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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,563 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,563 Likes: 17 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Equipment data like rifles (action/stock/chamberings/bullets), optics(ie this thread!): scopes, binocs, spotters...that stuff. And AO's. That's why a lot of us come here. To learn that stuff... That's not the topic of this thread. Sorry, didn't mean to veer off topic. I have one of the lowest post:years here ratios of active users on the site. What WOULD be the appropriate thread to learn such? Give up trying to have a productive conversation with them. They are a drama queen with a pissy disposition.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,693
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,693 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Equipment data like rifles (action/stock/chamberings/bullets), optics(ie this thread!): scopes, binocs, spotters...that stuff. And AO's. That's why a lot of us come here. To learn that stuff... That's not the topic of this thread. Sorry, didn't mean to veer off topic. I have one of the lowest post:years here ratios of active users on the site. What WOULD be the appropriate thread to learn such? Give up trying to have a productive conversation with them. They are a drama queen with a pissy disposition. Gotcha. Thanks, Paul. Again, I'm an obvious few times a year poster...
You can no more tell someone how to do something you've never done, than you can come back from somewhere you've never been...
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Equipment data like rifles (action/stock/chamberings/bullets), optics(ie this thread!): scopes, binocs, spotters...that stuff. And AO's. That's why a lot of us come here. To learn that stuff... That's not the topic of this thread. Sorry, didn't mean to veer off topic. I have one of the lowest post:years here ratios of active users on the site. What WOULD be the appropriate thread to learn such? Give up trying to have a productive conversation with them. They are a drama queen with a pissy disposition. Hey I helped you out. Can't even say thanks?
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,923 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,923 Likes: 5 |
Yep, because his name in Ilya (not "Illya") Koshkin. . Hey, ain't that the guy from TV? You know, the one on 'The man from U.N.C.L.E.?
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Do you have any evidence Form gets paid by nightforce or forums? What kind of scope you using on those birds?
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Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 292
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 292 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Equipment data like rifles (action/stock/chamberings/bullets), optics(ie this thread!): scopes, binocs, spotters...that stuff. And AO's. That's why a lot of us come here. To learn that stuff... That's not the topic of this thread. Sorry, didn't mean to veer off topic. I have one of the lowest post:years here ratios of active users on the site. What WOULD be the appropriate thread to learn such? Give up trying to have a productive conversation with them. They are a drama queen with a pissy disposition. Gotcha. Thanks, Paul. Again, I'm an obvious few times a year poster... It's easy to fool a fool, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. Jman post your preferred culling device. I googled all you mentioned and it seems like you have a dream job. Pictures would be appreciated. PS form is full of [bleep] but I'd take him over a guy that hunts, owns guns and votes democrat.
Last edited by Jimmypop; 02/04/24.
Love Ksmïthïnhïzzër/fląvöřÐ.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
I want to say it was Shoot To Hunt episode 34 or 35.
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Do you have any evidence Form gets paid by nightforce or forums? What kind of scope you using on those birds? He asked me what I hunted this year. And I used a 20ga over/under.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
I want to say it was Shoot To Hunt episode 34 or 35. It's 34. I literally posted it.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,222 |
Yeah, I hadn't got caught up that far in the thread yet. I was being polite and answering Paul's question before I carried on reading the rest of this train wreck...
Why pack all that messy meat out of the bush when we can just go to the grocery store where meat is made? Hell,if they sold antlers I would save so much money I could afford to go Dolphin fishing. Maybe even a baby seal safari.
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,024 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,024 Likes: 1 |
I welcome someone testing equipment to see how robust it is. And like to read their findings.
I don't want to buy equipment that won't work when I spend hours and days sitting in the cold waiting for my shot. I don't like spending my money on unreliable equipment. I have with a brand that was pumped up for years as being good. It used to be and now it isn't anymore. I like to have information so I can make a choice.
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,162 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,162 Likes: 2 |
This thread is pure gold!
FWIW, I trust my own experience but I also enjoy learning from others. It just so happens that the most scope problems Ive had have been from cheap Vortex, Leupolds, and Swaros, so I don’t use them anymore. Those also happen to be Forms most common whipping boys. I listen to what Form says when it makes logical sense (like larger shot groups) and I tune out other times when it doesn’t (like never cleaning a barrel). I listen, but I don’t take everything as gospel. If anything, he brought the importance of zero retention to light as something the consumer should demand and I think scopes are or will be built better as a result.
