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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,296 Likes: 24 |
T Inman; Good afternoon my cyber friend, I trust you had a good Christmas wherever you spent it and that you're well. While I'm loath and somewhat ashamed to admit it T, I would have been in the camp of folks shooting too far at coyotes, simply because they were coyotes and I wanted them gone. In the late '80's when we started hunting coyotes to sell the hides to a local trapper, I amended my ways because I wanted to retrieve it and emphatically didn't want to educate them. As you mention, we could have another discussion on educating coyotes for sure. Nowadays I might stretch my shots a wee bit further with a coyote, but part of the rationale there is that a peripheral hit with a .223" varmint bullet - 60gr HP in a .223 and 55gr Ballistic Tip in an old school 1:14 .22-.250AI - will be fatal, usually instantly fatal from what we've seen. We can sometimes give away coyote hides here, depending on condition, but both because I've changed my perspective as I've aged and no, I do not want to educate them, personally I don't shoot at a dog unless I'm sure I can kill it. Happy New Year to you, I hope that next year is better and all ways for you and as always, the coffee is on for you if you ever wander past. Dwayne I can relate Dwayne....on most every one of those accounts.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
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So I always here all the LR hunting haters talking about all the crippled big game animals walking around and how every year so many have to be put down because of bad shots from LR guys yadda yadda . And many times they say there's like charts or something you can look up and see the proof. Has anyone ever seen one of these or fish and game analytics or something? Like I'm legit curious because everytime I've asked these people for proof, no link, no whatever to look up ,just "O WHY IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME" . So. Any actual numbers like they say or ? I'm sorry about your stroke.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I suspect there are as many cripples by people that shouldn't be hunting in the first place as there are by LR shooters. Shooting at long range is never required unless your a military snipper and even then instructions are to get close as you can. The farther away the target is the more things that can go wrong. But even worse for me is the close range people that simply can't shoot and make no effort to improve. I remember a guy I met in Montana years ago at a rifle range. He said shooting at 100 yds little groups ain't my thing but run a piece of meat by me. I simply walked away disgusted with him! Yet I still frown on this thing called long range hunting which is nothing more than long range shooting. Big difference between shooting and actually hunting. I do shoot target's at longer range than I'll hunt but believe shooting at long range for practice makes me better at reasonable range. Not practicing at all cramps my style!
Last edited by DonFischer; 12/27/23.
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I'm STILL not seeing any of these high brow holier than thou LR haters define what "long range" is. A few have said in vague terms it's further than they're comfortable shooting. The ONLY thing they can agree equally on, and are loudest about, is that "it's not hunting it's just shooting". So define what you hate, or shut the f-uck up about it already.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,730 Likes: 2 |
I do shoot target's at longer range than I'll hunt but believe shooting at long range for practice makes me better at reasonable range. Not practicing at all cramps my style! I am the same Don. I am a TR shooter, but hunt with both irons and low power scopes at less than half the longest distance I shoot my match rifles at . :>) Cat
scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Sometimes you hunt areas where you could be shooting 50 yards or 450 and never know where the game will show up, if your not shooting 500+ not much use to dial. Oh BTW while your showing targets. 3 shots at 750 yards, shot prone off a bipod https://imgur.com/x7as2zgIt ain't hard And also it's not guessing, +3" at 100 with most modern cartridges = 100 yards, hold lower shoulder, 200 yards hold mid shoulder, 300 yards hold upper shoulder 400 yards hold on hairline Run the numbers and prove me wrong It's always better to dial or use a good reticle. If you feel comfortable guessing your imaginary hold overs, more power to you. People like you are probably part of the reason this thread exists. Just a thought. I always like to be sure of the shot I'm going to take. You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards. You are just digging yourself deeper, with stupid remarks. Again, if you are the guy shooting 6-7" groups at 100 yards, you have no business at all trying to poke them further out. for one thing ballistics is just simple math, the holdovers are not imaginary, if you are convinced they are show me the numbers, prove your bullshit or STFU! its that simple This pretty much proves you can't fix stupid, where do you aim? " You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards."
If your going through hell, keep on going, don't look back, If your scared don't show it. You might get out b'fore the devil even knows your there. (Rodney Atkins)
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2023
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how many folks bitching about long range hunting have ever shot a deer beyond 600 yards? how many folks have witnessed what happens on a bad hit at long range? how do deer respond to it? If you can't answer that question, your arguement is bullshit, that is a fact! Hay good to see you here bud. hey wolfie, a bit different atmosphere than T-man eh? Egh about the same , honestly I feel this is like t-man after dark ,buncha old guys having online dick measuring competitions , repeating the same [bleep] day in and day out few good folks who have actual info,at least I don't have mod responsibilities here and don't have to be polite like I usually have to lol. Gotta say though most of the insults and what no on here are weaker then Bidens mental state Still better then Greybeards or predator masters tho I guess Might make a post about why 6.5 creed is better then .270 or something and see what happens
Last edited by Wolfdog91; 12/27/23.
