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[quote=milespatton] My father-in-law said the same thing about asbestos. He worked around it all his life and he was fine into his seventies.
Then he died from a very aggressive form of lung cancer.
I'm not saying roundup will kill you, just that a sample of a few means not very much.
/quote]
I read the obituaries in the Little Rock paper every morning. Most of the people in it are younger than me.I have a good friend, since we were five years old, Life long farmer, probably used more roundup, than you and everybody that you know, added together. I have a lot of friends like that, since I live in a farming community. All alive, cancer free. Talk about something that you know about. miles LOL, cancer rates from exposure to chemicals in the environment is something I know about. And what I know is, one person's anecdotes don't mean jack shìt. Anecdotal Science is the best kind. Don't know about best...but.it certainly the most fun. I knew a guy who knew a gal who's granpa's cousin.....................
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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Regarding "farmers" that have used pesticides/herbicides for decades and are cancer free................. Yeah, I've known folks that smoked or chewed tobacco for many decades and didn't get cancer either. Then again, I've known folks like a friend who was in his mid 30's that had a big chunk of his jaw removed, right at the spot he kept his dip, and folks in their 50's with lung cancer from smoking (OK, maybe it was from the formaldehyde in their furniture coverings, or wall insulation) I'm a double survivor, skin cancer most likely from abundant sun exposure (multiple blistering sunburns when I was young) and renal cell carcinoma from who the hell knows. Was it from exposure to pesticides as a kid? I mean they sprayed friggen DDT over neighborhoods, every household I knew of had shaker cans of diazinon and other pesticides on shelves in the garage and they were used everywhere a bug popped up, especially on garden crops. Folks kept them around for years, because "I'll be damned if I'm going to let the government take away something that works. It hasn't killed me yet". Maybe my kidney cancer was from cleaning car parts in gasoline or diesel, in a galvanize pan, with a wire brush and getting all that used oil and solvent on my skin.? Maybe it came from the creek that ran in front of our house that drained our neighborhood and those upstream, some of which had leaky septic systems and some of which had very convenient storm drains in which anything anyone didn't want to deal with went right in the drain? Maybe it came from breathing leaded gas exhaust fumes and playing with pewter "army men"? 20 years of drinking and smoking tobacco? Maybe I go ahold of some paraquat sprayed weed when I was a kid? Too much chlorinated water when I lived in the burbs? I no longer care where it came from, but I'd like to do what I can to keep it from coming back, or from getting a new case, or a different kind of cancer. Cancer sucks. What I'd like is to be informed of what was used on the food I eat. I don't even care if they tell me what the residual level is, maybe for me any level is too much. I'd just like to know it was used. Then I can make an informed decision as to whether I want to purchase it. Which is why I tend to buy local and "organic" when I can, as poor a system as we have in this country at least I have an idea of what's NOT in or on my food. Maybe it's all BS. Listened to a professor, of Population Dynamics, a dude with years of working with numbers and numerous well respected publications, wonder whether the seeming increase in heart disease and cancer rates in developed countries was more attributable to lengthened lifespans due to modern medicine and better nutrition than it was to any kind of inputs to our bodies. The way he put it, a higher percentage of the population died from malnutrition and basic infections and such and never lived long enough for cancer and heart disease to become an issue. Maybe my cancer issues are from living past 30??? You know, cancer is just really great cell growth, maybe my cells just managed to learn to grow better and it wasn't the result of the exposure to all that crap I was exposed to over the years. Believe the science, or believe the anti-science, some of the scheidt they use on your food is nasty crap.....for a reason. It kills scheidt they don't want to live and supposedly lets other stuff live with little or no effect on you................but especially it has a beneficial effect on their bottom line (or they ain't doing it right). All I know, it's my belief I have a right to know what is being sold to me. Hey Jim, I had a big bowl of your favorite miller's oatmeal this morning, from one of your favorite retail outlets. Bob's Red Mill organic steel cut oats from Costco  Bob passed away recently. Like a week or two ago. No mention of glyphosate that I recall.
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"It's a terrible thing when governments send their young men to kill each other." Charles Byrne,WW2 Vet.
On the day Desert Storm began.
