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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3 |
Remember a brush is only clean the first time. Use it again, and you are transferring some of the copper it took out back to the barrel. Then when you run a clean patch thru you see copper. And the Dog keeps chasing its tail.
Barrels that shoot great fouled are the jewels. And shouldn’t be fooled with unnecessarily or to make the owner tickled with how shiny they look to the eye.
I like the way you think! Helps me justify only cleaning once, every two or three years!  memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,813 |
I kinda half clean them once a year. I figure it keeps them in the most consistent condition. Extremes being spotless and garbage dirty.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,176 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,176 Likes: 5 |
I kinda half clean them once a year. I figure it keeps them in the most consistent condition. Extremes being spotless and garbage dirty. Guess that’s why you hear of “fouling shots”. Some fouling to get it settled in. I don’t clean mine that often. But I’m not a target shooter. I clean at the end of a hunting season and after working up loads. I shoot more in load development than actual hunting, which I’m sure is the case for most hunter/reloaders. DF
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3 |
I kinda half clean them once a year. I figure it keeps them in the most consistent condition. Extremes being spotless and garbage dirty. Guess that’s why you hear of “fouling shots”. Some fouling to get it settled in. I don’t clean mine that often. But I’m not a target shooter. I clean at the end of a hunting season and after working up loads. I shoot more in load development than actual hunting, which I’m sure is the case for most hunter/reloaders. DF I used to shoot quite a bit in load development for various cartridges. However, hunting with “only” one rifle and being “very” satisfied with my present load.....I don’t experiment much. Consequently, I don’t shoot a great deal.....which means, I don’t clean often. “The circle of life”! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
KG1 run patches thru until clean
KG3 flush out remnants of KG1
KG12 --best copper remover on the planet ...use nylon brushes 20 strokes
KG3--flush out remnants of KG12
KG4--some of the best bore lubricant made
Barnes, Sweets are Caca de la Vaca. Use only if you hate your rifle
I got Tendinitis just reading about all those unnecessary extra steps, Try wipe-out just once, It does not get any easier, or with better results. I have wipe-out,patchout and ballistic advantage. Do you have any KG products?
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,176 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,176 Likes: 5 |
Not Kenneth, but I do have an assortment of KG products. They're good, I'm just into Patch Out at the present time. And, as a Loony, I reserve the right to change my mind...  DF
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Not Kenneth, but I do have an assortment of KG products. They're good, I'm just into Patch Out at the present time. And, as a Loony, I reserve the right to change my mind... DF KG products are heavily endorsed by Gunwerks
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,551
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,551 |
Yeah I have some Sweets coming tomorrow. I'll bet lunch money that the Sweets will leave you disappointed, I also had copper issues for years with the Tsx's,,,,,, Multiple cleaners could not do what Wipeout does so easily. Don't even wait for the disappointment of Sweet's to occur,, Order Wipeout today, you'll need it. Sweets stinks like hell and can damage your bite if you forget and leave it in too long. I like the patch out better than wipe out but both work great. The Bore Tech copper remover is just as good.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745 |
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,446 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,446 Likes: 3 |
Yeah I have some Sweets coming tomorrow. I'll bet lunch money that the Sweets will leave you disappointed, I also had copper issues for years with the Tsx's,,,,,, Multiple cleaners could not do what Wipeout does so easily. Don't even wait for the disappointment of Sweet's to occur,, Order Wipeout today, you'll need it. Sweets stinks like hell and can damage your bite if you forget and leave it in too long. I like the patch out better than wipe out but both work great. The Bore Tech copper remover is just as good. Mess with it while you have cuts on your fingers…..stings like hell.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,785 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,785 Likes: 3 |
Years ago, when I started messing with the original Banes bullets, I experienced the next level of copper fouling! There's a very good reason Barnes came out with their CR-10. I was BSing with a buddy up at the rifle range back then about it and he gave me a bottle of industrial grade ammonia, claiming it'll get the copper out faster than anything. Holy crap! Use with extreme caution! Only used it once and still have the bottle on my shelf. But that's only because I don't know what to do with it! A lot of very good advise here, I have some different stuff to try.