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Campfire Regular
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BTW folks here is 4 shots at 1004 yards from an AR-10 chambered 6.5 creed with a 9 mph crosswind [Linked Image]
Last edited by Ridge_Runner; 12/27/23.
If your going through hell, keep on going, don't look back, If your scared don't show it. You might get out b'fore the devil even knows your there. (Rodney Atkins)
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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In 1990 I believe, the Arizona game and fish commission was only one vote shy of cancelling Archery Elk hunting in Arizona due to the number of elk wounded by bow hunters. I don't remember the exact figures but it was like 3 elk wounded for every elk recovered. They just could stomach that statistic and i can't really say i blame them. I suspect there are a fair number of cripples due to guys buying " package" hunting rifles that suddenly make them long range hunters.
" I just spent $10 k at Gunwurks, i can automatically make 1000 yard shots"... I suspect a guy that just bought a gunwerks rifle with no knowledge couldn't even come close to an animal much less wound one at 1000. Probably even 500 to be honest.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2023
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for one thing ballistics is just simple math, the holdovers are not imaginary, if you are convinced they are show me the numbers, prove your bullshit or STFU! its that simple
This pretty much proves you can't fix stupid, where do you aim? " You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards." You have PLENTY of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, then you haven't done your job staying concealed...and you have no business whatsoever attempting a shot. Let it walk. It's that simple.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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What do folks think about coyotes being gunned at beyond admitted abilities, simply because they're coyotes?
I've come across several people over the years who seemingly have a conscious limit to shots they'll take on deer or elk, but wail away at coyotes without any regard to their shooting ability, simply because it is 'just a coyote'.
Taking a 1000 yard shot by just aiming 10 feet high is a surefire way to educate a coyote, but that is a different discussion. why will idiots stretch their max shot distance on a buck of a lifetime but not on a doe. That always made zero sense. Lots of does. If I was going to stretch it would be on them and not on a needle in a haystack. on that one I"d get even closer if I could than my comfortable range. I can and will shoot a long ways given the right conditions. 1000 plus does not bother me at all. there aren't that many days I feel comfortable that far out though. I will say this. I've hunted since I can recall grandpa holding a 22 up for me to shoot. I've done most any way. Lots and lots of archery. Compound, crossbow, recurve, long bow. Wood arrows stone heads. Etc... handguns, shot deer with 380 acp. Shotguns. Rifles. 50 bmg. Longest shot on a game animal was shy of 1000 just a bit. One shot one kill. Its a lot more work to be able to take the long shot, than it is to learn to get closer and take and easier shot. Was easy to get 100-200 or less of most deer we shot when I was younger. We did not hunt out west so there is that. But it took many many years of shooting to be confident to 500 or 600. Even more beyond that. If I am not confident that I can hit a clay target or really close then I refuse the shot. With whatever I have at whatever distance I am at. And FWIW We have wounded more deer at less than 300 yards than beyond 300 yards.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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for one thing ballistics is just simple math, the holdovers are not imaginary, if you are convinced they are show me the numbers, prove your bullshit or STFU! its that simple
This pretty much proves you can't fix stupid, where do you aim? " You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards." You have PLENTY of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, then you haven't done your job staying concealed...and you have no business whatsoever attempting a shot. Let it walk. It's that simple. Concealed at 400 yards, the thought that game would see you at 400 yards is idiotic, pronghorn maybe, whitetails never
If your going through hell, keep on going, don't look back, If your scared don't show it. You might get out b'fore the devil even knows your there. (Rodney Atkins)
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3 |
Concealed at 400 yards, the thought that game would see you at 400 yards is idiotic, pronghorn maybe, whitetails never Your circle is pretty small.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 27 |
I'm a short range meat hunter by definition, but could care less whether someone shoots close up, or to the horizon. I'm much more interested/judgemental in how I do it than how you do it.
I would imagine, considering how many folk hunt game in total vs. how many hunt long range, the the number of critters wounded by long range shooter would be exponentially less than what are taken as a whole.
YMMV
ya!
GWB
Last edited by geedubya; 12/27/23.
A Kill Artist. When I draw, I draw blood.