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"It's a terrible thing when governments send their young men to kill each other." Charles Byrne,WW2 Vet.
On the day Desert Storm began.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Regarding "farmers" that have used pesticides/herbicides for decades and are cancer free................. Yeah, I've known folks that smoked or chewed tobacco for many decades and didn't get cancer either. Then again, I've known folks like a friend who was in his mid 30's that had a big chunk of his jaw removed, right at the spot he kept his dip, and folks in their 50's with lung cancer from smoking (OK, maybe it was from the formaldehyde in their furniture coverings, or wall insulation) I'm a double survivor, skin cancer most likely from abundant sun exposure (multiple blistering sunburns when I was young) and renal cell carcinoma from who the hell knows. Was it from exposure to pesticides as a kid? I mean they sprayed friggen DDT over neighborhoods, every household I knew of had shaker cans of diazinon and other pesticides on shelves in the garage and they were used everywhere a bug popped up, especially on garden crops. Folks kept them around for years, because "I'll be damned if I'm going to let the government take away something that works. It hasn't killed me yet". Maybe my kidney cancer was from cleaning car parts in gasoline or diesel, in a galvanize pan, with a wire brush and getting all that used oil and solvent on my skin.? Maybe it came from the creek that ran in front of our house that drained our neighborhood and those upstream, some of which had leaky septic systems and some of which had very convenient storm drains in which anything anyone didn't want to deal with went right in the drain? Maybe it came from breathing leaded gas exhaust fumes and playing with pewter "army men"? 20 years of drinking and smoking tobacco? Maybe I go ahold of some paraquat sprayed weed when I was a kid? Too much chlorinated water when I lived in the burbs? I no longer care where it came from, but I'd like to do what I can to keep it from coming back, or from getting a new case, or a different kind of cancer. Cancer sucks. What I'd like is to be informed of what was used on the food I eat. I don't even care if they tell me what the residual level is, maybe for me any level is too much. I'd just like to know it was used. Then I can make an informed decision as to whether I want to purchase it. Which is why I tend to buy local and "organic" when I can, as poor a system as we have in this country at least I have an idea of what's NOT in or on my food. Maybe it's all BS. Listened to a professor, of Population Dynamics, a dude with years of working with numbers and numerous well respected publications, wonder whether the seeming increase in heart disease and cancer rates in developed countries was more attributable to lengthened lifespans due to modern medicine and better nutrition than it was to any kind of inputs to our bodies. The way he put it, a higher percentage of the population died from malnutrition and basic infections and such and never lived long enough for cancer and heart disease to become an issue. Maybe my cancer issues are from living past 30??? You know, cancer is just really great cell growth, maybe my cells just managed to learn to grow better and it wasn't the result of the exposure to all that crap I was exposed to over the years. Believe the science, or believe the anti-science, some of the scheidt they use on your food is nasty crap.....for a reason. It kills scheidt they don't want to live and supposedly lets other stuff live with little or no effect on you................but especially it has a beneficial effect on their bottom line (or they ain't doing it right). All I know, it's my belief I have a right to know what is being sold to me. Hey Jim, I had a big bowl of your favorite miller's oatmeal this morning, from one of your favorite retail outlets. Bob's Red Mill organic steel cut oats from Costco Bob passed away recently. Like a week or two ago. No mention of glyphosate that I recall. Dang, they still gonna sell them steel cut oats I hope. And we use some of his variety flours for making our bread if we can't find it in some other places we get ours from.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
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My wife's nephew died from an aggressive form of prosate cancer. He was a lifelong farmer who was the one that did most of the spraying for a large family farm operation. He told me shortly before he died that if he had it all to over again, he would have been more careful handling chemicals.
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Agent Orange Cheerios…mmm good 😂🤣😂🤣 An ignorant statement. Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. 2,4,5-T manufacturing produced double oxygen bridges called dioxin. Dioxin was responsible for strong carcinogenic properties of the agent orange mix. Glyphosate is not chemically similar to this and the glyphosate residues found in some oat products are of the metabolites (breakdown products) of glyphosate and not glyphosate. Additionally the rates found in those studies of oat products are in the ppt range which is insignificant. As I understood it...the dioxin was a contaminate or was created through faulty processes in the factory in New Zealand. Yes, there and Malaysia, apparently overheating during the process freed up electrons to form the double oxygen bridge. What was the idea of making it there? Just because it was a bit closer? Cheaper? Could they produce it using procedures that were outside regs in the US? I didn't know it was produced in Malaysia. I’m not sure of the reason, probably cheaper. It’s worth noting that the agent orange mix was first used by the British in what was then called Malaya post WWII
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Somebody call Erin Brockavich.
