Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters New Ruger's Hawkeye's Awful Accuracy

How many accuracy arguments have been started by Ruger 77's over the years? Too many to count.

I haven't owned or shot a Hawkeye yet. A friend and hunting partner just bought a new one, .270 not .375 Ruger and obviously not the Alaskan. He doesn't shoot much. 3 trips to the range in a year is good for him (and one of them will be right before hunting season ). He is a remarkably good shot, considering, and despite all that.

That said, he took his new rifle to the range last week with another of our hunting partners to dial it in and see what it would do. After getting it in right at 50, he moved over to 100. His first shot center holed the bull, second was almost touching, third was touching the second. I haven't measured the group, but I saw it and I'm guessing it's under MOA slightly.

Maybe he got lucky, sure. Maybe not. Yes, it's only one group. Point is, he now thinks Ruger makes one he!! of an accurate rifle. The fact that he doesn't shoot much may disqualify him in some eyes, true, but guys that don't shoot much make up the bulk of the hunting population, much as it may pain some of us. Put him on here and what do you think he'll say in this thread?

I don't think the Ruger accuracy argument is going to go away, neither will the Remington Model 7/700/7600 one, or the M70 one, or the Kimber one, or the . . .

It's not right to extrapolate from one rifle to an entire model of rifle in every other caliber, especially when the experience is with some oddball, hard-kicking specialty rifle.

A lightweight carbine firing a 270-grain bullet at 2600+ fps is going to be a challenge for a human to shoot small groups, whatever its locked down inherent accuracy may be.

All my .375 H&Hs have been really accurate, but they all had 23 to 25 inch barrels, and weighed at least 9 lbs with iron sights.

I sure would'nt let that report , of an 8lb rifle delivering nearly 5000 ft lbs energy at the muzzle grouping 2 to 3 MOA with one brand of factory ammo , scare me off from puchasing that model rifle .

I've seen alot of such testfires published in the American Rifleman over the years , and MANY of the groups run around 3 moa , yes with such accuracy known guns as M-700 s and Savage 110 s .

I've also owned quite a few Ruger rifles over the years and all shot acceptably , and many superbly .

I guess my MAIN POINT went unnoticed. I did't write that post just to knock Ruger (which is why I mentioned my Remington) - my main point is that many "cheap" rifles are capable of great accuracy out of the box, and I'm wondering - why they all can't achieve this?

In addition, I don't think buying rifles should be a crap shoot.

You should know how well it will shoot - ALL makes should either carry a guarantee, or a set of shot targets with load info showing what that rifle can do - OR a policy that will let you return rifles that don't measure up to what most people expect out of a modern firearm.

Rather than the present "Take a chance - and if it can't shoot - sell it off to some other sucker" mentality that seems to be the expected norm, with some companies now.

My Remington Ti is my most expensive rifle. It had, without a doubt, the worst accuracy (out of the box) of any rifle I've ever bought. Combine that with Remington's "You pays your money and you take your chances." attitude when I complained about it was enough - and is enough - to make me vow I'll never buy another, unless I know it can shoot first. This attitude, by some companies, is, to me, unforgivable.

I'll agree with Brian's original post. This particular rifle didn't shoot well enough for me to want it, for whatever reason. If someone wants to ignore this report and buy that model of rifle, go for it. I'd want to find out more about this rifle's accuracy before plunking down my money.

My son had a Rem 700 Mt. rifle that started spaying groups wider and wider. At about 4 inch groups I phoned Remington and the customer service gal told me that if the rifle shot six inch groups or under it met factory specs well enough not to replace the rifle under warranty. When the rifle spread out to 12 inch groups they replaced the synthetic stock, which by then we had figured out was the problem. Remington did not impress me however with being satisfied with a 6 inch group.

IMO, buying a new Remington (and other brands) has become like buying a project. Why buy something that needs after market parts and tweaking to get it to shoot like my son's Tikkas do right out of the box?

Brian,

I agree with you that buying a factory rifle should not be such a crap shoot. The thing is that six new factory rifles that I bought in the last three years including Browning A bolts,Remington M700s,and a Winchester M70 featherweight in 300wsm all shot three factory rounds in less than an inch.

Let me tell you my secret,I pray about it and ask the Good Lord to help me pick a good shooter. The priniciple is found in the New Testament where James in his brief epistle tells people to pray for wisdom in the choices they make. It seems to work in other area of life besides rifles too.


Good luck in picking your next gun,

Britt

Astounding! I like it. It worked in picking a wife. Hadn't applied it to rifles. Merry Christmas!

Couple comments

All good things take a little work and time

Acceptable hunting accuracy is not the same as Bench Rest MOA paper punching.

I think we are getting our hopes too high on what is "good" for accuracy.

For the gun you mentioned, the accuracy is not too bad out of the box. Shoot it, play with it, have some fun, tweak it, and go hunting. Great gun that will outlive us all.

Would that be the beltless 375 ruger. The barrel should be 26 inchs and it should weigh a pound more then the accuracy would come back.

