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Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by Yoder409
9mm will.

10mm will better.

Too bad they don't make an 11mm.

10mm is hard to beat in a auto loader.

My constant companion is a G29 for just that reason.


You wanna be me so bad you can't stand it.

Wollen nicht krank dein feind. Planen es.
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Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not according to Jeff Cooper. You need at least a .40 in his opinion, and a .45 is best.
A friend says 40 is a minimum, calls a 9mm a cupcake round.


Only Boomers working on dated information disregard the 9mm as a defensive round. Bullet engineering has come a long ways in the last 30 years.

Boomers paid attention when bullet engineering progressed in all calibers as well.

We heard about the Boxer Rebellion before you did also, but not before John M Browning did. He did something about it.

He also said the 9mm Luger and the .38 special revolvers were fine weapons but his invention was better against bad guys on drugs running towards the trenches.


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Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not according to Jeff Cooper. You need at least a .40 in his opinion, and a .45 is best.
A friend says 40 is a minimum, calls a 9mm a cupcake round.


Only Boomers working on dated information disregard the 9mm as a defensive round. Bullet engineering has come a long ways in the last 30 years.

Boomers paid attention when bullet engineering progressed in all calibers as well.

We heard about the Boxer Rebellion before you did also, but not before John M Browning did. He did something about it.

He also said the 9mm Luger and the .38 special was fine weapons but his invention was better against bad guys on drugs.
Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer deader than a 7mm-08?

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Originally Posted by TheLastLemming76
Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not according to Jeff Cooper. You need at least a .40 in his opinion, and a .45 is best.
A friend says 40 is a minimum, calls a 9mm a cupcake round.


Only Boomers working on dated information disregard the 9mm as a defensive round. Bullet engineering has come a long ways in the last 30 years.

Boomers paid attention when bullet engineering progressed in all calibers as well.

We heard about the Boxer Rebellion before you did also, but not before John M Browning did. He did something about it.

He also said the 9mm Luger and the .38 special was fine weapons but his invention was better against bad guys on drugs.
Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer deader than a 7mm-08?

That's a stupid question. Nobody mentioned "deader".


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Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by TheLastLemming76
Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not according to Jeff Cooper. You need at least a .40 in his opinion, and a .45 is best.
A friend says 40 is a minimum, calls a 9mm a cupcake round.


Only Boomers working on dated information disregard the 9mm as a defensive round. Bullet engineering has come a long ways in the last 30 years.

Boomers paid attention when bullet engineering progressed in all calibers as well.

We heard about the Boxer Rebellion before you did also, but not before John M Browning did. He did something about it.

He also said the 9mm Luger and the .38 special was fine weapons but his invention was better against bad guys on drugs.
Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer deader than a 7mm-08?

That's a stupid question. Nobody mentioned "deader".
Okay how about quicker. Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer quicker than a 7mm-08?

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CNS trauma is what stops an assailant...

Bullet engineering is important to that delivery.

Shot/shots placed determines CNS trauma.

It ain't rocket science...


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I can’t answer the OP’s question because I haven’t shot anything but paper with my 9mm.

I broke down and bought one for the capacity, primarily. That said, it’s a full-sized 19+1 and not exactly ideal for CC. But I lose interest (or faith) in 9mm if it’s anything much less than that.

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I am confident enough in a 9mm that I carry one often


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Either one is fine. Our agency is now transitioning back to 9mm from the the 40 cal. The reasoning is not effectiveness of one over the other. The reasoning is more rounds in the gun and more hits due to a slightly less recoil impulse. Last, Glock offered a crazy deal on the cost of the switch over. We are carrying the the Federal 40 cal. 180 gr HST and will be carrying the Federal 9mm HST 147gr. Absent a CSN shot and instant drop, out of the fight result ,using a standard pistol round to stop a threat is like using a small hammer to drive a big nail. It can be done but, the results are not always ideal and vary widely. People often do not know they are hit and the effect of the hits can take awhile to be observable. some people are dead on the their feet but do not know they are dead. Hence the need to keep reevaluating that threat and reengaging or disengaging as needed.

