one of the reasons I am not much concerned about personal contradictions and do not devote a lot of time and effort to gathering data on them.

Some folks here have done well in explaining that salvation freely given by God is not dependent on any other factor. They also have explained the expectation for, and role of, good works toward others. The free gift is accompanied by an anticipated way of life. Some aspects of that life have to do with "works".

If you want to look the gift horse in the mouth, really LOOK, I believe that your perceived contradictions can be allayed.

Clearly and well said. I agree. Wholeheartedly.

This is a good thread.

The Western church so often confuses salvation and sanctification.

Results in a lot of bad theology.

Well, it seems that you don’t get it or perhaps you are deliberately choosing “not to understand.”


Doing right things…. Doing “good works” ….. being a “good guy who helps others” counts for zip when it comes to gaining salvation with God. What you think of yourself…. Good, bad, in between….does not matter when it comes to receiving God’s gift of salvation. Before receiving Christ, one is not part of the Body of Christ and as far as salvation is concerned, you have no spiritual relationship with God…… if one dies, he will be subject to judgment for his deeds and not allowed into heaven. This one’s …. Sin…. Is a barrier to having fellowship with God.


BUT….. after one receives the Spirit…. Becomes born again….. THEN…. Let me repeat….THEN…. Good works matter a great deal…..good works…. Especially good work performed at the direction of the Holy Spirit….are most pleasing to God and matter a great deal…..to Him. This born again person has had his sins forgiven and covered “by the blood” sacrifice provided by Jesus at the cross. God has “breathed life” to this one and the Spirit of God resides within him. He has been made a part of the Body of Christ.



When the Father looks upon this person, in effect, He sees him as a member of the Body…. The Father does not count sin against him as Jesus….the perfect sacrifice for sin…. Has paid the sin price…. Covered over the man’s sin by His blood.



NOTE…….Christians on earth are still living in a corrupt and sinful body and there is still a “sin battle” going on within. Read Romans 7 for more info……So, here you have a forgiven man…. Having the indwelling of the Spirit…. But still in a worldly body of flesh. Does this man sin? Yes….. when the Father looks at him, He sees the spiritual man “in Jesus” and this man is indeed holy and blameless in the Father’s eyes. Yes, when a Christian sins, there are indeed consequences for that sin….. (I know I have suffered various consequences for my sin, but can go to God for forgiveness and go on, looking forward to the day of my death and “release”)


NOTE….. when this born again man dies, he leaves the sinful body behind and receives a new “Christ like” body and joins Jesus in heaven.



So, DBT…….I suspect that this will seem like nonsense to you as you give no evidence of being born of God.

My advice and my prayer is that you turn to God ….. and in humility…. ask for enlightening. If you do, He will indeed answer. In fact, I would say that He is eager to not only hear from you, but eager to respond.

Most people will use skepticism and critical thinking for most parts of their daily lives, but not so with their religious beliefs. Those that do so honestly however typically become atheists - there's plenty to be found on various channels and forums.

People can be fooled, especially children where indoctrination works well, because they are told to believe without any real reason to believe, just believe. Threats of eternal damnation may help negate those wandering, inquisitive young minds.

That's part of the religious fantasy.

When I was younger and used to go out drinking, my "soul" used to end up just as shit-faced as me.

Religious people who have had a near death experience will see whatever god they happen to believe in - soul error or brain mis-function? If you do enough PCP and Ketamine you'll be able to see all sorts of gods, demons, angels and sometimes may even be a tactile experience if you're lucky.

You see with your eyes, think with your mind and pump blood with your heart, with the brain providing the driving centre for most of what happens in the body. Emotions are an electro-chemical action in the brain than can be further enhanced by the effect of the memories stored there - not a soul running the show.

If you happen to find a real soul shoot it so it can be displayed as evidence for us to examine.

Mauser - What is your soul ?

Can you articulately define what that is ?

"As for, and my house, we will serve the Lord'.

Why not?

Yes, I don't have one. Waiting for someone to demonstrate what a soul is and that they exist.

I know our Aussie friends do not believe and that is their choice....but my belief of the soul is....the part of a person that is not physical. It is the part of every human being that lasts eternally after the body experiences death. Genesis 35:18 describes the death of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, saying she named her son “as her soul was departing.” From this we know that the soul is different from the body and that it continues to live after physical death.

That's not evidence, that's just what somebody wrote.