Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Stirring the pot - pre 64 Winchesters

PS The esthetics of the 70 were being sacrificed for higher profits a few years before 1964, also, revealed by such things as switching to a plastic butt plate vs steel, and lower quality checkering on the stock. Some of the latest pre-64 specimens weren't quite up to the reputation, but pre-1962, they were pretty universally very nice rifles. Pre-war, even better.

Blasphemy!

I wouldn't grab a 700 for anything.

Mention "Pre-64 M70" and the term "bean counter" inevitably enters the conversation. I think it's a rule. Kind of like the mandatory use of the word "insipient" when talking about case head separation in an article.

Winchester is a business, and the primary goal of any business is to make money. Had Winchester continued to offer the original version the cost would have gone up dramatically and fewer and fewer rifles would have been sold. They made a choice to manufacture a more build friendly version and kept the doors open. It's always easy to judge in hindsight.

Once a good gunsmith gets a hold of the action ,they are tolerable. Nice looking rifle for sure.

I've read that the pre-war Model 70s were the finest, labor after the war got expensive and quality started to slip in the 50s up until 64 when the rifle was overhauled. Still, I find nothing wrong with the post 64 push feeds as a quality hunting rifle. A pre-war 70 is much like a Rolex divers watch, not for everyone but those who can relate to the quality of a fine thing, well designed, purpose driven and well executed.

I like the pre 64 70s. But there are problem rifles among any of them too.

The way I see it is true the younger guys fall for all the advertised hype and long range small caliber high BC fast twist stuff
A percentage of these guys will find a passion for the hunt and figure out the advertised hula is not nessesary and figure out that a pre64 mod 70 in 30/06 will do everything pretty well
Is older guys went through that same thing when the belted mag craze hit.
I recall thinking my 03 Springfield was a thing of the past and just had to have a7 mag and 243
I find them both useless for my needs today

I have a pre-64 standard grade 30-06. For a while I had a more recent 30-06 M70.
I used to take them out to the club and shoot one box of ammo I'd loaded for matches a long time ago.
Group size was slightly smaller but more uniform with the old one. The stock on the new one fit me better. Old one feels a little clunky. Trigger goes slightly to post.
Kept the old one for sentimentality. Was an old buddies gun.

Certainly a pre 64 fwt in a quality synthetic stock makes a fine hunting rifle!

Pre 64 model 70's are cool as can be and will probably always have a cult following but they are largely responsible for this fascination with controlled round feed which is one of the biggest loads of crap that has ever been foisted on the shooting public. Everything we have learned about seriously accurate rifles over the last 50 years we've learned from the Remington 700. There's a reason for that.

Frankly? Neither. There's a reason all my serious hunting rifles are based on 98 Mauser actions. I'm not saying the pre-64 M70s are bad rifles. I'm just saying I think the Mauser is better.
PJ

Bugs, ask yourself what the origin of controlled round feed was, then ponder if it just might be useful now and then.

I would grab my post-64 stainless CF 375 H&H M70 which I have done and will do again next year. But it has had a stock replacement by the previous owner. Without the stock replacement it would go as well. Same can be said for my 30-06 FN Mauser that is not modified and worked in Namibia. My M700 rebore worked fine on a grizzly and black bear hunt in BC. My Ruger M77 35 Whelen did the same on an elk/moose horseback hunt in BC.

Controlled Round Feed was never about accuracy. It was about reliability (it prevented user-caused feeding flubs), and was mainly a concern among dangerous game hunters, and (in the days before semiautomatics) military procurement people.

mnmarluney: You are publishing your won stupidity by TRYING to demean a whole class of really wonderful, classy, reliable, valuable firearms!
Needless to say you have failed miserably (probably a lifelong trait!) in your pathetic attempt.
No need for the likes of you to wear any asbestos garments - you would be better served with a "tinfoil hat".
Sad and pathetic attempt at "attention whoring" by you - I surmise.
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a pre 64 model 88 and my son has a pre 64 model 70 Featherweight 308. Those are our main hunting rifles. I have a couple post 63 model 94's. A 30-30 and a 32. I used to have the same pair in pre 64s but they left due to their value. I find the post 63 model 94's work just fine

The Pre 64 was and still is a great firearm. It was expensive to manufacture. Remington tooled up to make a CRF M720 in 1941-44. It was a fine rifle and only 2.5k or so were produced. It has become a Holy Grail of Remington production since the government ended up with them. They made a few m30 after the war from parts they had on hand. The M700 was pretty much a genius design allowing for an accurate rifle produced on the assembly line from single purpose production machinery. It drove Winchester to produce the post 64 push feed design in order to compete. Their advertising along with Mike Walker and Jim Stekl winning Benchrest matches were a one-up for Remington. That was back in the day when Remington actually had craftsmen on the line at the factory. Production costs and Unions have hit all companies but Remington took some bad turns by settling court cases that weren't actually their fault and not changing the trigger design to a less foolproof mechanism.
There are no dual opposed lug bolt action rifles that do not impose on at least one of Paul Mauser's patents. That design is still going strong.
All designs can be improved on and CNC machinery has allowed precision manufacture to blossom into a new level of precision. The M12 is better balanced but it has it's own parts breakage. It'll take a lot of abuse before it breaks though. The M870 is heavier and not so well balanced but it is decent enough.
Many of the great stockers are gone now and many hunters have gravitated to synthetics. That Goens stocked M70 is a fine rifle. We have some good stockers and gun builders today that can compete very well with the older generation, but prices are higher and good wood is hard to come by.

I only have one pre 64 model 70. Chambered in 300HH. It's the back up for my Mauser. It's a fine rifle, it just doesn't fit me well. I will take any pre-64 Model 70 offered, if the price is fair. As far as lever action pre-64, they take second place to my 99 Savage, all day long!

Very good knowledgeable post. I enjoy some older Win bolt actions, but favor Mausers for the most part.