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
NRA life member
Illinois State Rifle Association member
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,169 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,169 Likes: 14 |
For copper fouling i have found nothing better than Wipe-Out 👍........Good luck...Hb In any case, just get some wipe-out and leave the sweets on the shelf. . My Sweets stays on the shelf, good place for it. I use Patch Out more than Wipe Out. Both work very well. I use DBC, so don't get heavy fouling. If I did, would probably use Wipe Out and let it soak for a good while. As is, Patch Out is about all I need. DBC treated bores clean up really well and don't foul that bad. DF I agree. Sweets only gets used if I have to clean a bore on an old used rifle that someone neglected or did not clean right. Sounds kind of like what is going with the op. Otherwise it stays in the drawer and rarely gets used. Its only used for extreme cases. I know guys hate cleaning their rifles, but if you neglect them and don't use some type of copper cleaning agent you will get copper build up like the OP is experiencing. Contrary to popular opinion, hoppes #9 does nothing for cleaning, but does smell good. I have an air freshener to prove it.. I just use shooters choice when I need to clean my barrels out on a regular basis. Never have any copper fouling issues. I think they changed the name to MC7 or something like that, but it works and I've been using it for a long time with barrels that have many thousand rounds on them with no ill effects. Yes there is better stuff out there now, but this has worked for so long that I trust it.. Keep in mind that any solvent that has ammonia in it, you can't leave it in the bore for too long (like overnight). I also don't see a big copper build up in my rifles with Barnes bullets, even after a 100 rounds in a range session.. Good luck with it..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,715 Likes: 11
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,715 Likes: 11 |
Copper is 1000 x easier to remove than carbon and yet everyone wrings their hands over copper.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 821
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 821 |
With regard to fouling, has anyone noticed any difference when using powders such as R16, R23, R26, or the IMR Enduron powders that all supposedly contain a copper fouling eliminator agent? Wondering if it actually helps or makes a difference? Thanks!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,997 Likes: 3 |
With the original Barnes X bullets, it was quickly discovered that they fouled badly……especially so with a less than “super slick” barrel! The newer grooved bullets much improved the fouling situation!
Back in the day, a fried had terrible groups (patterns) with the original Barnes’! I convinced him to hand lap/polish his rifle bore. Once done it reduced the fouling and greatly improved his groups…..yes they were now “groups”! Still pretty poor groups but much improved!
You may try hand lapping your bore and see if it helps some! Just a thought! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,715 Likes: 11
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,715 Likes: 11 |
With regard to fouling, has anyone noticed any difference when using powders such as R16, R23, R26, or the IMR Enduron powders that all supposedly contain a copper fouling eliminator agent? Wondering if it actually helps or makes a difference? Thanks! Absolutely there is a difference.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,227 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,227 Likes: 3 |
Copper is 1000 x easier to remove than carbon and yet everyone wrings their hands over copper. Agree 100%, hard carbon is the headache for me.
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,928 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,928 Likes: 4 |
Early experience with the original X and the blue coated ones swore me off the damn things. Fug Barnes and if the GMX, CX and e-tips do the same fug them too. I'll carry the damn things but use the good stuff fug all the anti lead a holes.
Mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1,102
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1,102 |
Killed (not harvested) well over 100 big game animals with Barnes. 25, 270 7mm, 30, 9.3, 375 and 12 bore.
All but one one shot kills.
Good barrels work fine. If you ignore Barnes instructions they won't shoot.
That's usually the problem.
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man come and take you away
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,591 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 3,591 Likes: 2 |
I have good results with Bore Tech Eliminator.
Wag more, bark less.
The freedoms we surrender today will be the freedoms our grandchildren will never know existed.
The men who wrote the Second Amendment didn't just finish a hunting trip, they just finished liberating a nation.
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