I understand your main point... you are essentially saying that in your opinion, all rifles should be sold with an accuracy guarantee.

This concept does have some merit, but unfortunately, that is not currently the way things are...or have ever been. This could be done, but it is a cost issue...manufacturers only make the rifles as good as they need to be to sell to the marketplace...so that's all you're gonna get.

Some manufacturers do currently offer this option, but most manufacturers don't. If a consumer wants a rifle with an accuracy guarantee, he will have to buy a rifle from a manufacturer that currently offers one. As they are still under the UCC, if there is really something wrong with a rifle, most manufacturers will fix it if their feet are held to the fire.

Also, most of the large manufacturers DO have custom shops...and anyone can order their rifle through that division, but that small number of end-users that really need match accuracy can have a custom rig built much more cheaply on their own dime. If a big manufacturer made some of the excellent rifles we see here on this board they would likely cost 5x more than what the smaller custom smiths charged them.

At least, at this point the consumer still has that choice to make...and he should exercise it before 2009 rolls around.

TC

My latest rifle, a M700 30-06 is just about as "good" as that M77 alaskan. Three different powders with the 180 partition have left me wondering what groups smaller than 3" look like. It has a ring about 1/4" back from the muzzle where the pilot on their crowning tool scored the rifling, and a large gouge in a land about an inch further back from that. Since it beats 6" though, from what was said above, it doesn't look like Big Green would touch it.

My Ruger African shot 3 inch groups with factory and half-inch groups with handloads. My Alaskan shoots 1.5 inch groups at 200 yards with handloads.

Yup , and I would be mighty surprised if the rifle in the article did not do the same , maybe with some minor tuning.........a few quick groups with one or two types of factory ammo is just not a fair test of accuracy potential , IMO....

On the guarantee issue, it used to be that Scheel's sporting goods stores would have a one month guarantee on their rifles, where you could exchange it in that time if unhappy with the gun or the way it shot. I never had to test it and don't know if they still offer it, but that is one of the things that has kept me doing business with them. It would be nice if the makers stood behind their products in a similar way.

ANY time you "disrespect" someone's rifle they get defensive and swear up and down you're nuts and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with their rifle or any rifle like it...

All that being said it seems to me that I've read a LOT of complaints from Ruger MK2 rifle owners in the last few years about poor accuracy and my experiences have borne it out. I think Ruger needs to get more serious about accuracy in their rifles.

As far as the Remington issue with the "non-magnum" Titanium rifles. Well... It was a bit shameful that Remington didn't address the problem better but at least they DID discontinue the thin whippy barreled Ti rifles and went to the "magnum contour" on ALL of them and provided fluting to somewhat mitigate the increased weight in the Alaskan Ti models.

$bob$

I haven't seen anything outside of anectdotal information on the subject.

My new LH SS Laminate Ruger 77 MK 2 06 no mods shoots well. Have only shot it a little but it shows promise.
165 Nosler BT 3 @ 100yd .426"
" 3100yd 1.054"
168 Barnes TSX 3 @100yd 2.11"
165 Nosler Part 3@ 100yd 2.6"
" 3100yd 1.4"
200 Gr Speer 3100yd .61"

You mean you're not going to let a second-hand account of a magazine article lead you to demand a refund ?

DN

Having owned several Rugers,my own experience makes me believe if you can't shoot tiny groups with one,you simply can't shoot.
Mike

Hmmm Brian, I was hoping Ruger would've focused on making their M77's a little more accurate these days. I've only had one report on the Hawkeye and it wasn't good either--too bad, because the satin blueing was gorgeous, and fit and finish was nice on the rifle.

In all my years, I've had 3-4 rifles in Remington, Ruger, Winchester that would only go about 2 inches despite my best tuning and handloads--even my old M720's and Pre64 M70's will do 1 1/2 inch groups or better.

The newest rifle I have is a 2003 vintage M700 in 243W. Factory Core-Lokts and Federal Premium Partitions would do about 1 3/4 inch groups, but as soon as I cobbled together some handloads it would turn 1 inch five shot groups. A little tweaking with some 95 grain BT's would get me 3/4 inch five shot groups.

Man, I'm surprised/dissapointed to hear your Ti wouldn't do better than that!

When I was back in school 5-6 years ago, a fellow adult wildlife student fresh out of the military wanted a new elk hunting rifle. Tried to talk him into a M700, but he went for a M70 30-06 in the plain jain wrapper.

We went out to the range, I set him up with bags and a rest, and with factory Silvertips he promptly turned several groups easily under an inch! And here I am am with tuned factory rigs and custom barreled rigs--with carefully concocted handloads....and am thrilled to keep hunting loads at an inch or less

Just to "prove" those groups, we went out a couple of weeks later and my college buddy did it again!......

I always try Ballistic Tips in a rifle--it seems to be a good bullet to find out if the rifle is accurate or just plain picky--or won't cut the mustard.


Casey