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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,419 Likes: 23 |
What was the official designation of the double edge knife that Bale's character carries in Hostiles?
That is a bad ass blade pattern. I asked Gruff to make me one but he told me to GFM. I thought it was impressive, too. It's a real knife that was manufactured by Springfield and legit issued. Unless I'm misinformed. Counting on Kaydub to set me straight. Could use a book reference too. Looks like an 1880 Springfield. Yup!!! Thats what it is! M1880. Sorry for taking so long to get back. In the middle of moving my digs to new locale. My favorite martial blade is the M1849 Rifleman’s knife by Ames Mfg. Chicopee Falls Mass. Lots of Indian made copies out there. Springfield Hospital Corps knife is pretty cool too as well as the bolo knife. Look em up!!! The Bolo versions are pretty cool. Last one I saw at the big Tulsa Gun Show was not cheap.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
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M1849 Ames Riflemans knife
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
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M1904 Hospital Bolo
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,419 Likes: 23 |
M1849 Ames Riflemans knife That’s cool Bob ! Never seen one. I used to have a Patton Sword that they cut down to make a soldiers knife in WW-1 with the original grip still attached. Gave it to my nephew that you’ve met that does re-enactments at Camp Mabry
Last edited by chlinstructor; 06/19/22.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,986 Likes: 1 |
I have three of these. Rigid Alamo Bowie. Damn things are 17 inch with a 10 1/2 inch blade. The spine of the blade is 3/8 inch thick and weighs prolly close to for pounds. Real practical... An everyday carry knife right. I have both a gun and knife problem.
Coyotes shot no waiting.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
No one ever said Jim Bowie made men equal, Colonel Colt did.
As best I can gather affordable, reliable revolvers first achieve general distribution here in Texas with the arrival in numbers of the ‘51 Navy in the mid 1850’s.
The end of the “tyranny of the Bowie knife”?
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,199 Likes: 9 |
Birdwatcher,
You mentioned the name Smithwick, that reminded me of an old town out on 1431, between CedarPark and Marble Falls. Nothing really there anymore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
Birdwatcher,
You mentioned the name Smithwick, that reminded me of an old town out on 1431, between CedarPark and Marble Falls. Nothing really there anymore. You have a good memory. Later on during his near thirty year career in Texas, Noah Smithwick was one of the first settlers of that section of the Colorado River. Throughout his life he was an industrious individual and built a mill at that location. Shortly thereafter, being a confirmed Union man. he left Texas for California at the outbreak of the Civil War. Many years later, when he was approaching 90 and going blind, his daughter had him relate the events of his life to keep him occupied. A guy who’s extraordinary life reads like a Texian miniseries. Best of all his whole memoirs are available online. See.... The Evolution of a State, or Recollections of Old Texas DaysHe is so matter-of-fact it bears careful reading or you might miss it. Like the time around 1840 the Comanches stole his horse, so he reads their tracks, checks the priming on his rifle and sets out on foot to recover it ”because there were only two of them”.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,648 Likes: 6 |
Viking,
As an aside, I have taken the same route a Smithwick in my recent western migration. I have moved from his old stomping grounds on the Wilbarger trace NW of Bastrop on the Joseph Rogers grant, out onto a portion of the old Fowler grant on the Burnet/Blanco co line. Im a bit southeast of his old Burnet county digs SE of the conflux of Double Horn creek (close to his mill location) on the Colorado.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,927 Likes: 53 |
No one ever said Jim Bowie made men equal, Colonel Colt did.
As best I can gather affordable, reliable revolvers first achieve general distribution here in Texas with the arrival in numbers of the ‘51 Navy in the mid 1850’s.
The end of the “tyranny of the Bowie knife”? Yep. Colt revolvers replaced the Bowie knife as the best, serious, regularly carried, personal sidearm in the US, but the 1849 Pocket Revolver was actually a hair earlier than the 1851 navy, and was always a bigger seller. The Navy was close in popularity, though. The Dragoons were never popular personal civilian arms.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
Yep. Colt revolvers replaced the Bowie knife as the best, serious, regularly carried, personal sidearm in the US, but the 1849 Pocket Revolver was actually a hair earlier than the 1851 navy, and was always a bigger seller. Tks for the info. Ranger Captain John Salmon Ford in his memoirs “RIP Ford’s Texas” states that, early 1850’s, his Ranging Company” was reduced to using old single-shot horse pistols due to a lack of “serviceable revolvers”. Didn’t matter that much anyway as most of his Comanche fighting was done with rifles. 1857, Frederick Law Olmstead (the guy who went on to design Central Park in NYC) left us an invaluable snapshot of Texas in his “A Journey Through Texas”. By then guys all over Texas were packing Colt revolvers.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,577 Likes: 1 |
M1904 Hospital Bolo I've got one of these but don't have the sheath. I really should search for one.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,648 Likes: 6 |
What lots don’t of folks don’t realize in these days of relative stopping power et al, is being gutshot with anything was pretty much a death sentence back then. .31 or .36 cal. round ball or conical, no matter. You gonna ride off and die a miserable death, somewhere.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,648 Likes: 6 |
George Childress, in a fit of drunken depression disembowled himself with a Bowie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_ChildressAnother hero of the Tx. Revolution, Dr. Branch T. Archer ( Archer City Tx named for him), tried to shove his guts back in and sew him up best he could. But to no avail.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,833 Likes: 10 |
A little info on the alleged knife maker James Black. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Black_(blacksmith)This is a little speculation but he was known as an enterprising self promoting type. I suspect that having famous people like Crockett and Bowie in town was too much temptation for him to resist and he couldn’t help but make a special knife for the famous knife fighter. It probably wasn’t the first “Bowie” knife but it likely contained some “improvements” or special touches and might very well have been the knife Bowie carried at the Alamo a few months later.
