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OP
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Have any opinions changed yet?
No?
Just checking. The supporters of the officers who did the beating still don't know a key detail about the diabetic who was beaten. Would that key detail change the opinion of anyone ‘here’? If so, why not share? Not really. It would just cause the supporters of the police who did the beating to lobby for private citizens to be more easily identifiable. Some sort of always visible branding/tattoo, markings sewn on clothing....that kind of thing. Granted, I don’t log on here as much as some. Are there folks here who have advocated for that sort of thing? I certainly could have missed a thread or two where it was discussed. If you remember which threads I’ll go read them. I didn't say there was such a thread. The Spruce Pines officers' actions seem to be well received here. It seems likely those officers may have been totally confused about who they were assaulting. If so, it seems reasonable they would want a foe conspicuously marked so they wouldn't beat a friend. Their supporters would, of course, want them to get anything they want. Less likely scenario, diabetes guy bruised their egos at some point. Told them no, called them out, or something of the sort. If he snubbed the officers in some way, that would make the beating even more popular with their supporters.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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I'll normally back the cops, almost without question...
What kind of Barney Fife's does Spruce Pine have on their force? I'll normally back the cops, almost without question... THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!! Because almost every local police force in the USA has at least one Barney Fife! Local cops are usually uneducated egos with a badge and something to prove.
I sure could go for some $2.50/gal gas and a mean tweet!
NRA Benefactor member, disgruntled.
Life member: Firearms Owners Against Crime.
Life member: GOA
Member: RMEF
TRUMP 2020
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I drove home the other day with my blood sugar at 44. Felt shìtty but still fully functional. Never understood the people with such a low tolerance to lows that they absolutely loose their mind and control.
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll normally back the cops, almost without question...
But not in this instance. I'm a diabetic, so I can see being in this picture... having your blood sugar levels drop quickly... I've had my drop to where my Blood Sugar level was 30.....which is WAAY in the danger zone... and you need to get sugar in your system quickly.
What kind of Barney Fife's does Spruce Pine have on their force? EMTs should have been called. Evidently no one knew what a diabetic incident was, or they would have called EMS. But I'd bet that they sure know what one is now.....
If the victim decides NOT to Sue, the Spruce Pine P.D. need to thank their lucky stars. I'd admit if I'd have been the diabetic in that situation, I WOULD NOT sue the Police Dept or their officers for their actions or lack of action from not knowing what to do, or being able to identify the situation they were called upon. So if you were having a diabetic episode and a person working as a plumber or logger came upon you and performed an emergency tracheotomy, would you sue them? We've found the Blue Backer. A plumber or a logger would probably call 911. I think that makes them smarter than those cops.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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I drove home the other day with my blood sugar at 44. Felt shìtty but still fully functional. Never understood the people with such a low tolerance to lows that they absolutely loose their mind and control. Low blood sugar Information | Mount Sinai - New York https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/diseases-conditions/low-blood-sugar#:~:text=More%20severe%20symptoms%2C%20such%20as,or%202.2%20mmol%2FL). "More severe symptoms, such as unclear thinking or seizure, occur when the blood sugar is much lower (less than 40 mg/dL or 2.2 mmol/L)."
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Joined: Jan 2023
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Campfire Regular
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I'll normally back the cops, almost without question...
But not in this instance. I'm a diabetic, so I can see being in this picture... having your blood sugar levels drop quickly... I've had my drop to where my Blood Sugar level was 30.....which is WAAY in the danger zone... and you need to get sugar in your system quickly.
What kind of Barney Fife's does Spruce Pine have on their force? EMTs should have been called. Evidently no one knew what a diabetic incident was, or they would have called EMS. But I'd bet that they sure know what one is now.....
If the victim decides NOT to Sue, the Spruce Pine P.D. need to thank their lucky stars. I'd admit if I'd have been the diabetic in that situation, I WOULD NOT sue the Police Dept or their officers for their actions or lack of action from not knowing what to do, or being able to identify the situation they were called upon. So if you were having a diabetic episode and a person working as a plumber or logger came upon you and performed an emergency tracheotomy, would you sue them? We've found the Blue Backer. A plumber or a logger would probably call 911. I think that makes them smarter than those cops. Seafire said he would give the cops a free pass since they chose to act outside their level of training and knowledge. I was asking if he would give a free pass to other occupational groups if they chose to act outside of their level of training and knowledge.
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We had a young girl in our area that was a brittle diabetic, blind, non-compliant and mad at the world. She would bottom out, we'd get there and learned real fast that she needed 2 vials of D50. The first would bring her up and she would be like a mountain lion in a leg trap. We would normally give one vial and reevaluate and rarely saw anyone that needed 2. We just went ahead and slammed 2, she would wake up pissed but not with claws out.
We also had another one, a man in police custody. He fought like a tiger too but was loopy. They did not want us near him but once we see him we have a duty to act. When we finally convinced the cops to let us check him out his blood sugar was real low. He couldn't apologize enough to the cops. He was like a Jekyll and Hyde case.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Graham v. Connor
Officers were found to have acted reasonably when force was used on a combative man who was experiencing a diabetic crisis. This case established the “reasonable officer” standard. Would a reasonable officer with similar training act similarly given the totality of circumstances? If so, the actions are objectively reasonable given the totality of circumstances.
