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This is all you need to know about faith and proof of the existence of God.
Romans 1
16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, just as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
So the faith we must have is not faith that God exists, He said thats a given by proof of creation and if you still don't believe then you are willfully ignorant and suppressing the truth. So the faith we must have is to believe and accept the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. Well said
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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You boys really need to give a break and go yank your puds. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/m2hzVfH4/Screenshot-20240317-223843-Duck-Duck-Go.jpg) Does she really exist though, in real life? Don't know. Can't see her fingers so that's a clue. Last time I checked the basement thread about 1/3 of the new entries were AI generated. People like to make fictions, be they pictures or stories, especially if they sever a purpose such as getting people to act a certain way, making money, or filling an offering plate.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
Faith is trusting in what you have good evidence to believe is true.
Many signs of historical criteria provide evidence of the historicity and reliability of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Signs of historical criteria like multiple attestation and eyewitness testimony, the criterion of embarrassment, textual overlap with independent ancient Jewish historians, and the presence of early oral creeds all testify that Jesus was a real Jewish person who lived in Judea, had followers, and was crucified (which is the scholarly consensus), as well as the finding of an empty tomb by women, followed by post-crucifixion appearances. It’s enough to more than get the attention of honest skeptical scholars. Biblical faith is considered to be a trust and confidence in God based on evidence but without total proof. Jesus Himself said to “believe on the evidence.” But among all definitions of faith, the common theme is trust. I think Antlers is right on that point. Depends on how you define 'evidence.' If you define evidence as something written in old scrolls, then there is plenty of evidence for all sorts of wonders. I think it is a form of evidence, but not sure if it would be "admissible evidence" as you can't cross-examine the author. Especially since the Gospel authors were anonymous and written at least decades after the alleged events.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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The probability of the universe existing, the probability of it existing and being so vast, whether by the hand of God or not by the hand of God, is so low that it is close to zero. It is just unbelievable that existence exists - no matter how it came about. Yet we know it does exist. The probability argument and the vastness argument therefore does not swing things in favor of "no god", in fact it swings things in favor of "god". If on the balance of probabilities that god exists, then which god? No one has come up with a better explanation of what constitutes god that what we have in the West. God created the Universe. Who Create God? The believers argument here always ends with the logical fallacy of Special Pleading.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Given our limited understanding of the universe, we don't know what the probability of the existence of the universe is.
It may appear improbable to us, yet the universe exists and unlike God - whatever that's supposed to be - we have abundent evidence for its existence.
Unlike 'God,' a word without references or evidence, we need no faith to accept the reality of the universe. You have exactly the same evidence of God as you have of the universe. You have not personally seen or experienced the universe. You don't know of anything outside your own experience except from what others tell you. You simply choose what you are willing to believe. The only difference is that the belief of the universe beyond your personal experience has not been believed nearly as long, or by as many people as the existence of God. Depends on how you define experience. I've seen the Hubble deep field images. That is a personal experience.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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You boys really need to give a break and go yank your puds. Does she really exist though, in real life? NO
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2008
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason?
NRA Member - Life, Benefactor, Patron
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
This is all you need to know about faith and proof of the existence of God.
Romans 1
16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, just as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
So the faith we must have is not faith that God exists, He said thats a given by proof of creation and if you still don't believe then you are willfully ignorant and suppressing the truth. So the faith we must have is to believe and accept the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. Don, Read that passage very carefully, then contemplate what you choice of those verses says about YOU.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? You complain like a woman.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,828 Likes: 7
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? The same reason that NFL haters can't NOT click on a thread discussing the playoffs, the draft, etc. Human nature
DON’T BE TOO PROUD OF THIS TECHNOLOGICAL TERROR YOU’VE CONSTRUCTED. THE ABILITY TO DESTROY A PLANET IS INSIGNIFICANT NEXT TO THE POWER OF THE FORCE.
- Darth Vader
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Given our limited understanding of the universe, we don't know what the probability of the existence of the universe is.
It may appear improbable to us, yet the universe exists and unlike God - whatever that's supposed to be - we have abundent evidence for its existence.