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Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 1,996 Likes: 8
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2023
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for one thing ballistics is just simple math, the holdovers are not imaginary, if you are convinced they are show me the numbers, prove your bullshit or STFU! its that simple
This pretty much proves you can't fix stupid, where do you aim? " You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards." You have PLENTY of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, then you haven't done your job staying concealed...and you have no business whatsoever attempting a shot. Let it walk. It's that simple. Concealed at 400 yards, the thought that game would see you at 400 yards is idiotic, pronghorn maybe, whitetails never I'm actually on your side, but it's easy to tell you don't hunt much. At least not in terms of fu cking knowing your game animals and how exponentially better their eyes are than yours. If you've seen them, there's very heavy odds they could see you first. If you're moving your fat ass without an effort to conceal your movement you'll instantly change their presentation from unaware to alert and that will make your shot that much harder....IF they give you the time to make it. I'll repeat, because you didn't hear it the first fu cking time. You have plenty of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, you suck at what you're doing.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3 |
[why will idiots stretch their max shot distance on a buck of a lifetime but not on a doe. Speaking out West. Because they didn’t burn 20 points for the hunt. Drew a hunt they may only get once in their life. A 190/200” mule deer is almost a unicorn these days. As tags get harder to draw and trophy class animals become even more scarce, it will continue and get worse. You can’t get “Insta Famous” with a 150” mule deer. Not defending any of it, but it is the reality.
Last edited by SLM; 12/27/23.
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2002
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for one thing ballistics is just simple math, the holdovers are not imaginary, if you are convinced they are show me the numbers, prove your bullshit or STFU! its that simple
This pretty much proves you can't fix stupid, where do you aim? " You also shouldn't be aiming at the "deer shoulder" at 400 yards." You have PLENTY of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, then you haven't done your job staying concealed...and you have no business whatsoever attempting a shot. Let it walk. It's that simple. Concealed at 400 yards, the thought that game would see you at 400 yards is idiotic, pronghorn maybe, whitetails never I'm actually on your side, but it's easy to tell you don't hunt much. At least not in terms of fu cking knowing your game animals and how exponentially better their eyes are than yours. If you've seen them, there's very heavy odds they could see you first. If you're moving your fat ass without an effort to conceal your movement you'll instantly change their presentation from unaware to alert and that will make your shot that much harder....IF they give you the time to make it. I'll repeat, because you didn't hear it the first fu cking time. You have plenty of time to range and dial at 400 yards. If you don't, you suck at what you're doing. I heard you the first time, a deer walking on a timbered ridge at 400 yards may or may not give you time to do much, you spot them with binocs, then you range, check your chart, dial then shoot, why not just range, hold, and shoot. faster than a moa or mil reticle. where I hunt have saw many deer that just walk behind a tree and never come out and you never see them again. here is an example of where I hunt. Its 307 yards to the cedars at the lower part of the pic at the field edge. have killed dozens of deer here
Last edited by Ridge_Runner; 12/27/23.
If your going through hell, keep on going, don't look back, If your scared don't show it. You might get out b'fore the devil even knows your there. (Rodney Atkins)
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Sometimes you hunt areas where you could be shooting 50 yards or 450 and never know where the game will show up, if your not shooting 500+ not much use to dial. Oh BTW while your showing targets. 3 shots at 750 yards, shot prone off a bipod https://imgur.com/x7as2zgIt ain't hard And also it's not guessing, +3" at 100 with most modern cartridges = 100 yards, hold lower shoulder, 200 yards hold mid shoulder, 300 yards hold upper shoulder 400 yards hold on hairline Run the numbers and prove me wrong Yeah right. As imgur.com says, "The Magic of the Internet"
Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 522
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 522 |
Sometimes you hunt areas where you could be shooting 50 yards or 450 and never know where the game will show up, if your not shooting 500+ not much use to dial. Oh BTW while your showing targets. 3 shots at 750 yards, shot prone off a bipod https://imgur.com/x7as2zgIt ain't hard And also it's not guessing, +3" at 100 with most modern cartridges = 100 yards, hold lower shoulder, 200 yards hold mid shoulder, 300 yards hold upper shoulder 400 yards hold on hairline Run the numbers and prove me wrong Yeah right. As imgur.com says, "The Magic of the Internet" your choice not to believe it, not iike me to call a vet out, have to much respect for that, it is what it is,, thank you for serving
If your going through hell, keep on going, don't look back, If your scared don't show it. You might get out b'fore the devil even knows your there. (Rodney Atkins)
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You're welcome, and thank you for the thank you. We don't hear it all that often.
Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
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