There was a whole town scrooged over by dioxin.
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"It's a terrible thing when governments send their young men to kill each other." Charles Byrne,WW2 Vet.
On the day Desert Storm began.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Somebody call Erin Brockavich.
There was a whole town scrooged over by dioxin. Love Canal?
I am MAGA.
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When you read this article I’m sure you noticed that it says Glyphosate is primarily used prior to planting or during fallow situations?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Somebody call Erin Brockavich.
There was a whole town scrooged over by dioxin. Love Canal? Wrong. It was Times Beach.
I am MAGA.
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Yes, it is used in a percentage of US grain crops. It's used as a discant, if that's the word, to help dry the grains faster. Last time I checked it was used on 20 something percent of US wheat. Don't know the oat percentages. I bet you can google it up. Absolutely. It's not the normal practice. Normally the crop would ripen and weeds wouldn't be a problem. When they need to hasten the process, or weeds are bad enough to be an issue in the combine, the "Dessicate" it. That's a less disturbing way of saying they spar it with plant killing chemicals. And harvest just as soon after spraying as possible. Our current farm practices are based on high yield, low cost, low margins. It's the system farmers need to work in, or around. I'm bound to piss some off. Maybe they operate outside the system, I know Jim is trying hard to be different. Most agriculture is producing the biggest, cheapest, crop possible. Health of consumers is not in the top considerations Wrong glyphosate is NOT a desiccate. It is used to kill weeds. Roundup is a slow killer of weeds. Would need to wait at least a week or so to harvest. Now Paraguat is a desiccate and can combine in 2 -3 days
We might have to be neighbors, but I don’t have to be neighborly. John Chisum
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Agent Orange Cheerios…mmm good 😂🤣😂🤣 An ignorant statement. Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. 2,4,5-T manufacturing produced double oxygen bridges called dioxin. Dioxin was responsible for strong carcinogenic properties of the agent orange mix. Glyphosate is not chemically similar to this and the glyphosate residues found in some oat products are of the metabolites (breakdown products) of glyphosate and not glyphosate. Additionally the rates found in those studies of oat products are in the ppt range which is insignificant. What I find unconvincing about your argument, is the fact that the general public has been told by leading scientists many times that a substance is harmless only to learn later that it was not harmless at all. Using your argument then everything would be unsafe because science cannot be trusted. The truth is the vast majority of things deemed safe are safe. I'm well beyond "trusting science". And I would have said tha 5 years ago. Pure science is trustworthy, as pure Communism would be a good thing. Both run into a common problem, they require people. And so can't exist in the theoretical pure state. When did the last big scientific study not happen due to funding from someone with an interest in the results? The egg board funds a study. The results show that eggs actually are healthy. Monsanto, the epitome of science, tells you exactly how Glyphosate acts and reacts. And it's science. Meanwhile, how much money does Monsanto make from Roundup and Roundup ready seed. I'd fall over dead if they suddenly came out and said, "Glyphosate is dangerous, Roundup Ready seeds have been genetically modified and are dangerous. We need to never use any again and purge them from the supply chain as soon as possible." Don't matter what science might say, Monsanto will never do that. Remember the science, on Big Tobacco's side?
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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I never lived there. Heard about it on the news, when I wasn't working to fund my lavish retirement.
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On the day Desert Storm began.
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They say they can't find any traces of it when applied at the right time....but we don't use it.