An officer can only react to what is know. At the time. Additional information gathered after the event is inadmissible because the event resulting in force can only be judged within the scope of what was known.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
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How is one supposed to know when a violent, irrational individual is actually a diabetic having an episode?
Serious question.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy.
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Campfire Regular
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Graham v. Connor
Officers were found to have acted reasonably when force was used on a combative man who was experiencing a diabetic crisis. This case established the “reasonable officer” standard. Would a reasonable officer with similar training act similarly given the totality of circumstances? If so, the actions are objectively reasonable given the totality of circumstances.
An officer can only react to what is know. At the time. Additional information gathered after the event is inadmissible because the event resulting in force can only be judged within the scope of what was known. That's why the officers would like to see non-le permanently marked in some way so they don't have something happen like this. And le can't be expected to know they shouldn't steal also....which means they are ok to steak. Jessop v. City of Fresno, No. 17-16756 (9th Cir. 2019) :: Justia https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/17-16756/17-16756-2019-09-04.html"The panel held that at the time of the incident, there was no clearly established law holding that officers violate the Fourth or Fourteenth Amendment when they steal property seized pursuant to a warrant. For that reason, the City Officers were entitled to qualified immunity."
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Joined: Jan 2023
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Campfire Regular
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Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol.
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Joined: Jan 2023
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Campfire Regular
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How is one supposed to know when a violent, irrational individual is actually a diabetic having an episode?
Serious question. When did he get violent?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
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Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol. It appears that you're the only one here advocating for 'markings'. Thanks to the legislative process, you have the ability to contact your local reps and attempt to make it so. It will be a good test to see how many of your local LEOs (the ones you believe support you and your markings) agree. Good luck with your lesson in civics.
Last edited by NH K9; 04/06/24.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol. It appears that you're the only one here advocating for 'markings'. Thanks to the legislative process, you have the ability to contact your local reps and attempt to make it so. It will be a good test to see how many of your local LEOs (the ones you believe support you and your markings) agree. Good luck with your lesson in civics. He will do nothing. He is too lazy to take the time to write an email to his states police testing and certification board about an "unconstitutional training program" that he had the time to bìtch about incessantly. That's what he wants to do, bìtch.
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Some people in the UK have medical bracelets - informs ambulance / paramedics of conditions and allergies to medicines. Think they are stainless steel with a red heart logo on them. They open like a locket and have I formation inside them
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
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Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol. It appears that you're the only one here advocating for 'markings'. Thanks to the legislative process, you have the ability to contact your local reps and attempt to make it so. It will be a good test to see how many of your local LEOs (the ones you believe support you and your markings) agree. Good luck with your lesson in civics. I don't want to be marked, but I think your colleagues will want that. Had they known what he was they would have never laid a hand on him.
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Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,071
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,071 |
Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol. It appears that you're the only one here advocating for 'markings'. Thanks to the legislative process, you have the ability to contact your local reps and attempt to make it so. It will be a good test to see how many of your local LEOs (the ones you believe support you and your markings) agree. Good luck with your lesson in civics. He will do nothing. He is too lazy to take the time to write an email to his states police testing and certification board about an "unconstitutional training program" that he had the time to bìtch about incessantly. That's what he wants to do, bìtch. 1) I don't want a tattoo or other identifying markings. 2) "This training you all enjoy attending is promoting the violating of rights." "Yeah we know. It doesn't curtail our special priveleges. Why do you think we enjoy it so much?"
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,370
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,370 |
How is one supposed to know when a violent, irrational individual is actually a diabetic having an episode?
Serious question. It just depends on what the patient is trying to do. If he is basically secure and not hurting anyone then you take the time to assess and negotiate with him. If not..he would be restrained. Then you would assess.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787 |
Yup, and that "Figuring out what is happening" part is the hard part of Emergency Services work. Most times, you have time to do the math and make an assessment. But other times you just react, because you have no time. Hundredths of a second to: see and evaluate that action, then decide what to do, set that action in motion, evaluate the action taken, hope for the best. Reaction is always slower the action. Our arm chair experts can speak to this, since they have been there done that and received a participation trophy. If private citizens were marked for ID in some way this wouldn't have happened, although that might have resulted in his death if they assumed he was just inebriated and gave him alcohol. It appears that you're the only one here advocating for 'markings'. Thanks to the legislative process, you have the ability to contact your local reps and attempt to make it so. It will be a good test to see how many of your local LEOs (the ones you believe support you and your markings) agree. Good luck with your lesson in civics. I don't want to be marked, but I think your colleagues will want that. Had they known what he was they would have never laid a hand on him. I've noticed you utilize phrases such as 'it seems' and 'I think' in lieu of actually having knowledge or documentation. I can say definitively that what you 'think' is 100% incorrect as it applies to my colleagues and peers. In fact, such markings have never come up in discussion and I don't know a single copper who would want such an abomination. Are you sure you don't want then for some reason? You formulated the idea rather quickly.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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