As for Illya, I don’t place much stock in many of his thoughts because he doesn’t hunt, and that’s all I care about. And he’s on the Vortex take. And he seems weird.
One of life’s important skills these days is being able to separate the wheat from the chaff on the internet.
If you can’t you’re gonna get suckered.
Last edited by SDHNTR; 02/04/24.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 387 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Do you have any evidence Form gets paid by nightforce or forums? What kind of scope you using on those birds? He asked me what I hunted this year. And I used a 20ga over/under. Nice. I'm sure humping those high and dry plains is hell on gear. Hopefully that O/U didn't get scratched too bad, and I'd hate to know what torture your scopes got put through chasing antelopes.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,129
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,129 |
"The Illya guy" has been in the optics business for decades, both as an engineer and an executive in charge of various aspects from engineering to manufacturing, working for various companies. He's also a very avid shooter, who knows scopes both inside and outside, in the field. Pardon the pissing match for a second. Who is this "Illya guy" Here's his old website: https://opticsthoughts.com/
Pursuit may be, it seems to me, perfect without possession.
Robert Kelley Weeks (1840-1876)
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
I guarantee I hunt more than you think about hunting...and not from a heated box blind. Probably shoot more too.
Be outraged.
People hate form because he dare push back against the fuddlore wives tales do-nothing-betas live by. Just like you.
I only hunted about two months in total days...so you're right, you probably sat in your climate controlled blind far more than I hunted this yr. J_H, What species in what AO's did you hunt those two months? Would love to see success pics and equipment data...thanks! Species? Elk, antelope, huns, and chukar. Equipment data?? Do you have any evidence Form gets paid by nightforce or forums? What kind of scope you using on those birds? He asked me what I hunted this year. And I used a 20ga over/under. Nice. I'm sure humping those high and dry plains is hell on gear. Hopefully that O/U didn't get scratched too bad, and I'd hate to know what torture your scopes got put through chasing antelopes. Nice. I'm sure you do way more hard-core stuff. Feel free to enlighten us. Ps do you have any evidence Form gets paid by nightforce or forums?
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,855 Likes: 48
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,855 Likes: 48 |
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/vortex-lht-4-5-22-durability-test.7105709/post-9953953Interesting post from Ilya Koshkin about Formidilosus over on snipershide from 2022... might be old news to you guys but I thought it was interesting. He goes from forum to forum and bashes companies ….. I know that on at least a couple of forums he got paid to stick around, presumably because he spins a nice sounding story and attracts an audience. In case you were wondering why Form doesn't post here anymore, it looks like Rokslide is probably paying him to post over there.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,677 Likes: 9 |
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/vortex-lht-4-5-22-durability-test.7105709/post-9953953Interesting post from Ilya Koshkin about Formidilosus over on snipershide from 2022... might be old news to you guys but I thought it was interesting. He goes from forum to forum and bashes companies ….. I know that on at least a couple of forums he got paid to stick around, presumably because he spins a nice sounding story and attracts an audience. In case you were wondering why Form doesn't post here anymore, it looks like Rokslide is probably paying him to post over there. And he has denied that, as can be heard in episode 34 on the shoot2hunt podcast. Is there any evidence other than someone saying "they know"? Like how do they know, who told them? Who paid him? I think we'd all like to know. People are usually vague for a reason.....
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,864
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,864 |
Koshkin talking about another guy being a paid shill. Lol
That's rich.
I quit taking him seriously a long time ago when he rated a Vortex Diamondback as better than a Burris Fullfield II. When I tried both, the Diamondback wasn't even close.
My personal experience is much closer to Form's. I've had better luck with Tasco than I have with Vortex. Meanwhile my SWFA SS have all been very durable. Not the best glass, but very durable.
Last edited by slowr1der; 02/04/24.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,207
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,207 |
Blindly trusting any anonymous online user doesn’t seem like a good practice. How true!
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638 |
People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the “top shooters” are getting sponsored…. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Form’s scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so I’m inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? I think a top shooter might have to send scopes back for defects or repairs often and not disclose it to the public.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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