Last edited by JoeBob; 06/20/22.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,419 Likes: 23 |
Birdwatcher,
You mentioned the name Smithwick, that reminded me of an old town out on 1431, between CedarPark and Marble Falls. Nothing really there anymore. You have a good memory. Later on during his near thirty year career in Texas, Noah Smithwick was one of the first settlers of that section of the Colorado River. Throughout his life he was an industrious individual and built a mill at that location. Shortly thereafter, being a confirmed Union man. he left Texas for California at the outbreak of the Civil War. Many years later, when he was approaching 90 and going blind, his daughter had him relate the events of his life to keep him occupied. A guy who’s extraordinary life reads like a Texian miniseries. Best of all his whole memoirs are available online. See.... The Evolution of a State, or Recollections of Old Texas DaysHe is so matter-of-fact it bears careful reading or you might miss it. Like the time around 1840 the Comanches stole his horse, so he reads their tracks, checks the priming on his rifle and sets out on foot to recover it ”because there were only two of them”. That’s a great book. I actually read it twice.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
So James Black left home at age 8, that’s pretty hardcore.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,958 Likes: 6 |
The Evolution of a State, or Recollections of Old Texas DaysHe is so matter-of-fact it bears careful reading or you might miss it. Like the time around 1840 the Comanches stole his horse, so he reads their tracks, checks the priming on his rifle and sets out on foot to recover it ”because there were only two of them”. That’s a great book. I actually read it twice. Several great passages in the book, my own favorite is when he reflects upon the action where they tracked and surprised a Comanche war party and rescued the young Hibbons boy (1837 ??) I was riding a fleet horse, which, becoming excited, carried me right in among the fleeing savages, one of whom jumped behind a tree and fired on me with a musket, fortunately missing his aim. Unable to control my horse, I jumped off him and gave chase to my assailant on foot, knowing his gun was empty. I fired on him and had the satisfaction of seeing him fall. My blood was up and, leaving him for dead, I ran on, loading my rifle as I ran, hoping to bring down another..... The brave whom I shot, lay flat on the ground and loaded his gun, which he discharged at Captain Tumlinson, narrowly missing him and killing his horse; when Conrad Rohrer ran up and, snatching the gun from the Indian’s hands, dealt him a blow on the head with it, crushing his skull....
The boys held an inquest on the dead Indian and, deciding that the gunshot wound would have proved fatal, awarded me the scalp. I modestly waved my claim in favor of Rohrer, but he, generous soul, declared that, according to all rules of the chase, the man who brought down the game was entitled to the pelt, and himself scalped the savage, tying the loathsome trophy to my saddle, where I permitted it to remain, thinking it might afford the poor woman, whose family its owner had helped to murder, some satisfaction to see that gory evidence that one of the wretches had paid the penalty of his crime.
That was the only Indian I ever knew that I shot down, and, after a long experience with them and their success at getting away wounded, I am not at all sure that that fellow would not have survived my shot, so I can’t say positively that I ever did kill a man, not even an Indian.Cool stuff 😎
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 47,257 Likes: 13 |
The Evolution of a State, or Recollections of Old Texas DaysHe is so matter-of-fact it bears careful reading or you might miss it. Like the time around 1840 the Comanches stole his horse, so he reads their tracks, checks the priming on his rifle and sets out on foot to recover it ”because there were only two of them”. That’s a great book. I actually read it twice. Several great passages in the book, my own favorite is when he reflects upon the action where they tracked and surprised a Comanche war party and rescued the young Hibbons boy (1837 ??) I was riding a fleet horse, which, becoming excited, carried me right in among the fleeing savages, one of whom jumped behind a tree and fired on me with a musket, fortunately missing his aim. Unable to control my horse, I jumped off him and gave chase to my assailant on foot, knowing his gun was empty. I fired on him and had the satisfaction of seeing him fall. My blood was up and, leaving him for dead, I ran on, loading my rifle as I ran, hoping to bring down another..... The brave whom I shot, lay flat on the ground and loaded his gun, which he discharged at Captain Tumlinson, narrowly missing him and killing his horse; when Conrad Rohrer ran up and, snatching the gun from the Indian’s hands, dealt him a blow on the head with it, crushing his skull....
The boys held an inquest on the dead Indian and, deciding that the gunshot wound would have proved fatal, awarded me the scalp. I modestly waved my claim in favor of Rohrer, but he, generous soul, declared that, according to all rules of the chase, the man who brought down the game was entitled to the pelt, and himself scalped the savage, tying the loathsome trophy to my saddle, where I permitted it to remain, thinking it might afford the poor woman, whose family its owner had helped to murder, some satisfaction to see that gory evidence that one of the wretches had paid the penalty of his crime.
That was the only Indian I ever knew that I shot down, and, after a long experience with them and their success at getting away wounded, I am not at all sure that that fellow would not have survived my shot, so I can’t say positively that I ever did kill a man, not even an Indian.Cool stuff 😎 Pretty sure Captain Tumlinson is one of my ancestors. there were several in the Rangers.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
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JMHO- I've always thought of the Edwin Forrest knife as the real thing. Supposedly allegedly J Bowie personally handed it to him I've looked for some books I had that had quotations from period newspaper accounts of where Rezin Bowie had written to state that he had "the " Bowie knife made by Jessie Clift as a knife for James after an attempt on his life and as a hunting knife, and other eyewitness accounts of the knife being a large butcher knife. One letter from Rezin to a newspaper said that the the knives we think of as Bowie knives were brought about by other knife makers and not by himself. That's why I've always thought of the personal knife of Bowie as the E Forrest knife I'm thinking Rezin also designed what we call a Searles Bowie knife
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