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I remember reading about a criminal that was high on a PCP getting in a shootout in Illinois with the police. He had been hit 51 times with their issued 9mm rounds and was still returning fire. They stopped him with a 12 ga. slug to the neck cutting his spine in two.

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CNS, meshemess. Priority 1 in self defense is to incapacitate, not kill. Don’t think it matters a lot what you shoot someone with as opposed to where.

So, maybe it’s dark and you’re excited a bit. Nobody goes anywhere without their bellybutton. Shoot’m in the gut and they’re done. On the deck, cryin’ like a little girl.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Originally Posted by TheLastLemming76
Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by TheLastLemming76
Originally Posted by Gibby
Originally Posted by stevelyn
Originally Posted by ol_mike
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Not according to Jeff Cooper. You need at least a .40 in his opinion, and a .45 is best.
A friend says 40 is a minimum, calls a 9mm a cupcake round.


Only Boomers working on dated information disregard the 9mm as a defensive round. Bullet engineering has come a long ways in the last 30 years.

Boomers paid attention when bullet engineering progressed in all calibers as well.

We heard about the Boxer Rebellion before you did also, but not before John M Browning did. He did something about it.

He also said the 9mm Luger and the .38 special was fine weapons but his invention was better against bad guys on drugs.
Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer deader than a 7mm-08?

That's a stupid question. Nobody mentioned "deader".
Okay how about quicker. Do you believe that a .308 Win kills deer quicker than a 7mm-08?

This is like talking to a teenage girl. Geez


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Yes


Livin ain’t killed me yet, but it’s workin on it!
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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
It’s not the gun so much as the shooter that matters.

I think the 9mm is a pussy cartridge. 😁
Uh, not compared to some others.. And loaded with the right bullet (ala Lehigh Defense stuff) it can be quite effective..


Originally Posted by ol_mike
some models hold a lot of ammo.
Yep - and those might be needed more in an urban environment like Murderapolis than in the middle of, say, South Dakota... Just sayin'...


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LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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No, but a person with a 9mm can.


Save our kids - shoot your local drug dealer.
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Given my proficiency with a handgun...I've been thinking a handheld claymore may be the ideal self defense round. Quite a few years ago, I saw a 1000# water buffalo that had tripped one...game over.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Originally Posted by cs2blue
Either one is fine. Our agency is now transitioning back to 9mm from the the 40 cal. The reasoning is not effectiveness of one over the other. The reasoning is more rounds in the gun and more hits due to a slightly less recoil impulse. Last, Glock offered a crazy deal on the cost of the switch over. We are carrying the the Federal 40 cal. 180 gr HST and will be carrying the Federal 9mm HST 147gr. Absent a CSN shot and instant drop, out of the fight result ,using a standard pistol round to stop a threat is like using a small hammer to drive a big nail. It can be done but, the results are not always ideal and vary widely. People often do not know they are hit and the effect of the hits can take awhile to be observable. some people are dead on the their feet but do not know they are dead. Hence the need to keep reevaluating that threat and reengaging or disengaging as needed.

More female recruits over the years pushed the transition back to the 9mm. They complained that the 40 cal had too much recoil, plus Glock reps (former Leos) pushed it for more money

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Our experience was similar with some our our Deputies expressing an interest in the lighter recoiling of the 9mm. Complaining about the snappy recoil of the 40 cal. We, range instructors proposed taking a portion of our consistently lowest shooters and allowing them to carry 9mms. The management denied our request under the notion that in a gunfire there could be ammo compatibility issues with the different calibers. We countered with "hits win gun fights" and we do not practice sharing magazines or the transfer of magazines while shooting and were again denied. once the admin saw other agencies switching back to the 9mm then they decided and found the funding to switch. Nothing more then a newer, shinier can opener! Then it was a great idea.

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The best firearms instructors in law enforcement that I've ever met were pushing for 9mm and quality projectiles twenty years ago.

It's a no-brainer.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless, tasteless and clueless as usual.

Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Originally Posted by martinstrummer
Rather have a 9mm than a sharp stick!
Rather have my .40 than a 9mm!
+1


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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