Unlike 'God,' a word without references or evidence, we need no faith to accept the reality of the universe. You have exactly the same evidence of God as you have of the universe. You have not personally seen or experienced the universe. You don't know of anything outside your own experience except from what others tell you. You simply choose what you are willing to believe. The only difference is that the belief of the universe beyond your personal experience has not been believed nearly as long, or by as many people as the existence of God. Depends on how you define experience. I've seen the Hubble deep field images. That is a personal experience. Have you been to the telescope and directly seen the images, or have you just seen the images that were posted somewhere? Point is that faith is necessary to believe anything outside one's direct personal experience. It's just a matter of who you believe and what you have faith in.
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
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The probability of the universe existing, the probability of it existing and being so vast, whether by the hand of God or not by the hand of God, is so low that it is close to zero. It is just unbelievable that existence exists - no matter how it came about. Yet we know it does exist. The probability argument and the vastness argument therefore does not swing things in favor of "no god", in fact it swings things in favor of "god". If on the balance of probabilities that god exists, then which god? No one has come up with a better explanation of what constitutes god that what we have in the West. God created the Universe. Who Create God? The believers argument here always ends with the logical fallacy of Special Pleading. No need to go through the who created who argument if you view God as the creative force.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,141 Likes: 9 |
This is all you need to know about faith and proof of the existence of God.
Romans 1
16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, just as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
So the faith we must have is not faith that God exists, He said thats a given by proof of creation and if you still don't believe then you are willfully ignorant and suppressing the truth. So the faith we must have is to believe and accept the birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of His son Jesus the Christ. Don, Read that passage very carefully, then contemplate what you choice of those verses says about YOU. Anyone that thinks Romans is God's word just needs to go to chapter 13 and read the first few verses where he he asserts the civil government is to obeyed as an agent of God for the good. In a court of law a witness caught in a lie is no more accepted as a witness for anything.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
The probability of the universe existing, the probability of it existing and being so vast, whether by the hand of God or not by the hand of God, is so low that it is close to zero. It is just unbelievable that existence exists - no matter how it came about. Yet we know it does exist. The probability argument and the vastness argument therefore does not swing things in favor of "no god", in fact it swings things in favor of "god". If on the balance of probabilities that god exists, then which god? No one has come up with a better explanation of what constitutes god that what we have in the West. God created the Universe. Who Create God? The believers argument here always ends with the logical fallacy of Special Pleading. No need to go through the who created who argument if you view God as the creative force. Of course you want to avoid that argument, because it's one you loose.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,516 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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Especially since the Gospel authors were anonymous and written at least decades after the alleged events. Biographies and other historical books about people and events that existed and took place hundreds of years ago, and even thousands of years ago, are still being written to this day. For example, consider the historical books about the Comanches being discussed on another active thread here on the Campfire. Nobody doubts their historicity or their reliability.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
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Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Because the title of the thread was “Do you believe in god”. I am not anything that you mentioned by your name calling. I wished I had the faith some of you do but I don’t. At least I am honest with myself. Your a good reason why people do not respect “Christians”.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,516 Likes: 2 |
God created the Universe. Who Created God? The believers argument here always ends with the logical fallacy of Special Pleading. So let me get this straight: the universe and everything in it can come from nothing, but a Divine Awareness could not…?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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Because the title of the thread was “Do you believe in god”. I am not anything that you mentioned by your name calling. I wished I had the faith some of you do but I don’t. At least I am honest with myself. Your a good reason why people do not respect “Christians”. Matthew 7:7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." It is not always found in churches, from a neighbor who claims to know about it or a self-proclaimed prophet. But I do feel that in God's own time He will reveal Himself to everyone who truly seeks Him out. I do hope you find such peace and joy in your life. It can begin a walk that is very fulfilling. There has been a promise made to us!
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Joined: Aug 2021
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,911 Likes: 1 |
Like moths to a flame, like flies to sticky strips, like hungry rodents - - - - the atheists, God deniers, Christian-baiters, devil reps and angry others seem to scramble onto threads like this. And, for what reason? Because the title of the thread was “Do you believe in god”. I am not anything that you mentioned by your name calling. I wished I had the faith some of you do but I don’t. At least I am honest with myself. Your a good reason why people do not respect “Christians”. Keep being honest with yourself and keep seeking the truth. God wants people to seek the truth. I believe that if you seek to honestly and truthfully know God, you will.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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God created the Universe. Who Created God? The believers argument here always ends with the logical fallacy of Special Pleading. So let me get this straight: the universe and everything in it can come from nothing, but a Divine Awareness could not…? Did the Universe come from nothing? Do we really know that? And what do you mean by "nothing"?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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