Scares the hell out of me. Me too. I retired from USDA eight years ago. The county I started work in had a man die quickly from ingestion of Paraquat. The owner of a farm had a little bit of Paraquat left over and poured the excess into an empty Coke bottle before disposing of the original container for some crazy reason. One of his workers saw the bottle and took a swig, immediately spitting it out and rinsing his mouth out. Too late…the mouth, being a mucus membrane, absorbed some of it and he was dead in a few hours. Knew the farmer well. No idea why he transferred the liquid to a stupid coke bottle.That’s just what lifetime farmers do, never throw away anything that might be of value. Or why someone would just pick up a bottle and drink out of it when they don't really know what is in it. kwg My company sells Gramoxone which is paraquat and one of our training videos is just like that only a CHILD drank it from a coke bottle. Now the paraquat made in the last 10-15 years has a AUTOMATIC PUKE ingredient just for that reason
We might have to be neighbors, but I don’t have to be neighborly. John Chisum
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When I was at the Monsanto plant I asked them when they were going to put it in a dry form so that it would have residual to kill plants that come up after it’s put down.
The scientist informed me they would love to do it but it was impossible since at soon at it touches ground it turns inert and is useless. It kills only plants on contact.
I sprayed paraquat on flax to kill any green plants so it was way easier to combine. That’s the Schitt I would worry about although I have no evidence it is harmful in that scenario. Edk
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Campfire Kahuna
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Glyphosphate doesn't bother me much.
I think the engineering of the basic seed or plant may be a much bigger thing to worry about than round up.
Although I suspect neither is a huge issue.
We live longer now than we ever have.
The drs out there to make money it seems to me. Just like everyone else. Find a fad that someone will pay into.
YMMV
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Agent Orange Cheerios…mmm good 😂🤣😂🤣 An ignorant statement. Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. 2,4,5-T manufacturing produced double oxygen bridges called dioxin. Dioxin was responsible for strong carcinogenic properties of the agent orange mix. Glyphosate is not chemically similar to this and the glyphosate residues found in some oat products are of the metabolites (breakdown products) of glyphosate and not glyphosate. Additionally the rates found in those studies of oat products are in the ppt range which is insignificant. What I find unconvincing about your argument, is the fact that the general public has been told by leading scientists many times that a substance is harmless only to learn later that it was not harmless at all. Using your argument then everything would be unsafe because science cannot be trusted. The truth is the vast majority of things deemed safe are safe. We sprayed agent orange for years on fence lines. Not a single person got cancer that was involved in that spraying. Granted we didn't get wetted out with it either. Many things are not good for us. Many times the amount we would have to take is something that will never happen, to make it bad. Which science do you believe? If you have a feeling then go organic by your own growth with non modified. You may or may not live longer. IMHO after being around medical issues. The most damaging thing you have is your genes.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Was it surplus from Vietnam contaminated with dioxin?
I am MAGA.
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Well golly gee people are prone to believe something and nothing factual can change their mind.
But we don`t bat an eye at something that is proven. Over eating, smocking, consumption of liquid beverages etc.
I smoked for years before I quit. Drinking, yup in my past. Too much sun exposure, been there and done that. I have a lot of DR visits to prove it.
It is interesting to read a thread. Someone will post facts and a page or so later right back to that can`t be true,
A lot of facts available on chemicals but not all will believe them.
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Agent Orange Cheerios…mmm good 😂🤣😂🤣 An ignorant statement. Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. 2,4,5-T manufacturing produced double oxygen bridges called dioxin. Dioxin was responsible for strong carcinogenic properties of the agent orange mix. Glyphosate is not chemically similar to this and the glyphosate residues found in some oat products are of the metabolites (breakdown products) of glyphosate and not glyphosate. Additionally the rates found in those studies of oat products are in the ppt range which is insignificant. What I find unconvincing about your argument, is the fact that the general public has been told by leading scientists many times that a substance is harmless only to learn later that it was not harmless at all. Using your argument then everything would be unsafe because science cannot be trusted. The truth is the vast majority of things deemed safe are safe. We sprayed agent orange for years on fence lines. Not a single person got cancer that was involved in that spraying. Granted we didn't get wetted out with it either. Many things are not good for us. Many times the amount we would have to take is something that will never happen, to make it bad. Which science do you believe? If you have a feeling then go organic by your own growth with non modified. You may or may not live longer. IMHO after being around medical issues. The most damaging thing you have is your genes. If I have a choice, I would just rather have my oats without poison please.
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